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No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/22/2006 9:43:32 PM   
mistoferin


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Found this interesting. Thoughts?

http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/news/local/13837466.htm

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When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/23/2006 4:25:01 AM   
gbgirlz2003


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I think she needs to be sent back to her Master for some real punishment.

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/23/2006 5:32:57 AM   
Lashra


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I think if he truly hit her in the head as she said, it is HE who needs a Mistress/Master to hit him upside the head. No one deserves to be abused.


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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/23/2006 5:36:35 AM   
PenelopePitstop


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I wonder if a service could be set up whereby lifestyle couples can go and get their slavery contracts compiled, checked for possible areas of contention and ironed out in a realistic way. Although this would be a very clinical way of doing things. But sometimes third parties are useful.

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/23/2006 6:11:45 AM   
TheHungryTiger


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from the article
quote:

Webb and Meyer met a few years ago via the Internet. Webb moved in with Meyer a couple of years ago and lived with him until Jan. 11.
Anyone wanna form a betting pool on how long exactly it was between the time they met online and the time they moved in together?

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/23/2006 7:05:15 AM   
Chaingang


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Hmmm, this story seems to be the same one as here:
http://www.collarchat.com/BDSM_Lifestyle%2F_Domestic_Abuse_in_News/m_264978/tm.htm

They met approx. five years ago and moved in together approx. two years ago. So that part is settled.

There are differences in the various versions of the story (even in the same article!) as to whether she was struck or pushed, which could be the same things depending on who tells the story. But when struck or pushed, she then fell against a door and further injured herself.

Sounds like some kind of quarrel that became physical - which is a kind of carelessness that I place squarely at the feet of the dominant party in this relationship. Interestingly, who the dominant party actually was is another disputed matter.

Sigh.

I have had more to say in the other thread.

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/23/2006 7:14:43 PM   
MstrssLace


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Well since I am the person in question, and as usual, people offer some pretty negative commentaries without knowing facts, I thought it'd be kind of appropriate if I came and responded. Of course, there's always the possiblity that the moderators will remove me. <shrug> I'm willing to risk it, if it brings the topic of Domestic Violence in our lifestyle, out in the open. Cause folks...I'm not the only one.
Let's see, where do I begin? Perhaps by stating that it wasn't myself nor my attorney who called the media, and turned this into a circus by dragging in the BDSM element of our lives. He claimed our contract gave him the right to do "anything he wanted"...including knock me unconscious when he was, in his own words in court "out of control". He was abusive...he hid behind the lifestyle...he gave BDSM and the loving relationships within it a black eye with the media...then he slunk away with a "no comment".

Fact was, I had been repeatedly abused, and yeah...I'm sure some of you "lovely" people will blame me. Fine. I accept that I loved him, gave him too much of the benefit of the doubt, and feared leaving in part because his elderly and disabled mother was also completely at his "mercy"...and unable to defend herself. So I took a few beatings on her behalf too. In the course of almost two years, there were four concussions that I can recall...and never was I allowed to receive medical treatment. By the time I realized that this wasn't a consensual BDSM relationship anymore, but an abusive one, and not even a particularly creatively abusive one, I was so ashamed and embarrassed. I should have *known* better.
But hey, let's just stick to the allegations and comments made here. <smiles> And I'm trying not to be bitter towards the reactions I've gotten...but it's not easy.
Hmmm....Oh yes...gbgirlz2003 says she believes I should be sent back to my Master for some real punishment. Interesting. See, not once did my lawyer ever mention the play, or the marks resulting from either play, or punishment. Those weren't at issue. When I'd screw up, I owned up to it...and asked for, and sometimes received disciplinary actions. Through those, I sought forgiveness and defusing a volatile person's rage. So if I got five, or ten, or twenty swats with the punishment paddle, I didnt' complain. Those were things I agreed to. Like it or not, I honored my promise to accept his punishment. Nor did the whip and knife marks from play get used against him....because they weren't abuse. So I suppose some could think that I deserve to be sent back and beaten in the head some more....not going to happen, but hey...you're entitled to your opinion. <smiles> Who knows? You might even contact him and hit it off. He's always looking for the next slave.
Anyway...on to the next comment. TheHungryTiger snidely comments about the length of time between when we met, and when we moved in together. What the article doesn't say, is that we met online yes...but not as Dom/sub. Not as Domme/sub. We were both dominants, we met, enjoyed each other's company, became friends, casual lovers, etc. Often, he would call me up and ask advice about dealing with subs. No biggie. I respected what I saw at the time, even if he did seem to posture a bit. I'd say that knowing someone for three years as a friend before becoming their housemate might not qualify me for a complete idiot. And when he approached me to share his home, it *was* as housemates. He was paid rent and utilities, as well as getting his housework done in the beginning. It didn't start out to be a romantic relationship.
And Chaingang....yes, you did seem to take an interest in the article. You were actually even reserved and balanced. Thank you for that. You pointed out that it's inconclusive whether I was struck or pushed. True. See, I was attacked from behind as I went into my bedroom. I don't know what hit me, because I was attacked while my back was turned. I don't know if it was his fist, an object....and since there were no witnesses (men seldom abuse with witnesses), it's my word against his...and I admit that I don't know what he hit me with. I also don't know what knocked me out for sure, because I don't recall hitting the floor. I do remember being knocked in the back of the neck/head....friends saw the bruises...I remember being knocked through the dog-gate, into the door....I don't recall hitting the floor. I had a few memories after that...of being kicked in the stomach, called the C word, told to get up and get out or be killed....screamed at for "making him do it"....things like that. But you see, I couldn't stay awake. I tried, because I wanted nothing more than to run. But I couldn't do it. When I finally DID wake up four hours later, my first thought was to contact the nursing home and make sure the social worker there protected his mom from any backlash. Not real rational, I suppose...but I was dizzy, couldn't focus my vision, was nauseated, had some serious body aches. So I can forgive myself for thinking of his mom first, even if it didn't make sense at the time.
"Sounds like some sort of quarrel that became physical". Good observation. It was always a quarrel that became physical. From the first time to the last....When he was banging my head off the wall and threatening to "bury me" in front of my daughter (20 years old), when he was screaming at me in the hearing range of the home health workers (they were upstairs so didn't see anything)...you know...the "I'm going to f'ing kill you you c*nt" type of thing. Yeah it was always a quarrel that became physical. But why? Nothing I did worked....trying to talk things out...becoming quiet....eyes down, kneeling....prostrating myself on the floor, waiting. Nothing ever seemed the right thing at the right time to assuage the rage. And what was the rage about? Wearing the wrong skirt. Crying once when my daughter wasn't allowed to see me before she moved to California. Once it was simply because he'd had a bad morning...stepped in dog poop, missed the toilet when he peed....and he needed someone to hate and rage on. Why the rage? I always submitted to discipline if it was needed....whether I liked it or not. <shrug> I lost myself trying to be a good slave to him, and prove to him how worthy he was of love...hoping it would fix whatever was damaged inside. I was wrong. The part that's a good person....the part of him that was my friend....who could make me giggle and laugh and think and stand in awe of him....that part's pretty much obliterated by the tyrranical little control junkie who doesn't know what he wants, and is frustrated by not being happy with what he created. Oh...and who was the dominant? He was supposed to be. I was Domme for going on 20 years before becoming involved with him. He didn't "turn me"....I fell in love with a friend. I wanted to please that friend, and be with him, so I surrendered what I was, what I felt I could surrender, and I gave myself up to the fact of serving him. And I did it to the best of my ability. Many people have told me that he was very "submissive" in the past to women, and resented that. Perhaps if I'd tried to take control and do the guiding, things would have been different....but that wouldn't have been honoring the vows we made to each other.
And speaking of the contract. The agreement had been to destroy it when we split up. He didn't do that...instead, he used it to justify domestic violence. And by the way, look up "Domestic Violence" and some of the signs and symptoms. By the time I read the list, I was 20 months into the relationship, and was horrified to see so many signs that fit. Isolation, mental abuse, decimation of self-esteem, demanding dependency. What started out as an intelligent, consensual, thought-out contractual BDSM relationship went south, and became very abusive mentally and emotionally on a daily basis...and with frightening frequency, on a physical basis.
I was asked once by him "If I'm abusive, why do you stay???" I told him "Because I love you Master". And I did. Abuse, and refusing to take it anymore, doesn't kill the love. I really wish it did.
Now....on to just how "stupid" I was. I trusted this friend with my life. I gave 100%, denied him nothing...held nothing back. When he hated my talking on the computer, or even owning a computer, mine was given to my former foster son. When he pointed out that "property doesn't own property", I willingly signed my car title over to him. <smiles> He assured me I would be taken care of for transportation...we had other vehicles....so when my car was given (with my blessing) to his stepson, I wasn't worried. Clothing (Domme clothes he hated on me) were given away to stripper and barmaid friends of his. I was on call 24/7. I cared for his home, cared for his mother, his extended family, his finances, everything that required attention, I did. He didn't want me working? Not a problem. I stayed home and isolated. He allowed me to work briefly....again not a problem...and every penny of my wages went to him. It wasn't stupid at the time, or in my eyes. It was how a relationship was supposed to be. Together...not this separate stuff.
When I met him, I was not in the least a masochistic. I offered to be trained to accept pain as a token of my love and respect for him, and my desire to please him. So you can sit in smug judgment, or you can ask yourself if you honestly believed with every fiber of your being, that the person you were with was trustworthy and your soulmate....what would you deny him/her? Who doesn't want someone who will give their all?
Blame me for not leaving the relationship....it's pretty typical for abuse victims not to leave the first few times....but hey...go ahead if it feels better, and blame me.
Blame me for protecting his mom when I could have just fled. She has dementia, and can't protect herself...and at the end, before I could get her into a long term nursing facility, it was getting pretty scary to listen to his screaming at her and threatening her...but I *could* have just left her and fended for myself. So blame me for that.
Blame me for signing a contract and an indemnification letter to protect someone I loved from ERRONEOUS prosecution for consensual play. It was never intended to protect him from prosecution for actual abuse...only from the misperceptions we know the vanilla world can have of our ways.
But do not blame me please, for standing up and asking for the same protection that every other battered woman is entitled to. Even if you think I was foolish, or stupid, or a lousy slave....that does not entitle ANYONE to batter and abuse. The cops told me once, there's not a thing I could have done to justify his hitting me. Wish I'd listened then.

Well....I finally listened to friends who begged me not to slink away in shame. Who begged me to not let him continue getting away with abuse after abuse after abuse. I'm not his first victim. This wasn't the first time someone sought an order of protection because they feared him. And I won't be his last victim. But hopefully, I'm going to be the last one who remains silent. The last one who feels guilty for having been with him.
There were many issues my freebie / legal aid atty didn't question him about. History of psychiatric problems. Former orders of protection. Why he was banned by the local BDSM organization from their events. Abuse of other subs... And so on.

And as for me? I fled the state four days after the plea for an order of protection was denied. I'm trying to find an atty who can help me appeal from halfway across the country. See, I brought the dirty laundry to light...and I believed the threats. Enough to run. And what did I get to leave with? Did I manage to "take him"? LOL I left with four suitcases of clothes...mostly clothes that I had come into the relationship with. Nothing else. No money, no job, no computer, no car...none of the things I came into the home with. But I got to keep my life....for now.
Sorry folks, but I didn't open this can of worms. I will, however, take the opportunity offered, to get my side out.
I *was* "Slave2MyLeatherUrLace"....now...I'm Jean.

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/23/2006 7:32:54 PM   
mistoferin


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quote:

Sorry folks, but I didn't open this can of worms. I will, however, take the opportunity offered, to get my side out.


And I'm very glad you did. I didn't open this thread to "Open a can of worms". I opened it because I wanted to get some commentary on what others thought....before I gave my own thoughts. If you will look back through my posts to these message boards, you will see that I fight very strongly against the issues of Domestic Violence. I was a Domestic Violence counselor for many years...and I am also a survivor.

What amazed me about the article was that this judge based his decision it seems, upon the weight of a contract which is essentially illegal. I don't believe that his decision reflected that he had at all tried to understand the lifestyle the contract represented so that he could make an informed decision, for if he had he would understand that this lifestyle is NOT about abuse...nor should it be used as an alibi for it.

I was hoping that someone else would pick up on that aspect of it. Actually, I was hoping that it might enlighten those who are newer to this lifestyle about making commitments too quickly....not that I am implying that is what you indeed did.

I am glad that you came forward with your side of the story. I think it is important for people to realize that while this lifestyle may be the answer to all of their dreams...it can also be their worst nightmare. There are certainly many abusers in Doms clothing out there. The fact that a judge just gave one permission to continue should give everyone in this lifestyle pause.

I wish you all the best in getting your life back in order and I am sorry if my posting caused you grief....that was never my intent.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/23/2006 7:56:20 PM   
PenelopePitstop


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I don't know what to say... when one reads the news it's easy to treat it at arms length and forget that it could be any one of us.

Thank you for taking the time to fill us in, and I hope it was a positive experience for you to let all this out and not a painful one.

I feel so lucky, I was with someone who used my tendencies (I wasn't fully 'out' back then but some things you can't hide) as an excuse for a degree of domestic violence, but it was nothing on the scale that you have experienced. If it had been I would have killed myself - or him. You have been so strong.

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/23/2006 8:16:21 PM   
Slipstreme


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Wow. When I read the article I was thinking. "Oh not another one of these subs up and leaving and calling it abuse." Unfortunately the article makes no real mention of anything actually being abusive, aside from being hit in the head, which is never a good thing. Some people however, enjoy it for some reason, so I figured; if that is how you played, so be it. It is such a dry, nondescriptive article it is hard to really know what is going on, regardless of slave contract or not. From such articles it is hard to tell whether the people they are about are crying wolf, or are really in distress.

I really hope you and the people he has abused in the past can find the justice you seek. Good luck getting your life back together. Hopefully he will find himself behind bars soon enough.

I really wish abusers would stop waving the S&M flag over what it is they do, but they will hide behind anything that can afford them protection. Sadly, a relationship that condones consentual violence will do that, because consent and nonconsent are so hard to distinguish against in court.

Glad we could hear your side of the story.

< Message edited by Slipstreme -- 2/23/2006 8:18:16 PM >


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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/23/2006 10:21:40 PM   
Chaingang


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
What amazed me about the article was that this judge based his decision it seems, upon the weight of a contract which is essentially illegal. I don't believe that his decision reflected that he had at all tried to understand the lifestyle the contract represented so that he could make an informed decision, for if he had he would understand that this lifestyle is NOT about abuse...nor should it be used as an alibi for it.


Hmmm...I think I disagree with this at least in part. I don't disagree that the contract is not legally binding, I disagree in that I think it does show the intent of both parties to live a Dom/sub relationship whether it is legally binding or not. At the heart of any contract is what is called a "meeting of the minds" or "mutual assent," so that element is present in the "slave contract."

While the various BDSM lifestyles are not about abuse, you have to allow that it's very hard for an outsider to judge that fact.

What if I man puts you on a table, gases you unconscious, cuts open up your body, and does things to your insides? Is that assault or is that an operation being performed by a surgeon - and for which you probably signed some kind of consent form? What if a man puts you in a chair and works at your teeth with metal instruments and drills? Is that assault or is it just the dentist repairing a cavity in your mouth?

If a "slave contract" stipulates that one party may strike the other party more or less at will - how does one distinguish between behavior that has been consented to and behavior that is more along the lines of abuse? In my view, there would be no way to tell the difference from outside the relationship.

So there you have it. Without a contract the dominant party risks everything because the other party can always claim abuse in the relationship - and what proof is there to the contrary? With the contract the submissive party risks being in an abusive relationship and having no legal remedies because of the presumed consent factor.

It's a pickle.

I don't like the idea of abuse any more than anyone else, but I don't like so much of the onus just automatically being on the Dom either (which is legally how it is in actuality). It's all too easy for any sub to become disgruntled and cry abuse if things don't go her way. In fact, I would say that such a relationship is fertile ground for blackmail if a sub wants to get over on her dom.

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/24/2006 6:49:21 AM   
TheHungryTiger


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quote:

And by the way, look up "Domestic Violence" and some of the signs and symptoms. By the time I read the list, I was 20 months into the relationship, and was horrified to see so many signs that fit. Isolation, mental abuse, decimation of self-esteem, demanding dependency.
Two very good ones .....

http://www2.recoverycentral.org/tests/testcode.html (This one I used to have linked on the splash enter/exit warning page on my website)

http://www.recoveryresources.org/codependency.html

Another that is of (sopmewhat) my own making is the following: Warning signs of a potentially unsafe master .....

1)Extreme obsessiveness regarding the master resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2)Individual identity and master as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the slaves mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the master continues and deepens.

3)Whenever the master is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

4)Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the master in personal behavior.

5)Dependency upon the master for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without masters involvement.

6)Hyperactivity centered on the masters agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

7)A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

8)Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the master.

9)Anything the master does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

10)Former slaves are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

The reason I say somewhat of my making is that I took a list that was warning signs of being in a religious cult and just replaced the word "cult leader" with "master".

Information control is the single common thread that lets one person take advantage of another person. This is true not only in domestic violence cases and codependency but is true in religious cults as well. Being uninformed puts people at risk.

Now I know this is cruel for me to say, but I do believe that you were not informed. My instinct was to assume that this was because the relationship was “rushed”. I didn't assume that because of anything directly from the article. But I have seen it happen way to many times that people will “jump in with both feat” into a relationship before they are fully informed. Heck, I have even made the mistake myself of rushing a new relationship. I think its true of any alternative sexuality. As soon as people realize their not alone, they jump at the first thing that passes their way. (How does the old joke go? What do you call two lesbians in a U-Haul truck? The second date.)

I now knot that assumption was wrong. You didn't “rush” into things. However, the fact that you didn't know about his history of abuse, nor of him being bared from local BDSM groups still have me thinking that you went into this uninformed, even if your lack of info wasn't because of how quickly you moved.

I am not saying you are stupid. I am not saying you “deserve what you got”. I have been round and round with religious cults so much that I know the people that get involved with them are not idiots and are not deserving of the treatment they get. Im sorry if my post came across that way ..... but I do stick with what I said. All too often folks that rush headlong into relationships without being informed wind up in bad situations.

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/24/2006 7:05:47 AM   
MstrssLace


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<sigh> Chaingang...The contract clearly stipulated that punishment would be given as HE deemed necessary...and it was. Most of the time, he'd rather just rage and get angry and fight like a vanilla than to simply correct the mistake, discipline and move on. But in case it wasn't clear, the contract also very clearly specified that discipline and punishment would NEVER be handled when the "master" was angry or "out of control"...and again, in court, in spite of the fact it didn't make it into the newspaper, he admitted under cross examination that he was both...angry and out of control.
There was also an indemnification clause, concerning bondage, even involuntary bondage. See, I was trying to protect my master from the cops, should anything ever be misconstrued. I loved this man so much, that it seemed more right to put myself in harm's way and at risk, than for him to be worried about it. But never, at any time, in the contract or the clause, did I say that I gave consent to abusive behaviors, loss of consciousness, or any crime. You can NOT consent to a crime. Doesn't hold up. And what he did wasn't play, it wasn't discipline that I'm complaining about. It was assault. Good god, what will it take for you to understand that? A corpse? Because I'm sure if unchecked, he will someday provide one.

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/24/2006 9:41:58 AM   
Chaingang


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MstrssLace:

I come in peace.

I am going to quote myself from the other thread on this subject. I don't disagree with you and it is now contextually important to make the same points I made in the other thread here again:

...

On the other hand, punching a woman so that she lands against a door and is knocked out is battery worthy of a charge that should stick if the act is uncontested. Classic situation: you shove or hit someone causing them to lose balance and injure themselves in an even more serious manner than you intended by hitting themselves on some subsequent object. Seriously uncool thing to do to anyone, esp. someone in your care.

Personal rule: never strike anyone in anger. Violence is for premeditated activities (e.g. BDSM) or for self-defense only. Even discipline should be carried out as a premeditated act and without anger - you do it because it is instructive not because it's an emotional release of anger.

...

I hope that clarifies my position. I am not in any way in favor abuse. I was simply trying to make a point about how hard it is to understand WIITWD from outside this subculture. BTW, you can consent to a crime - that was the whole point of my doctor examples. You just aren't thinking of those acts as assaults because most people don't think of them that way either. Anyway, I hope you don't think I am trying to argue against you. I don't see my comments that way at all. I am most certainly not in favor of the kind of relationship you have described and I am sorry if you found yourself the victim of an abusive relationship.

A slave contract has no legal standing in general, but even the "pretend" contracts members of the BDSM community sometimes use should probably contain a list of items specifically off limits like blows to the head, slapping or shoving or pushing outside of the context of a scene, acting in anger, etc. Maybe even some of the symptoms of abuse should be listed out as a statement in favor of greater balance - as a check against possible abuse from inside the relationship. One step further, maybe some acts that would trigger a protective order from a court of law should be enumerated in there somewhere too.

Lastly, please let's not get personal. I know it's your life we are talking about but I am just making some comments here in the abstract. I sure as hell don't know the truth of what went on inside your relationship and I don't pretend to.

=)





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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 2/27/2006 11:26:25 AM   
MstrssLace


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Chaingang, I didn't intend to make this personal, or shut down conversation about this topic. My apologies if you felt I was making this "personal". I'll let this conversation string go where it wants to go...My two cents are here, and any who wish to have further information can simply email me directly here on CollarMe.

Thanks,

Jean

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RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 3/2/2006 4:54:06 PM   
Jaird


Posts: 3
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
I know what abuse is, I also know what Real BDSM is.
What you went through Jean was abuse.
*shrugs*
I also know a little of what the man is about. Although I can Not put myself in his place at any time in my life.
Sorry you went through this type of a relationship.
Not all of us are like that how ever.

Jaird

(in reply to MstrssLace)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 3/6/2006 2:34:44 PM   
KHRAG


Posts: 9
Joined: 3/1/2006
Status: offline
Seems to me, he is a man (and I use that term loosely) who doesn't know himself. He is weak of mind (yes they can appear very intelligent) and character. You suffered at his hands, of that there can be no doubt.

To those that say she needs more punishment or something along those lines, would you say to a woman whose husband had just given her a black eye, that maybe she should do as he tells her? Would you tell a 9 year old with a broken arm that she deserved it because her daddy was angry? Would you say that a rape victim had it coming because she was married to her rapist? People who think that way are as much of the problem as the abusers.

What happened here, even if you believe his side of things, was abuse. Attacking someone from behind (be it push or punch) is cowardly and not at all punitive. How can a person learn from a punishment when they don't even see it coming?

(in reply to Jaird)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 3/6/2006 7:18:04 PM   
theladysamantha


Posts: 2
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
Could the Judge have taken into account the Contract --- not for the Legality of the Contract but rather for the Intent of the Parties to the Contract to Agree to this Physical Interaction such that the threshold to the requirements to the ordering of an order restraining the ctions of another through the Civil Law method to restrain the liberties of another individual -- not a criminal action to restrain another individual's rights -- was not crossed?

This would answer the question of Why did the Judge even refer to a non-binding Contract?

and Why did the Judge "side" with the rights of the accused rather than protect the injured party?

Just my 2 cents

Everyone be well and stay safe.

Samantha

(in reply to KHRAG)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 3/7/2006 8:02:00 AM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline
He might have had experience with a case where the reverse was true: that the submissive had claimed abuse when the relationship run foul and an innocent Dom got more than they ever bargained for.

From what I've heard it is near impossible to prove or disprove consent in the court of law.

However, due to the nature of the altercation, it seems strange that he didn't see it as abusive. I don't know of anyone who would consent to that kind of physical activity.

_____________________________

Living the Dichotomy

Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to theladysamantha)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: No protective order for woman who signed contract... - 3/7/2006 9:59:32 AM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: theladysamantha

Could the Judge have taken into account the Contract --- not for the Legality of the Contract but rather for the Intent of the Parties to the Contract to Agree to this Physical Interaction such that the threshold to the requirements to the ordering of an order restraining the ctions of another through the Civil Law method to restrain the liberties of another individual -- not a criminal action to restrain another individual's rights -- was not crossed?

This would answer the question of Why did the Judge even refer to a non-binding Contract?

and Why did the Judge "side" with the rights of the accused rather than protect the injured party?

Just my 2 cents

Everyone be well and stay safe.

Samantha


As i understand from reading what she had to say here, i think it was the 'intent of the contract' that the Judge ruled on. Therefore, imo, the signing of a such a contract should be something more than, 'it can't be held as a legal, binding contract'. That for some may be a safety net that is being taken away. It only shows to me that if i sign any contract, from a car purchase to signing anyway my rights as a slave or owned property, i better be darned sure i know exactly what i am signing and that i am entering it with the knowledge that it is legal, binding contract...not to be signed lightly *because it can't be enforced*.

Just my opinion.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to theladysamantha)
Profile   Post #: 20
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