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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/19/2009 7:31:48 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

If it's about players, they don't need love; if it's about your partner, love is essential.

Really?

I know quite a few people...who ARE partners...that would find your response insulting.

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/19/2009 8:42:29 AM   
Daes


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Does He love me? Yes, I believe He does... almost to the point where I feel almost in awe of it. I do wonder though what his opinion on this thread would be. I can never know what it feels like to beat someone you love to tears. Interesting thread, Im enjoying the posts ^_^

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/19/2009 11:35:20 AM   
aldompdx


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A bargain of giving to get "love" -- i.e., manipulative taking -- has nothing to do with it.

Every act of every person is motivated by the pursuit of fulfillment -- love. By definition, relational interaction in pursuit of fulfillment is all about experiencing love. Most people mistakenly associate the source of love as beyond themself. Love arises in the only place it is ever felt, your very own heart. Unconditional sharing of one's own love does not require attachment, it requires awareness and openness.

If one does not seek fulfillment in interacting with another person, then they are not interacting in relation to another person. Thus in the context of BDSM interaction, one is an ultimate narcissist who cannot even perceive the existence of another, to whom they relate and interact. According to DSM-IV and ICD-10, that is a psychological disorder.

< Message edited by aldompdx -- 8/19/2009 11:39:06 AM >

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/19/2009 11:57:24 AM   
gusha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Love has everything to do with it.
Since for me it's all about a long term committed relationship I can't settle for anything less. It just doesn't work for me.




ditto this.... if it is not love then to me it is just 'kinky sex games' with a D/s dynamic, and that can be great... but not anywhere near as heartfelt or long lasting as the 'need' for submission to that special One.... for that (in my opinion) there definitely HAS to be love!

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/19/2009 3:53:05 PM   
KnightofMists


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This is a writing on the subject I wrote sometime back..... I think it answers your questions from my perspective.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some may say Love is a hindrance to the M/s dynamic. But, I would say that Love is a fundamental aspect of my M/s Relationships. I couldn't imagine myself having this type of relationship without Love being apart of it.

Love and Respect of thy self... the most Powerful of Motivations... it comes from within...It's the intrinsic motivation that is only limited by oneself and dependent on no one but oneself.

Love for me has always been a Choice as much as it has been a Feeling. My feelings have always been motivated by what I perceive... Be it real or illusion. The choice is to see the truth of what I perceive from the lies. Therefore, one must make the effort to Love! Love will flow like water if you let it. But, water will flow the easiest path... and this could lead you over a cliff. Healthy Thoughtful Love is much more than free flowing water, but just as powerful. We control it, we manage it. We guide it. When it is time to allow it to flow, we let it flow. When we must harness its power, we focus it and feel its power. But we never push it up hill! Remember the flow well pick up everything and can move anything over the course of time. But if allowed to flow uncontrolled, it will wander aimlessly and finally dumping in a pool... its power never focused and utilized.

Love to me binds the people to a relationship. It moves the focus from themselves to focus on the other and the relationship itself. I question when love is not part of the relationship, if the focus ever moves from oneself to the relationship. Without love, I wonder if the individuals are only using the other and the relationship to serve their self-centered interests. Taking what they can and maybe draining the lemon dry, then going to find a new lemon. I wonder if there are some that use the word love, but it is a shallow use of the word instead of the intense devotion that it leads one towards. Love to me is a powerful word if it used with the feelings that back it up. It moves one from the self-centered focus to that of a focus to another person and a relationship. We become givers instead of takers and as result of our giving out of love we receive more than we could ever take. Instead sucking the lemon dry... We plant an orchard and reap the rewards of that effort

I have been in a relationship with Alandra since in summer of ‘87. It was then as is now without question a relationship that is very much a loving and growing relationship. I am also growing a young loving relationship with Kyra that began in spring of ‘05. Frankly, I find it difficult to comprehend how anyone can have an intimate BDSM relationship without love being an important part of that relationship. I suppose it is done, but I have not seen it done successful over a course of many years.

I thought I was in love with Alandra years ago... but I kept finding that day by day our depth of love just kept growing and never stopping. It's to the point that I look to tomorrow with excitement because my experience has showed me that I will be loved and love her even more than I do today. My experience with alandra has also had an extremely positive effect on my relationship with kyra. When I first touched her gently on the cheek that first time we saw each other... I felt a deep sense of love... but today that love seems pale in comparisons to the way I feel now... god I can hardly wait for tomorrow.

My approach is simple in the relationships I am in. Out of love, We become open to be who we are. I seek not to make my girls what they are not... I only seek to support them to shed that which is illusions of them selves, as they support me in doing the same thing. A relationship with me is about bringing the inner self out into the open and being this person. Out of love we accept what comes. This line of thought is nothing new. A noted psychologist termed the word "congruence" Essentially it means that the more we are able to demonstrate that inner self to the world/relationships, The more content/stable and at peace we become. We are happier. The deeper we hid this inner aspect of our self, well it is a path of unhappiness. I see love as a vehicle to facilitate this path towards happiness. It is not only path that I use. For I believe there are many strategies in building our personal happiness with our self and our relationships.

The path I describe is one of Self-Awareness leading to Self-Acceptance leading to Self-Actualization. The interesting aspect of this path is that it is actually circular. As we Self-actualize we are destine to become more aware of aspects of our inner self... which will lead us to need to Accept this new found awareness in order for further actualization to occur.

It is my beliefs that if we stop this cycle at any point we stop to grow in ourselves and in our relationships. We stop to bringing that inner self into the light of day and thus we establish a ceiling to our individual happiness. I suspect that many of us do this from time to time and can actually live very happy lives to the end of our days. Being in a relationship that is fundamentally a loving relationship promotes trust, security, validation and whole array of things that promote this cycle of growth.

I am loved not for what I do for them, "but for who I am". To push and bring my full awareness of my inner self to the open to those that love me can only grow this love. So I choose to be "Me" and enjoy the great happiness it gives me. Just as I love my girls for them are being who they are. However, I do not believe I could ever enjoy the love that is given to me, nor give love my girls to the depth I do unless we first love ourselves.

However, It is so much easier to love another than to accept the love from another. We know what is in our hearts and minds, but we only think we know what is in theirs. The difference is subtle but significant. To accept the love of another when we don't love our self is never an easy path. When we fail to love ourselves it begs to question the motivations of another that express love towards us. It is therefore my thoughts that “Awareness, .Acceptance & Actualization” is to grow our love of self and not just our relationship.

Some may say Love is a hindrance to the M/s dynamic and I would have to agree in some cases. In comparison, Many parents who love their children very much are blinded by that love to make the choices and decisions that are best for raising their children. They are blinded by "my children do no wrong" and I suspect everyone can think of examples of such. Because this, are they good parents? Should they be parents? Should parents not love their children?

I see no difference between the Master that allows his/her love to negatively affect his/her responsibilities towards the slave as the parent that allows love to negatively affect their responsibilities towards their children. It is my opinion we choose to love and as Masters we choose to exercise our authority. One need not conflict with the other.

To me it is not a question if Love should be in the relationship... It is should they be a Master?

If love causes a person not to fulfill their responsibilities... then let them never know what love is.



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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/19/2009 10:32:41 PM   
lioncub


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Knight, I very much enjoyed your post, but I won't quote it because it is so long. I especially agree with you that being one's true self reflects how happy they are. It is something so universal that one would think we would all say, "Hey, we're all on the same boat, so let's just be cool with each other."



My own opinion on the topic is that love is the only reason for what it is that I do. Could I play with someone I did not love? No. I cannot feel sexual/physical attraction for someone without loving them. Maybe this is the aftermath of abuse (an entirely different issue), I don't know . The whole reason for my submission would be out of love. Just any old Dom is hardly a Dom to me.

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/22/2009 6:47:47 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexycelticlady
You do not need love to interact in a D/s manner any more than you need love to have sex.


You may not need love to have sex, some of us do. Just as some of us do need love to interact within a power relationship.

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/22/2009 8:28:15 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
You may not need love to have sex, some of us do. Just as some of us do need love to interact within a power relationship.

Yes to both for me too Des. They all go together in my head and heart.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/22/2009 10:23:33 PM   
JenTehLuv


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There are all types of love, and I personally use those feelings to power my actions as a partner in BDSM. I don't need to be in a romantic relationship when I play with someone, but I sure as hell make sure that there's at least a deep friendship there.

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/22/2009 10:32:16 PM   
DrkJourney


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Married mine

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/22/2009 11:06:37 PM   
Acer49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aanakaris

I guess this one is for the Mistresses too.

Doms, do you love your sub? Masters, do you love your slave?

I ask this because I am seeing more and more profiles, not just on this site, where the submissive/slave in question repeatedly says they want only to be kept and used with no emotional attachment. In fact I'd say almost half of the new profiles I see have some variation of this theme.

While I don't have to love somebody to play with them, there needs to be some sort of emotion involved for me. Just like with vanilla dating, I want to at least like a partner before getting too involved. One night stands are fine, maybe these subs are seeking a lifetime of that one night stand feeling.

I also saw a comment from a Master saying he could not love any slave and still do the things he does to them.

So again, for all of you, What's love got to do with it?



Love has nothing to do with it. It is an emotion that in some cases, enhances a relationship, while in others, it destroys. I do not see why the OP is having a problem with the highlighted comment


< Message edited by Acer49 -- 8/22/2009 11:07:36 PM >


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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/23/2009 9:13:37 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aanakaris

So again, for all of you, What's love got to do with it?



He won't do what he wants to do with me unless he knows I trust in his love for me.  Love is the foundation of his authority over me and my submission to him. Love is powerful - - add his own power to the mix and, wow.


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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/24/2009 5:08:21 PM   
poeticfreak


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for me love is necessary, but none of us know that we love someone before we start, so it's just like vanilla in the sense that all that is really required at least for the short term is the kind of affinity that says love may be a possibility in time

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 8/24/2009 6:16:40 PM   
gentlemanprince


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I don't need to love to have sex, but D/s and play in that relationship is a much deeper thing. What my lady does to me physically is not nearly as important as the fact that I give my body and soul to her to do as she wishes. I can see doing that with any woman whom I don't wholeheartedly love and who doesn't love me in the same way. Yes, I have played without that kind of relationship; it's not an experience I would care to repeat.

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