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Different thyroid question - 8/19/2009 3:08:10 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		OK, I have one, I have never been under the knife. However reading the other thread about this has spurred me onto some thinking. If you have no thyroid, well you are dependent on a cetain drug or enzyme, hormone, whatever they call it to live, at least well. I did post about some physical problems here in the past and among all of the advice given, which seemed to try to impel me to go to a doctor, I have stood my ground and covered every inch of it.

If I read the other thread correctly my symptoms are at least very similar, may or may not be so severe, but almost identical to what was described there. It comes and goes, some days are better than others. Now iodine is what the thyroid needs, and I have re-examined my diet, and though it is not as bad as in the old days, I did notice something. For one I use no table salt, I mean that iodized stuff on the common kitchen table. Why did they put iodine in there ?

Further I noticed that I was hardly using even the sea salt I touted as being so good for health. So I get some salad stuff and make my special dressing consisting of sour cream, vinegar and sea salt. After a few days of this I am all of the sudden feeling better. Organic sea salt does contain iodine, but the refinement process takes it out. What I bought was a long time ago and the price has almost tripled. Why ? This market is pretty much unregulated so market forces must apply, and the results imply that someone somewhere thinks this is good stuff.

I was "sleeping" up to 14 hours a day, could barely walk, part of that problem was a pulled achille's tendon in my left ankle. Usually this is no problem, but this time around I found it impossible to disregard the pain, and it affected my gait to the point where I walked like a 100 year old Man. Coming out of that problem I still had to deal with this, and I know my immune system may have been compromised due to a couple of infections. In the old days I would be able to cut myself wide open and not even worry about it. Over the years so many times people told me I had to go get stitches, only to find a few days after I was almost healed all the way. I was always a fast healer.

These last few days I can feel me coming back. Damn, if I had known this was all it took I would've drank the stuff like beer. My appetite has skyrocketed and strangely, after I ate more today than I have eaten in a single day for months, I do not feel bloated. Not too long ago just one burrito would make me feel like I had just eaten a whole blue whale, and as my legs, arms and ass shrunk, my belly grew.

The tiredness, always cold, it fits. I am no longer cold, although it is hot here, I used to be cold even when it was hot out. In years past I would set the AC down to like 62F and love every minute of it. I am not yet back to that point, but getting there.

I got rashes on my forearms all but gone, the swelling in my ankle(s) is down. To put it eloquently as possible, my experience in the bathroom is much better.

I'd like to kick myself in the ass if this was all it took. I stuck to my guns, and I did not see an MD. If I beat this I consider it a feather in my cap so to speak.

Everyone absorbs minerals differently, and other than something caused bacteria wise, virally, or congenitively, people's diseases are largely caused by this inequity in our systems. Of course everyone gets something, but what ? I know certain things, like pancreas=chromium and vanadium, gall bladder-sulfur, and of course thyroid=iodine. However I was never really aware of the exact symptoms. When they jibed I tried it, and think I am on the right track here.

Where I see the trouble at was that I refused table salt altogether, and they put the iodine in there for a reason. I also did not have the best of diets, not the worst but not that many things I would use salt on. For example I have seen people salt salads and never understood why. Doesn't the dressing take care of that ? Well mine certainly does and it is too sour and salty for most tastes, but I like it. It is nothing but vinegar and sourcream, but with enough seasalt in there to paralyze a moose. Joking sure, but I would say about almost a gram for a small salad. That is alot.

Now IIRC whenever I ate this I felt good the day after, what am I to believe ? I ate one of these salads today and I am so full of energy that I can't sleep even though it is about 5:30 AM here. And I had a full day.

In the other thread someone mentioned 'radioactive' pills or something. I am familiar with that. When exposed to radiation, it is absorbed into the iodine in one's system, and there it remains. The iodine pills flood the body, causing it to excrete the old contaminated iodine replacing it with nice fresh iodine. This was, and probably still is among the treatments used for radiation sickness.

Now the thing is, there is only so much of this salt I can ingest. Now I am wondering about natural sources, I amean RELIABLE natural sources. I would imagine something from the sea.

When something like this happens it only encourages me more to find out more, and to tweak my diet more, or at least it used to. During the time I had been going downhill I can easily see that there was a different scheme to my diet. I must get back to being diligent in this matter. If I have to I will have a salad every day, but I would rather have some alternates. On my other PC there is a database about this and other nutrients, and of course I will refer to it, but you never know if you are getting the nutritional value out of anything you eat these days. I would prefer something iron clad, solid, would not grow to fruition without iodine.

Such as certain types of nuts will simply not grow without the right soil. If it grew, it has it. Within this database I have is also proof, part of it provided unintetionally by the US government, is the fact that on average a full cup of vegetables does not have the nutrients of a tablespoon of nuts. What's more, on average a teaspoon of spices has even more. These are facts folks and I can email you a zip file of the whole thing. I have made my conclusions and stand by my convictions. I shall be in sole control of my health, anything else is just advise. I do appreciate advice, but everyone telling me the same thing does not make it true, if it did, we would all be in perfect health and have no need for doctors at all.

If I do not live my life on my terms, who's life is it ?

At 49 years old I have only been really sick about three times. I have never gone to a doctor for the primary problem. One time a very bad flu laid me up for weeks, after I was up and about I had an ear infection so I did go to an ENT. When I got shot I wanted a cab home, not an ambulance. And this time around, it looks like I am beating it again, finally.

Any comment other than telling me to go to the doctor are welcome. Damn, after eating that for a few days I almost feel like playing again, something that has evaded me for some time. I still haven't taken a pill for so long I can't even remember when, I don't even do aspirin. I will not take normal supplements, rather I go for the natural ones, including spice.

Right now I am full of something, and I feel like cleaning the kitchen, but I am already undressed and in the bedroom. I don't think it would be too good an idea. Plus now I will have to get by on about five hours sleep instead of fourteen, but I think I can do it. We shall see. That is if I can even get to sleep. Not long ago you couldn't get me up, now it is totally opposite.

I can't say I pity, but I can feel for those with conditions that actually do require the intervention of modern chemistry to live. There but for the grace of The Creator go I, and if I can avoid it, I am damn sure going to give it a try.

T
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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/19/2009 3:48:36 AM   
sirsholly


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From: Quietville
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quote:

The tiredness, always cold,
Termy...these are two red flags indicative of blood loss. My first thought is you may have a bleeding ulcer, but there are many other causes. The blood may not be leaving the body, but may not be "made" as it should. This is often associated with kidney function (and didn't you have a huge amount of left flank/back pain awhile ago that was thought to be a kidney stone?)

You do not want to hear it but i am going to say it anyway.....get your buns to a doctor!!!


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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/19/2009 4:26:40 AM   
sirsholly


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From: Quietville
Status: offline 		Term...the more i think of this, the more frightened i am for you. I am pretty sure, based on your description in a past thread, that you have an issue with kidney stones.

Let me explain something here. Kidney stones can, and do, block the blood flow to the kidneys (think of a cork) resulting in a lack of kidney function. And a problem with kidney function does not necessarily mean you do not produce urine. One of the jobs of the kidneys is the production of something called erithropoietin which is sent to the bone marrow, stimulating it to produce both red and white blood cells.

A lack of red cell production results in fatigue, feeling cold all the time, etc.

You are now feeling better, and that is awesome. However...you have also increased the salt in your diet which causes fluid retention and increases the blood volume. An increase in the blood volume can make you feel better because the oxygen carrying blood cells are getting to the organs faster. But, it can be a temporary fix to a problem that can safely be handled now, before any permanent damage occurs


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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/19/2009 8:36:27 AM   
lilgirl2008


Posts: 73
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline 		Tiredness and always feeling cold are signs of hypothyroidsim. It is usually the first indicators. To Term if you haven't had your thyroid checked. It is a simple blood test. But make sure they test your t3 as well as your t4. Also good to test your antibodies as well.
An underactive thyroid is the most common ailment for women esp those over 40 but it does affect men as well. It is also the most undiagnosed. When my thyroid went I became very ill, and could sleep 16 hours aday. Was freezing all the time, even summer. Now I have to take a medication, and getting that regulated is difficult. Holly has a good point as well...if you are retaining water you need to make sure your kidneys are functioning properly as well. Also if you are using sea salt you need to supplement your diet with iodine. Iodine is very important to the thyroid. I use a liquid and a couple of drops in the morning. You might want to reaseach hypothyroidism and see if your symptoms are the same. Also depression is also a sign of hypothyroidism. My. Dr. believes half of the people being treated for depression are actually undiagnosed thyroid issues. Good luck.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

The tiredness, always cold,
Termy...these are two red flags indicative of blood loss. My first thought is you may have a bleeding ulcer, but there are many other causes. The blood may not be leaving the body, but may not be "made" as it should. This is often associated with kidney function (and didn't you have a huge amount of left flank/back pain awhile ago that was thought to be a kidney stone?)

You do not want to hear it but i am going to say it anyway.....get your buns to a doctor!!!




< Message edited by lilgirl2008 -- 8/19/2009 8:43:10 AM >

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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/19/2009 1:31:13 PM   
DesFIP


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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Fatigue, coldness, are signs of thyroid problems. One of the things here is that thyroid problems can manifest in many different ways. But when you go to the doctor, which you really ought to do, ask for a simple blood test that includes this. There's a tendency for men not to be checked so you ought to ask specifically for that.



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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/19/2009 5:40:27 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		The problem is that the OP is adament about not going to a doctor.
I like the saying that a physician who treats himself has a fool for  a patient.   and apparently you don't have to be a physician.

Tiredness, loss of energy, urological type problems  - sounds like the problems my Sir had before he finally went to the doctor and was diagnosed with bladder cancer. Your symptoms are all very generic. They could be anything, especially since there may be other minor symptoms that you haven't mentioned that would completely change how a diagnosis would be made.

Get a doctor to diagnose you   -  THEN treat yourself. You need to know that you are treating the correct condition - not just what you think it is.

and as for natural sources of iodine  -  seaweed.

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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/19/2009 10:36:00 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		kiwi, find me a doctor who will obey orders and I will go.

Let me draw an analogy here. Many people think they should just take their TV apart and can bring in the boards for testing. That is practically impossible. I work at one of the very few competent shops in the county. I know my distrust for doctors is like calling the kettle black, but when I make a decision I stick with it, possibly to the end if necessary. However this is a different subject.

Maybe I have to go into what I believe in a bit more detail The human body is designed to heal itself if the damage is not too severe. Ten years ago they would've done knee replacement surgery on me, but today my knees are fine. I addressed the problem and I solved it via a change of diet. If I am to spout off about this shit, I must at least practice what I preach to some extent. If you can't understand the morality of that, then you don't understand me. I may decide to die. I will certainly not go until the odds of death are 50/50. Today they are not.

Perhaps I cannot cure this myself, prehaps I wll change my mind, and I do reserve the right to do so. However that is not going to happen right now. Now that I have gotten away from other distractions I have gotten back to the (of course stolen) database on my actual personal PC, which is not connected to the network, and thinking about it, may never be again. I have had a look in the part about minerals, iodine specifically. The symptoms do match, and I see all the natural sources are things I rarely eat these days.

I will not go back to regular table salt and risk heart disease for iodine, there are other ways. What's more the chapter mentions that most salt used in processed food is not iodized. This further solidifies my belief that it is a thyroid problem. I also meandered to the section on selenium, and found those symptoms to jibe somewhat with "other things" I did not mention. Of course among the good natural sources for this element, I found little in the way of favorites.

Those who can't stop arguing when they know I will never agree might as well try Politics and Religion. Bush v Obama. I will not even engage in that argument. This is fact.

Now in light of that, does anyone havwe any ideas along the naturalpathic about this ? The database does, and I offered it free of charge here but apparently had no takers, although that cannot be proven. When I had webspace it was a link. Now I have already been layed up with sciatica for weeks, and a flu that was very persistent. In both cases I had to literally crawl to the bathroom, and considered Depends, and not in the kinky sense. I am nowhere near that far gone yet. I have suffered things that would send most people running to the phone to call 911. But here I am. Up until not too long ago I was in good health, considering my habits. I had people standing on my chest as I smoked a cigarette, and I mean adults up to around 200 lbs. Wanna try that ? When I put my fist through a wall it came out the other side. I have been in car wrecks that would kill many people, and I have also been shot in the face, and they almost literally had to drag me into the hospital. But I insisted on walking, and I did, and I walked out. I was relased in five days. We are not talking a flesh wound here.

Giving up my ideals and whatever other judgement I use that is based on my beliefs is more important to me than life itself, but that has yet to be tested because I did reserve the right to change my mind.

Now, back to the subject. I am thinking back to the changes in my diet which happened before this. Being careful not to engage in post hoc ergo propter hoc, one of the major changes was that I stopped drinking milk. I also started cooking less and ordering out more. As careful as one is, when you order food you never know. I have begun to reverse that, and seem to be getting better.

I firmly believe that by giving my body some time to repair, heal or cure itself, I have gained. I don't want to give that up, and as ironical as it seems, am willing to die trying.

Just like in one of the gun threads I stated "I am willing to die for my rights, are you ?". Well this is a similar thing unless we nip it in the bud. Also, if I am to take someone's advice to go see a doctor before I actually decide to, they better give me a billing address, because they are paying for it. I am willing to pay for a blood workup, and a bunch of other stuff, based on my knowledge as well as the doctor's, but that will not happen unless I am the payer and he knows it. I will direct my own care. I have plenty of other chronic problems, and I just ain't paying for the diagnosis of a foot fungus. It ain't happening. Now show me YOUR dominant side ! I will die for my beliefs, will you ?

Fact is most of you are not willing to die for anything. That thins the solution of humanity. Go against my beliefs just to stay alive ? The hell you say. Just like McCain didn't talk in that POW camp. Yeah right, the only guy to actually gain weight under those conditions. Maybe I'll never get anyone to understand who I am and how I am. Perhaps that is the why of alot of other things in my life. Some good, some bad. That's me, if I change too much it is not me anymore.

Maybe I am just pissing in the wind here. I refuse to pity, because to accept pity is dishonorable to me. So is asking for a handout. But I do feel for those who are dependent on drugs to live. I think it is a terrible situation. If indeed that were my situation, that would be good reason to consider changing my mind on the matter, but unless and until that condition is met, I will stand until I fall on my own words.

I hope y'all can understand.

So back to the point, at this time I need some good sources for iodine and selenium. Any ideas ?

T

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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/19/2009 10:46:44 PM   
BrunetteContessa


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Status: offline 		Kelp, dairy, eggs & strawberries are pretty high up on the iodine scale while still being healthy. 

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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/20/2009 2:24:50 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		I should find some kelp, some real kelp. Then I have to figure out how to use it of course. My Grandmother used it in soup alot. I am not a big soup fan, but I will eat it. I just consider it more of a side dish.

I wonder if it would work well in my special salad dressing. Hmmmmmmmm.

T

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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/20/2009 8:42:50 AM   
lilgirl2008


Posts: 73
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline 		To Termy,

I know I mentioned the iodine before. I have to supplement because the amount of food I would have to eat to get the iodine my body needs just isn't realistic. I found a natural supplement at a health food store. Also look into magnesium deficiancy. It is very difficult to get the magnesium we need from our food as our soil has been leeched of important nutients. Just a thought and something for you to look into. Sea salt is always better then the other salt. You want to hear something funny...everyone is always telling people to cut down the salt. My doctor, who does a great deal of natural medicine as well, told me I need more sodium in my diet. And that both my potassium and sodium are low which is something he has never seen because usually potassium and sodium are opposites of each other. IF one is low the other is high. Weird huh?

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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/20/2009 9:53:46 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		girl, I would have to give that some thought. You may have a malabsoption problem. Also if your chief source of sodium is table salt, expect wierd results. I asserted but can't yet prove the the same agent the prevents the proper metabolisation of the sodium in table salt could affect the absorption of other important minerals by the body. That's why I don't consider it a valid option.

I also found in the database last night that one of my more favored foods - broccoli, is anti iodine, that is it fights the absorption of iodine. I eat quite a bit of it as well. Compounded factors may have caused this.

As little as a few weeks ago I could barely walk, but I figured that one out. Apparently I did have a pulled achille's tendon or something. As it got better I forced my gait back to normal. Now I don't have the irritated back or hips. This is how one thing can affect the other. Like the guy who thinks he can fix his own TV, most of them are idiots, but you find one of them once in a while who actually CAN !. I found one not too long ago who impressed me. The guy just does posses that much knowledge and skill. I hope to count myself among such people in this regard. ( I mean health )

T

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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/20/2009 10:47:26 AM   
lilgirl2008


Posts: 73
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i only use sea salt if I use anything at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

girl, I would have to give that some thought. You may have a malabsoption problem. Also if your chief source of sodium is table salt, expect wierd results. I asserted but can't yet prove the the same agent the prevents the proper metabolisation of the sodium in table salt could affect the absorption of other important minerals by the body. That's why I don't consider it a valid option.

I also found in the database last night that one of my more favored foods - broccoli, is anti iodine, that is it fights the absorption of iodine. I eat quite a bit of it as well. Compounded factors may have caused this.

As little as a few weeks ago I could barely walk, but I figured that one out. Apparently I did have a pulled achille's tendon or something. As it got better I forced my gait back to normal. Now I don't have the irritated back or hips. This is how one thing can affect the other. Like the guy who thinks he can fix his own TV, most of them are idiots, but you find one of them once in a while who actually CAN !. I found one not too long ago who impressed me. The guy just does posses that much knowledge and skill. I hope to count myself among such people in this regard. ( I mean health )

T


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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/21/2009 7:21:27 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		OP - go to a doctor, tell him your symptoms and then he/she will diagnose you - based on tests. At that point you can elect to leave.
I don't know any doctor who will "force" a patient to accept treatment.

and yes, tincture of time is a well known remedy in the medical community.  As the hypocratic oath says  "first do no harm" - though what any of this has to do with dying for beliefs I don't know.
I find it somewhat presumptive of you to state catagorically that "most of us wouldn't die for  anything". We just wouldn't die for something so    ....   odd as not utilising a profession that has lasted this long because for the most part, they get it right.

As for seaweed/kelp - look at Japanese recipes - seaweed is an ingrediant in some of their cooking. I'm also thinking that you can get seaweed suppliaments.

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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/22/2009 8:02:25 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline 		Check out the books "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon, and also the "Schwarzbein Principle", by Diana Schwarzbein, MD. Both offer information on natural, holistic ways to heal yourself, the latter going into detail about metabolism and healing. Sometimes it is best to take control of your own healing and go against the conventional wisdom.

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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/22/2009 8:51:25 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I'm all for healing yourself  -   if you know what is wrong.

My Sir thought he has heart issues - because he was having breathing troubles, similar to those he had when he was in heart failure.  The problem was, he didn't take into account the fact that he was peeing blood, on and off for a few months.

It turned out - when he went to the doctor  - that his breathing problems were related to blood loss - he didn't have enough red blood cells to transport oxygen. And the bleeding was because of the cancer in his bladder.

Obviously i have issues in this area -  but if you don't know what the problem is, you can't effectively treat yourself. If my Sir had gone to a doctor when he first peed blood, he could have had a very simple , fast procedure , with an extremely good chance of total cure.  He waited because he "just knew" what the problem was, and now has a statistically decreased length of life.

Go to the doctor , get an acurate diagnosis, THEN treat yourself.


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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/23/2009 9:35:14 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


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Status: offline 		kiwisub12, I can relate to what you have said because I have seen the same behavior with my mother. I have mixed feelings on the medical community because I have had issues with the conventional medical system running tests, finding a problem, and then slapping the proverbial "bandaid" on it, without taking the time to investigate the true underlying issue. In any case, it's always good to be informed before going to see a doctor. We know our bodies and symptoms better than they do, and if you can find a doctor that is willing to listen and look deeper, that's a great thing! I'm just very cautious after medical experiences with my parents.

< Message edited by LadyJulieAnn -- 8/23/2009 9:40:41 AM >

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RE: Different thyroid question - 8/23/2009 11:46:18 AM   
rideemwet


Posts: 93
Joined: 6/12/2009
Status: offline 		OP
I second those who say see a doctor, or two.  Doctors can't do anything without your permission, they just make authoritative sounding recommendations.  Just like people on this board :)    Frankly without proper tests, its all guess work.  Your symptoms are serious enough that you don't won't to be guessing wrong, or even just postponing doing something.

I have illeocolitis, a nasty digestive problem.  I would have never figured that out without medical tests and help from a gastroenterologist.  On the other hand I've had Doctors at excellent hospitals (i.e, Rochester Mayo) overlook something as simple as blood test results.  I went for a follow up office visit complaining of fatigue, I couldn't put in a full days work in the Georgia sumer heat putting in fence posts.  Just a flair-up of the crohns, rest and go with a easy to digest diet was the recommendation, thank-you and any questions before you go?  "Yeah, can I see my blood test results?"  Dr. grabs chart and looks, get a disconcerted look, and says "did you say you've been feeling a little fatigued?"  Turns out my hemoglobin was down to around 8, normal is 15.  Effectively that meant that I had half as much working red blood cells as normal, duh, of course I was fatigued.  Turns out I had severe bleeding ulcers.  (Normally a hemoglobin that low is pushing fatal although if it happens slowly your body can adapt). 

Moral of the story - see a doctor, get the results, just keep in mind that any *good* doctor will tell you that a patient that is active in their own care has the best outcome.  Don't be afraid to disagree, argue, or just ask for detailed (and understandable) explanations.  Make 'em work.

I can provide several more anecodotal experiences (anyone else out there with Crohn's?) ...



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