RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M

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Prinsexx -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 3:50:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx The one thing we had in common was our desire to be better women than our mothers. As we each told our stories we all shared that same wish: that our mothers would have been normal. And that we had therefore to prove ourselves as perfect women to macho typre men. Not so much about childhood abuse and S & M but abusive mothes and trying to be perfect women. I hadn't really outwardly noticed that until your pointed it out Prinsexx but I also went through a series of abusive relationships and trying to be not only better than my mother, but the complete opposite of her. quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 this rings a bell with me too - i have spent my life trying to be a better mother, person, lover, human being than my own mother who was emotionally abusive to me. i have devoted my life to doing everything opposite to how my mother would do something. the worst thing anyone can say to me is that i remind them of my mother! i dont do emotional masochism on any level - it used to make me curl up in a ball and cry. now i just get seriously pissed off! but ive never cut myself - i did go the anorexic route though. That's about the worst thing anyone can say to me as well. I cut once. It was actually more like carving than cutting and it didn't hurt. It was very calming, as was all the self mutilation I engaged in. Edited to correct a spelling error Oh lawdy lasw this gets so confessional around here. I never cut. Nut I did pukk hair and pick skin and starve myself. It was all a practice in numbing myself out. As was drug taking. Numbing myself out because i did not want to be like my mother. But I must add: not wanting to be like her has lead to some powerful motivators. Striving to be the best at EVERYTHING. Educationally I excelled. Workwise I have alwats been dedicated. And as a mnother devoted. Always there was a model of how not to do it in the back of my mind. I guess my mother did her job exceptionally well. I miss her. I grieved not for her passing but for the mother I never had. But I miss her nevertheless. Spiritually it was all perfect.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 3:54:50 PM)
FR I love/like and care for my mother. She did the best she could. There was a period a few years ago where I blamed her for things, it was her fault I was promiscuous and her fault I had trust issues etc but you know it wasn't really. Yes she made some mistakes, and yes I was often the target for her emotional and physical violence, but I know still that she never once didn't love any of us, she was doing what felt natural. I found actually letting go of the blame was the best thing ever in terms of moving forward. Yes she can still crush me pretty easily now with the right words but it doesnt seem to happen as often now, and I find it far easier to bounce back from.

pyroaquatic -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 4:11:28 PM)
I have waited a while before I decided to speak up on this issue. As a child I was abused (mother leaves me with crazy lady, woke up late for breakfast/sunday school. punishment was sticking me on a hot stove.... this is why I have a slightly melted penis. I was taken out of that situation quite quickly.) I'm used to looking at it. I don't know about anyone else though. I was also raped... which leads me to why I have a distaste for the 'Macho' men types. The juvenile and pugilistic males who feel the need to call each other faggots and slap each others asses. My mother was practically nonexistent. She would rather go out and party than watch out for the consequences of her actions (me). My father-while a very caring man-was going through his own path to self-destruction at the time of my childhood (preserve me but destroy himself? MADNESS I SAY!). I used to pick... and pick.... and pick.... at scabs... wounds. None of them self-afflicted. They were there by accident. I just made them worse (it felt good/stress relief.) Thank the powers that be that I kicked that terrible habit. My fingernails look beautiful now too! To witness and experience these things are tragic. I have grown. I have been through LOADS of therapy. I am not ashamed of them anymore (of course I am not, I have posted them here). No sympathy needed. Do not pity me! Just some understand. I can see some of the connections between this abuse and bdsm. Not all of them... but a majority. If I could find my mother, where ever she is right now I am sure I would tell her quite a few things. Then hug her... then tell her I love her. If it was not for where I have been and what I have been through, I would not be the me that is loved by many today. so THERE! It is out there. :P [&:]

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 4:13:21 PM)
Yup, I am a masochist and I was sexually abused, physically abused emotionally abused and verbally abused and witness to my brother being abused, some of those by 3 people in my life at the same time, one of them including my brother. I got into cutting when I was about 11 to 12 years old, because I was bored and it seemed like something neat to do, and that changed later, from novelty because I was bored to liking to see the blood and then later using it as a means to control at least something in my life when everything else was under someone elses control, and then later on to get agression out, through the use of my body.. I haven't seriously made any attempts to cut myself in years, but there was one time a few years ago where I did take a knife to my thigh, though the knife was to dull to cut, and I made the consious choice not to go get a sharper impliment and do the cutting attempt right. I don't see how any of that has to do with me being masochistic though, because being masochistic is purely a positive thing and all about pleasure and joy and feeling good and the bond between the do'er of the masochisim and the one done to( me) and cutting and abuse isn't joyful or pleasureable. quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous I was just reading prinsexx's post about emotional masochism and her curiosities to what it means to you and how you deal with it and how it parallels with your intrests in S&M I began to read a few replies from people who had abusive mothers and how that leads them to completely avoid emotional masochism if at all possible. I did not have an intentionally emotionally abusive mother, but I was a "cutter" as a teen (Havent participated in major SI in about 12 years now) I was a self mutilator and I really enjoy physical masochism. Nothing "major" (serious cutting, intentionally drawing blood) but I do take great pleasure in the endorphin rush, sub space, and all the other perks of submitting yourself to moderate pain at the hand of a dominant man. If you enjoy (or maybe not, but still partake) in masochism, were you a cutter? Abused? Witnessed abuse? If you enjoy sadism, were you abused? I understand how the two easily parallel, but I am very curious as to what extent.

subbisherri -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 4:14:51 PM)
I second IrishMist: Grew up in a stable home; total tomboy and played with the boys and nothing inappropriate ever happened; never abused; love my parents; no drug use. So bloody normal it would offend any psychologist who tries to figure out why I'm an absolute sexual masochist. ss

Prinsexx -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 5:24:26 PM)
To those who say there was absolutely no experience of abuse: I have to say of course there wasn't. Well at least there wasn't anything you remember. It doesn't have to have happened to you directly. You may have witnessed it happening t someone else. Flame me. You may truly have forgotten. You may truly not remember. Repression is a wonderful wondeful thing.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 5:31:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx To those who say there was absolutely no experience of abuse: I have to say of course there wasn't. Well at least there wasn't anything you remember. It doesn't have to have happened to you directly. You may have witnessed it happening t someone else. Flame me. You may truly have forgotten. You may truly not remember. Repression is a wonderful wondeful thing. IF everyone is abused, is it abuse doesn't it simply become normal? Sorry kinda philosophical

Prinsexx -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 5:43:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx To those who say there was absolutely no experience of abuse: I have to say of course there wasn't. Well at least there wasn't anything you remember. It doesn't have to have happened to you directly. You may have witnessed it happening t someone else. Flame me. You may truly have forgotten. You may truly not remember. Repression is a wonderful wondeful thing. IF everyone is abused, is it abuse doesn't it simply become normal? Sorry kinda philosophical I'm not saying everyone is...how would I know/ How would anyone know? According to analytical theory at least how do the abused even know? And philosophically speaking: even if it is normalised I think it still remains relative. There is abuse that goes with passing everyday and is not seen. What was normal in many 1950's households would be considered abusive now and no-one is going to tell me that the pale imtiation of what passes for 1950's as a lifestyle is anywhere near to the real thing. There are social class divides covering what is abusive and what is not. There are ultural diivides even across Europe. But whilst children are silent witnesses, whilst the mind represses and denies, whilst neighbours fail to hear and social services and other interventions fail in their duties: there is abuse.

cpK69 -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 6:21:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous If you enjoy (or maybe not, but still partake) in masochism, were you a cutter? Yes, and then some. quote: Abused? I thought I had been abused; the counselor I went to see a few years back had said I was abused, but I am unable to discern whether bending is the same as breaking, which to me (at least at this time), is what defines being abused. I don’t think I was broken. I suspect I would be what I am, regardless of how I was raised; perhaps a few less scars, but still me. Edited to add: even when considering the idea that I had been abused, I am unable to decide who the abuser was... them, or me. Kim

AnimusRex -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 6:25:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexisubi i will also say that sometimes people look for a master to fix something they are not doing right in their life.. or something they want to fix. in reality, even though some dont want to realize it, the master is just showing one what they had all along... That in fact has been My experience- that often people who have submissive desires are unsure of how to explore them, and in very early relationships, confuse abusive for Dominant. Happily, many get that behind them and discover the difference.

playfulotter -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 7:23:54 PM)
Sometimes i think I crave spanking or whipping and other things because i never had any discipline as a child...oh a few times my mother tried to spank me with those metal fly swatters that were around during the 60's but when she did spank me with it I would start laughing (and actually enjoyed it) and so she would start laughing too and stop. After a few times she gave up after a few times as i was a pretty good girl except when i was around this one neighborhood girl who including me in her shoplifting at age 5-8....My mother is no longer alive but i think not having a father figure is why i am the way i am....but i am no psychologist...

Prinsexx -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/21/2009 11:46:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: playfulotter Sometimes i think I crave spanking or whipping and other things because i never had any discipline as a child...oh a few times my mother tried to spank me with those metal fly swatters that were around during the 60's but when she did spank me with it I would start laughing (and actually enjoyed it) and so she would start laughing too and stop. After a few times she gave up after a few times as i was a pretty good girl except when i was around this one neighborhood girl who including me in her shoplifting at age 5-8....My mother is no longer alive but i think not having a father figure is why i am the way i am....but i am no psychologist... As for being a psychologist..I don't think any of us ae at 4 or 5 years old if you catch my drift....

IrishMist -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/22/2009 5:58:09 AM)
quote: To those who say there was absolutely no experience of abuse: I have to say of course there wasn't. Well at least there wasn't anything you remember. It doesn't have to have happened to you directly. You may have witnessed it happening t someone else. Flame me. You may truly have forgotten. You may truly not remember. Repression is a wonderful wondeful thing. That's insulting.

Aileen1968 -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/22/2009 6:05:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: To those who say there was absolutely no experience of abuse: I have to say of course there wasn't. Well at least there wasn't anything you remember. It doesn't have to have happened to you directly. You may have witnessed it happening t someone else. Flame me. You may truly have forgotten. You may truly not remember. Repression is a wonderful wondeful thing. That's insulting. I agree. I had the happiest childhood and adult life. It's truly sad that some people think that the entire world is as fucked up as their own lives. So not true. Is that what you say to your patients in order to keep em coming back for more dysfunctional therapy???? Sad. edited to add...the last two lines were directed towards prinsexx, not irishmist.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/22/2009 6:23:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen1968 I agree. I had the happiest childhood and adult life. It's truly sad that some people think that the entire world is as fucked up as their own lives. So not true. Is that what you say to your patients in order to keep em coming back for more dysfunctional therapy???? Sad. edited to add...the last two lines were directed towards prinsexx, not irishmist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v9yUVgrmPY

IrishMist -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/22/2009 6:24:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen1968 I agree. I had the happiest childhood and adult life. It's truly sad that some people think that the entire world is as fucked up as their own lives. So not true. Is that what you say to your patients in order to keep em coming back for more dysfunctional therapy???? Sad. edited to add...the last two lines were directed towards prinsexx, not irishmist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v9yUVgrmPY LOL

happylittlepet -> RE: SI, childhood abuse and S&M (8/22/2009 10:01:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex That in fact has been My experience- that often people who have submissive desires are unsure of how to explore them, and in very early relationships, confuse abusive for Dominant. Happily, many get that behind them and discover the difference. This is the first post I am going to respond to on the forums, after writing my introduction. [:)] What comes to my mind is that yes, I have submissive desires, but I also have submissive character traits. And I think that it can be the interaction between those submissive traits and how my parents raised me, that left me with a vulnerability for being abused, also by my parents. The abuse confused me, because I was always way too obedient, I didn't know what I did wrong to deserve it. I never learned to say no, on the contrary, saying no was not allowed. My mother was very submissive, I don't think that was ever recognized by anyone, it was just something she thought she had to be to be a good wife, but it didn't make her happy. Looking back, I think she had the same character traits, so maybe she passed it on both in her genes and in her treatment of me. And then we don't even touch on my passive-aggressive father. From what I learn in my psychology classes, the nature/nurture debate: the nurture/lack of nurture has a great effect on us, but that effect is much greater when there is a natural (pre)disposition in the same direction. For me to start to recognize that I as a person am ok, that my character with its submissive traits and with its strengths is good, that is what makes huge difference for how I look at myself and for what I allow to happen to myself. My point here is: it does not matter if someone was abused, cannot remember, etc. There probably was no abuse, but maybe there was. Let's not argue about that. But maybe there is a submissive character beneath that, shaped by both our nature, our upbringing, and the interaction between the two. If someone cannot put the finger on the exact spot, that shouldn't stop the healing/discovery. As has been mentioned before, accepting ourselves for who we are is most important. That can be a long process. It's worth it though. Our mind is so incredibly strong. I never asked for the treatment I got from my parents, but I think my personality made it easy for them to continue, to break me. I don't think that what they did was abuse on purpose, I think most of it was completely out of ignorance. Ignorance in parents is a scary thing. So yes, many get it behind them, but it can take them 40 years or more, and at great cost.

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