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Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/16/2009 2:07:22 PM

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My femdom style is hyper-sensual, even when it's non sexual. Close body contact, my hands all over him, hair pulling, use of my mouth. I love scent, and taste, and feel, so I am a very physical femdom, even if I am playing with a guy who I will not have penetrative sex with, or oral sex with. I am still struggling heavily with the issue of "kissing" which has been its own thread and probably will be in the future again, as I can't seem to come to terms with the emotional intimacy involved with kissing, yet kissing is a big part of my femdom dynamic. It's just hard to keep off the table.

That said, I'm wondering if those in open relationships who keep "sexual intercourse" and/or fluid exchange (sexual) off the table (no penetration, no oral sex) have trouble with the slippery slope (pun intended) of hyper-sensual "play." I could have a much safer S&M interaction with a man if I keep it less sensual and more cold; however, that's a flavor that is not natural to me. While I can do it, it takes some work.

For myself, I am not really worried about "losing control" and doing something I would regret. For as long as I remember, the rush/arousal I get from domination (even super sensual domination), while it makes me VERY wet, it does not make me go into a "must have sex now!" mode, or make me ache for sexual intercourse. I actually am quite content just being in that mode, and I can bottle up my sexual lust and express it later with my primary partner.

But how is it for the subs in this scenario? Sure, if you just chalk it up to "denial" and use it as part of the S&M, it's fine and good. But I find this is something that is easier said that done. In the heat of the moment, people change their mind. I don't like the complication and tension that comes from a partner wanting to cross a line I don't want to cross. I know that I love lots of bondage and S&M minus the fucking or oral sex because I did that for years - I was doing S&M well before I lost my virginity.

It's much "safer" to do casual S&M with a very non-sensual angle, I have found. But I find myself wanting more. Is this fair to the guys I am playing with, I guess, is what I am asking?

Akasha

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RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/16/2009 2:21:56 PM

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Ironically, I find my self asking the same question.
Is it fair to the guy, invited in for play, who might expect/assume kissing from me?

Sir makes the arrangments and has a repoire of sorts, setting up boundaries, so I really do not know if he specifies no kissing.

Kissing is very intimate for me and I save that for my Sir.
My head and gut are telling me that he knows that, even without me telling him. I might have told him, I don't remember.

If the other man would approach for kissing, I know I would panic and turn my head towards my Sir.

So yes......... Is this fair to the guys? What are their expectations if nothing is spoken of before hand?

Now I have a task.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/16/2009 2:27:53 PM

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That's one of the reasons I don't 'play' at BDSM.
It's sexual and I no longer have sex with anyone that I am not really involved with emotionally.
Doing so has harmed me.

(in reply to RealSub58)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/16/2009 2:47:34 PM

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I can only speak from My own side. This was exactly the situation that I had with clip prior to him being collared. It's also My type of situation with casual play. There's not going to be any casual sex, coitus or otherwise. That's made understood up front. Consider it a part of pre-play negotiation if you will. I see it as the same as someone having any other type of hard limit. That's one of My hard limits and if someone doesn't think that's "fair" for a less than committed situation, there are plenty of other bottoms out there.

It may be easier said than done, but I don't look at it that way. I've never been willing to risk My life or My primary relationship just to have sex with someone casually. That doesn't change the fact that S/m does turn Me or or that I'm sensual when I play. Physical sex between Myself and the bottom isn't going to happen, any more than I would ignore one of the bottom's hard limits.

The forbidden fruit or the tease and denial factor does work for Me. Depending on the situation, I may still be in control of the bottom's orgasm if I tell him that he is not permitted to have one until I give permission, after the scene is over. It also works on the angle if I want to them to endure more for Me. Is that fair to them? I really wouldn't say, but they do tend to keep coming back!

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(in reply to lateralist1)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/16/2009 2:53:23 PM

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From: Pyroaquatica
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Well Akasha it sounds as if you have conquered the second chakra and sit comfortably on the leopards skin. It is only fair the the gentleman if the gentleman agrees to the no sexual contact in the first place.

Personally:

Physical contact is a very big step for me. I have my reasons which I will not go into depth right now but even getting to that step is pleasure enough. Simple and honest physical contact. It is intimate, yet loving.... non-sexual yet sensual. A caress of the cheek and a pull of the hair... these are all things I let you do to me. Not just anyone but someone that I have taken the time to know... and trust.

Sexual contact reserved I think it would be more than fair.... if we are sitting on the same skin.

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to lateralist1)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/17/2009 12:12:21 AM

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Hi AAkasha.

I am in an open/poly relationship with my mate (read husband) for the last 6 years. We dispensed with jealosy years ago and trust each other implicitly. I couldn't do what I do with my subs if that were not the case. I am totally committed to keeping my primary relationship with my mate vibrant and healthy. He meets any man I'm going to bring into the house, because I want him to know the people I spend time with. He has said that I do a very good job during the vetting process and that I pick good people.

I too have a very sensual style of domination. Sensation play, sensual play, tease and denial and all that good stuff are quite common. I even tend to do some of it (though watered down from private play session) in public. I am a very "hands on", touchy feely kind of person. I give hugs often. I like to tousle hair, give back scratches to lovers, friends, family and even new acquaintances.

I am in a bit of a different situation, in that I can and sometimes do have sexual interaction with my subs. My mate knows I'm a big stickler for making sure every one is recently tested and honest about their sexual history. I guess the question can be posed, that if I am free to have any kind of interaction I want with the men I take, why don't I use them all for sex then? Well, because I have to have some kind of relationship with them for me to feel comfortable doing that. I feel neither the need nor the desire to be intimate with everyone I play with. So, I really don't see it as such a slippery slope as far as what I do with them, because I am not "tempted" to go farther. As you said, I can "bottle up the lust and use it with my primary partner later".

For casual topping, I discuss with them what they want out of their interaction with me, and what I want out of my interaction with them. If there is never a chance I'm going to be intimate with them, I will tell them that right off the bat. I explain that I will do things to arouse them and tease them. I happen to like making my men cum in new and interesting ways, so they most probably will get some kind of release in the time I have them. If I decide they don't get to cum while with me, so be it. Doesn't seem like that really puts them off. So far, I haven't had any of them express a desire for more than we've negotiated. And they do tend to come back. As far as kissing...I love kissing! I will do that with some men I casually play with, but usually only if I see them on some kind of regular basis. If I do casual topping at an event with a man I don't know well? I'll kiss him on the forehead and cuddle him after we're done, but that's about as far as it goes.

So, I guess your question can be answered with "it depends on the men you choose to interact with". I don't see it as unfair to the sub, if you've been up front about what is and is not going to happen.

I thought of an analagy that may or may not be appropriate, you judge. There are many men that go to strip clubs and get aroused by the dancers. They know they can't touch the dancers, and won't be able to have sex with them. On the part of the dancers, are they being unfair to the men by working them up only to send them home? I don't think so, as the men chose to be there, knew what the ground rules were before they got there, and still chose to do it.

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In the great experiment known as evolution, evidently there are some people who's ancestors were in the control group.

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/17/2009 12:44:19 AM

ranja

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I suppose limits should be respected? and if anybody does not think that is fair... well... life isn't fair is it?... you are the Domme right? you make the decisions so he has to respect where you draw the line... if you feel sorry for him you can always let him suck a sweet while he wanks for you? or have him fuck a melon while he licks your feet? have a plan B incase he starts feeling that things are very unfair and you feel that it is appropriate to relieve his frustration.

If i were allowed to be used by others i would want it all... kissing included... sometimes just being looked at or talked about is way more intimate than anything else...
and sometimes my Husband kisses and fondles me untill i am sopping wet and then decides that is all i will get today... i love it... i think when the Dom is good a sub most likely wants more... and more and more... isn't that exactly what gives the Dom the power?

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/17/2009 1:06:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PhoenixRed

I thought of an analagy that may or may not be appropriate, you judge. There are many men that go to strip clubs and get aroused by the dancers. They know they can't touch the dancers, and won't be able to have sex with them. On the part of the dancers, are they being unfair to the men by working them up only to send them home? I don't think so, as the men chose to be there, knew what the ground rules were before they got there, and still chose to do it.

Its exactly the same with the majority of pro Mistresses. It clearly states in most of their websites that they will be offended if they are asked for sex and yet clients go back again and again.

I have done a lot of casual Dominating and some of that play has been hugely arousing. The arousal (for me) comes from the fact that I am using them. They are under my control, they are suffering for me and depending on how they suffer will depend on how much it arouses me!
I may brush my flesh against theirs and I may put my lips close enough that they can taste my breath but any act beyond that means (as far as both me and my partner are concerned) that I have lost control.
Whilst I agree that its lust that drives me to Dominate at my absolute best, its also a place that I have a huge amount of control over.

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(in reply to PhoenixRed)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/17/2009 1:16:35 AM

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I am going to respond to this when I do not have two of my friends in my room.

*sighs* Darn being a guy.

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RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/17/2009 8:53:06 AM

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What you want to do, AAkasha, is OK if that is what you communicate. Men can handle "we can play, but that's all" better than "later we will..." but later never comes. It is the difference between hopeful and let-down.

In the past with my subs I enjoyed the teasing and control but unless I know someone really well there will be no intimacy. If I made it clear that we would not be having sex from the start, it appeared that some women were more relaxed and felt less pressure about the budding relationship and the introduction to kinky play. The bondage and power exchange become more of the focus of the session. After a series of dates they may start to wonder if I don't find them attractive or something, but usually don't question since I still invite them back and go through much effort to entertain them and make them feel wonderful with my hands, imagination and my words. (Maybe my cooking for them helped too)

Recently I started wearing a chastity during sessions so that we knew that intercourse was not an option and that made it easier for them to submit right away. Unlike you, I find that when a submissive allows me to fully chain them up that I DO want intercourse. The chastity frees me from my struggle, I can accept that I already decided no sex and can allow my mind to continue down the path of "I really enjoy wanting her" so that I can continue the play for hours without looking for my immediate gratification. That is not to say I would not go for hours of play without it, but that I knew that any long session of sensual bondage would end when I finally came and we were both exhausted. Fine with a steady girlfriend but not for a kinky date or early in a possible relationship. It is good to be sure that she really likes the kinky play and not just the sex.

Open mouth kissing is an intimate act as well, that is a line that has to be crossed with thought and care. Kissing the shoulders and ribs should be OK. It is so delicious to kiss a bound sub from giggling to hot lust! Close body contact and rubbing, what better torture for a bound sub? Can't stay away from those cute lips, gag that mouth and be free of your temptation!

You mention partners reaching a point in play of suddenly wanting to cross a line that you both did not want to cross and how that effects the play dynamic - there are many ways to deal with the distraction. Since you have a great imagination and can visualize scenes in great detail, you have the advantage of having a "script" in mind that you can direct yourself to follow. That is a tool that worked well for me, I would have the outcome of the play in mind and do what I wanted to lead us there and to the end I had already pictured.

You also have the advantage of experience which you can call upon as backup for your judgment that the sub should wait for you to decide it is time. And in the power position you can also threaten them with punishment if they do not drop the subject of wanting to get off, just tell them no. Maybe tell them that sex with you means you need certain (extreme) commitments, list them and watch them change their minds! You might try turning his request into self punishment by doing something like telling him play is over if he asks again or threaten him with a chastity device. Turn the struggle into his instead of yours.

You should play as you desire as long as nobody gets hurt (in a bad way). Be honest and tell them what to expect. Use props and triggers to keep yourself on track. The sensual part is the best part in many peoples' mind, don't leave it out of your fun! There are men who will be very happy to play on your terms.

I wish more women could play on a sensual level and not feel intercourse is required to feel wanted. There are men in the world who enjoy sensual touching, bodies rubbing, fingers lightly wandering, even with clothes on!

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/17/2009 8:58:38 PM

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I used to have the opposite problem, although others would laugh at me and say it's definitely NOT a problem. I was so used to no sexual intimacy as part of bdsm relationships, and I was fine with it. Then I started dating dominant women who were way into sex with bdsm. Quite often, it took me completely by surprise and I was like a little kid being seduced by some older aunt (no, never happened to me). Nowadays, I try to remain completely open to pretty much anything, but it's amazing how once you turn off a certain side of yourself, someone can make it roar right back up again out of nowhere.

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/17/2009 9:03:33 PM

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Back when I did casual play, I specifically negotiated that I would safe out if I got too turned on (if I was bottoming or switching, if I was topping, I could just control the pace), and no genital or anal contact. A few people weren't ok with those terms, or seemed confused or whatever, so I didn't play with them, but I didn't have any shortage of potential partners. Since I was very up-front about my boundaries, I didn't feel I was being unfair to them, and I didn't get any complaints.

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/17/2009 11:13:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

Ironically, I find my self asking the same question.
Is it fair to the guy, invited in for play, who might expect/assume kissing from me?

Sir makes the arrangments and has a repoire of sorts, setting up boundaries, so I really do not know if he specifies no kissing.

Kissing is very intimate for me and I save that for my Sir.
My head and gut are telling me that he knows that, even without me telling him. I might have told him, I don't remember.

If the other man would approach for kissing, I know I would panic and turn my head towards my Sir.

So yes......... Is this fair to the guys? What are their expectations if nothing is spoken of before hand?

Now I have a task.

Well I dont know you Master, but I would assume that he has set the boundries with the potential play partner, those boundries would include a hard limit with regards to kissing. And it appears, since the potential is there, he has agreed to it

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Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
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(in reply to RealSub58)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/17/2009 11:14:55 PM

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It would work for me. I am not submissive but I can enjoy bottoming to a skillful woman. For me it's a head trip. It's arousing, but I don't need sex with the top to make it enjoyable.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Lust, physical intimacy and denial - 8/19/2009 9:08:57 AM

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Thanks for the feedback all, it's been great. I have a lot to think about. I have more thoughts and questions, but they are all related to kissing..and once I get my head around it I will post it.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to LadyPact)

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