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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/22/2009 11:47:19 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

But, interpreting symbolism can be like interpreting ink blots: it can show what's going on in the interpreter's mind more than what is actually there in front of her/him.


It shouldn't, though. First rule of symbolism--the entire story must support the symbol, and the story itself must provide the "clues" that something is a symbol.

For example--take a very short story, Galsworthy's "The Japanese Quince" -- just two pages or so. The blackbird and the quince tree clearly symbolize aspects of Nilson's life and personality. The entire story revolves around these symbols.

I cannot--as many try to do when new--go off on some flight of fancy starting, "Well, TO ME.....," as if my whims are now automatically insightful. The ivory-backed mirror doesn't represent man's inhumanity to animals, no matter how weirdly I strive to prop it up. It just doesn't--the story itself in no way supports such an imaginative but erroneous interpretation.

Now....if we want to say that such an interpretation tells us something about the reader's psyche, fine--but we're now talking psychology of that reader, not Galsworthy. We could, as suggested, substitute ink blots for the literature.

And that's the case with feminist literary theory. It tells us about feminism, not the literature to which its applied. My opposition, though, isn't with feminism per se--it's with any approach to literature, science, society, whatever when the starting point is deciding what the conclusions will be, then "seeking" "evidence" to prove what we decided was true before we started. Some of those conclusions could in fact be true, but they'd be true by accident, not methodology or scholarship.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/22/2009 12:02:56 PM >

(in reply to Jeptha)
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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/22/2009 12:04:35 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

And that's the case with feminist literary theory. It tells us about feminism, not the literature to which its applied. My opposition, though, isn't with feminism per se--it's with any approach to literature, science, society, whatever when the starting point is deciding what the conclusions will be, then "seeking" "evidence" to prove what we decided was true before we started. Some of those conclusions could in fact be true, but they'd be true by accident, not methodology or scholarship.

*nods* THAT makes sense to me. But not being on the "inside" enough to know, isn't it a little unfair to call it "feminist literary theory" as opposed to say, "idiots literary theory"? It seems to me that all feminists are getting painted by a big black brush by that nomenclature (again though, I'm not enough into academia to understand the full implications of your statements)

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/22/2009 12:06:24 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

isn't it a little unfair to call it "feminist literary theory" as opposed to say, "idiots literary theory"?

Jeff,

It's the feminists themselves who coined the term and instituted the "discipline." It's not a label anyone outside imposed.


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/22/2009 12:07:56 PM >

(in reply to leadership527)
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RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/22/2009 12:07:17 PM   
leadership527


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ouch... doctor it hurts when I shoot myself in the foot...

*chuckles*

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/22/2009 12:11:48 PM   
LillyoftheVally


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

And that's the case with feminist literary theory. It tells us about feminism, not the literature to which its applied. My opposition, though, isn't with feminism per se--it's with any approach to literature, science, society, whatever when the starting point is deciding what the conclusions will be, then "seeking" "evidence" to prove what we decided was true before we started. Some of those conclusions could in fact be true, but they'd be true by accident, not methodology or scholarship.

*nods* THAT makes sense to me. But not being on the "inside" enough to know, isn't it a little unfair to call it "feminist literary theory" as opposed to say, "idiots literary theory"? It seems to me that all feminists are getting painted by a big black brush by that nomenclature (again though, I'm not enough into academia to understand the full implications of your statements)


Jeff, there are indeed many art forms that are explained very well by feminist theory, sometimes to not include it is ignoring a massive part of whatever the piece is about. To suggest that all implications in art forms are conscious seems to be missing the layers in texts, western culture is a product of western ideas therefore the art forms created will represent it.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/22/2009 1:09:07 PM   
leadership527


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I might be confused Lilly. But I'm pretty sure I agree with you.. and MusicMystery. The search for personal meaning can be found in anything... even an ink blot. And it's perfectly valid. But when one starts "reading into" stuff, it gets to be a very slippery slope. I assume that's why Music was intent on having the symbology be reinforced throughout the piece. In that way, you can at least have some confidence that as the viewer, you didn't just pick out one tiny slice and "prove your point" with it.

I completely agree that no product of human effort can be removed from the context in which it was created. But it is ever so easy to construct paper-thin chains of "reasoning" to allegedly support some point or another. Wanna bet I could take any piece and argue two wildly divergent viewpoints regarding what that piece says about society?

Conveniently, at least here in the US, I see the battle as already won. Sure sure, we're still waiting for few grey haired old CEO's to come aroud. But honestly, they're retiring and dying. Younger generations seem to be much more gender-blind. It kind of makes me wonder how long we're all going to still "theorize" about it.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/22/2009 1:26:18 PM   
LillyoftheVally


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I see what you mean, but I see feminism as having changed direction a bit, to steal the,darkness' phrase, 'humanism' but I do think the same theories apply to older art forms, when society hadn't shifted as much.

And I know what you mean, I understand where MM is coming from also.

Thing is, academia is a often about theorising and I guess, to understand where we are we have to understand where we came from.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/22/2009 4:50:20 PM   
Gentlemanjohn9


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I came to this forum offering information on a system of erotic slavery and yet posters here would rather discuss literary theory. Strange. Am I in the wrong forum?

Here's some further written material on Code d' Odalisque - this time basic advice on first steps in training.


SOME ELEMENTS OF TRAINING


A full program of training for an odalisque is very wide-ranging and very rich, even though the odalisque's task is essentially simple and one dimensional. While it is true that all a sex slave needs to do is fuck, the odalisque's life under Code d' Ode is somewhat richer and more diverse. Here is a list of some elements of training:


Beauty

The odalisque makes herself an object of beauty for her Keeper. She attends to her appearance and ensures she is always well-presented, clean, attractive and keeps herself to her Keeper's standards. She keeps her pubic hair trimmed or shaved. She gives particular attention to her skin care. Training sessions may be devoted to the Keeper's requirements in regards to the slave's beauty and appearance.

Obedience

The odalisque is obedient to her Keeper. Traning sessions may be devoted to building trust and instilling obedience in a slave.

Bondage & Captivity

The odalisque is accustomed to bondage and captivity. Traning sessions may be devoted to teaching or exercising a slave in techniques of bondage and captivity.

Cockworship

The odalisque is devoted to cockworship and is physically and psychologically trained in techniques of cockworship and reverence for the phallus. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching a slave the attitudes and techniques of cockworship and for making her phallocentric.

Simplification

The odalisque knows the methods of psychological simplication by which she reduces herself to a cockworshipping cunt to be enjoyed freely by her Keeper. Training sessions may be devoted to techniques of psychological simplification.

Slave Positions & Commands

The odalisque is trained in a number of basic slave positions which she can perform naturally, gracefully and expertly. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave her slave positions and commands to the level of her Keeper's satisfaction.

Fucking

The odalisque is naturally gifted at fucking. She is well-trained and expert in all sexual positions, tricks and techniques. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave new sexual positions or techniques.

Semen Play

The odalisque should be trained to know and enjoy various methods of semen play, including cum-drinking. The odalisque is a natural semen lover. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave new methods of semen play. A slave who specialises in semen play is an Ejacaline and will receive special training in this area.

Anal Sex

The odalisque will normally be trained in anal intercourse as well as other modes of fucking. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave the techniques of anal sex. A slave who specialises in anal sex is a Sodomella and will receive special training in this area.

Cocksucking

The odalisque is a naturally gifted cocksucker and knows how to give an expert blow-job. She knows the whole art of fellatio. The odalisque is also trained to deep throat. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave the arts of fellatio. A slave who specialises in fellatio is a Fellatrice and will receive special training in this area.

Guests

The odalisque knows how to behave before her Keeper's Guests and is well-trained in polite etiquette, rank and other manners of play. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave an appropriate code of etiquette governing her behaviour before Guests.

Group Sex

The odalisque is acquainted with and trained in methods of group sex. She can take double and triple penetrations and is accustomed to multi-player scenes. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching a slave the techniques and manners of group play. A slave who specialises in group sex is an Orgophon and will receive special training in this area.

Lesbian Play

The odalisque is acquainted with lesbian sex to the degree that it excites and pleases her Keeper. She knows how to fulfill his lesbian fanasies for him. She knows how to lick cunt, kiss women, suck tit, dildo play, etc. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching a slave her Keeper's lesbian fantasies and techniques of lesbian sex. A slave who specialises in lesbian play is an Ambiphiline and will receive special training in this area.

Display

The odalisque is well-trained in displaying her body to men. She knows how to flaunt her body sexually and seductively in various positions. She is trained to specific positions for the purposes of display. She is especially well-trained in leg-spreading and the display of her cunt. She knows how to display her cunt to men. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave how to display her beauty.

Dancing

The odalisque should be trained in at least simple forms of erotic dance. She might also be trained in old-style dances such as the waltz. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave to dance.

Transitions/ Role-play

The odalisque is expert in moving in and out of her odalisque role. She is trained in various techniques that help transit from one persona to another. She is an expert in role-play in this sense. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave techniques of role play.

Sojourn

The odalisque knows how a slave behaves when moving in the world like a freewoman in sojourn. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave her Keeper's requirements of her when she is away from him.

Serving Drinks

The odalisque performs the role of "wine stewardess" and should be skilled in serving drinks to her Keeper and his Guests. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave the skills of wine stewardess and drink serving.

Bathing

The odalisque performs the role of "Bath attendant" and is skilled in showering, bathing, washing, drying, shaving and grooming men. She has a good knowledge of male toilettries and other male bath products and techniques. She is especially knowledgable about skin and hair care. Training sessions may be devoted to teaching the slave the arts of the bath.

Male Grooming

The odalisque should be expert in all matters of men's grooming. She assists her Keeper's personal grooming. She may shave him, trim his beard, trim his pubic hair, and provide him pedicures and manicures. This does not extend, however, to washing his clothes, polishing his shoes etc. She advises her Keeper on clothing and helps to ensure he is well-groomed. Training sessions may be devoted to organising grooming to her Keeper's requirements.

Men's Health

The odalisque should be well informed about men's health issues and be of assistance to her Keeper on such matters.

Arts

An odalsque will usually have knowledge of one or other of the aesthetic arts - music, dance, poetry, painting, costume, decorating, etc.

The Slavetrainer should construct a complete program of training using a selection of these themes. The program is adapted to each individual slave.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/22/2009 7:53:22 PM   
Gentlemanjohn9


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The website for Code d' Odalisque seems to be up again:

http://www.codedodalisque.110mb.com/main.html

And please note - its all free., Nothing for sale.

(in reply to Gentlemanjohn9)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/23/2009 12:46:39 AM   
BitaTruble


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Some subs what fleshy floggers. Some doms want fleshy blow up dolls. Neither of those seem to work very well in the long term.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Gentlemanjohn9)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/23/2009 1:10:43 AM   
TurboJugend


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cockworship is training?
And you are sure it isn't about sex?

As it has a link to harem slaves that had an important role, cockworship as a main means of training sounds....mmm..like ..... a sexual fantasy only.

< Message edited by TurboJugend -- 8/23/2009 1:21:03 AM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/23/2009 4:11:40 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9

I came to this forum offering information on a system of erotic slavery and yet posters here would rather discuss literary theory. Strange. Am I in the wrong forum?



You mean a site where conversation goes on tangents? Where people with their own elements of expertise are able to bring new dynamics to the discussion? When the OP simply adds quotes from websites without engaging in discourse?

If that isn't the kind of forum you want to be on, maybe you should go somewhere humans don't interact.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to Gentlemanjohn9)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/23/2009 5:06:42 AM   
Gentlemanjohn9


Posts: 46
Joined: 8/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TurboJugend

cockworship is training?
And you are sure it isn't about sex?

As it has a link to harem slaves that had an important role, cockworship as a main means of training sounds....mmm..like ..... a sexual fantasy only.


Dear TurboJugend, Yes it is about sex. An odalisque is essentially a sexual slave. Have a look through the website material and you will get the idea. In fact, the whole "Code" is on line now. There is a growing community of Code d' Oders. Perhaps it is a sexual fantasy for them, but it is also a system of etiquette, discipline, slavepositions etc. so I don't think it is *just* about sex.

(in reply to TurboJugend)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/23/2009 5:08:57 AM   
TurboJugend


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quote:

so I don't think it is *just* about sex.


wouldn't it be "MAster/Mistress " worshipping then instead of just the sex organ worshipping?
Not judging..just wondering.

(in reply to Gentlemanjohn9)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/23/2009 5:13:05 AM   
Gentlemanjohn9


Posts: 46
Joined: 8/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TurboJugend

quote:

so I don't think it is *just* about sex.


wouldn't it be "MAster/Mistress " worshipping then instead of just the sex organ worshipping?
Not judging..just wondering.


No. Specifically not so. One of the slogans used in the Code d' Odalisque material is 'Man is her Master. Cock is her god.' This is a different styl;e of Master/slave relastion and is based in different traditions. The Master is not worshipped. Cock is her god. This makes a fundamental difference, I think. I find it an interesting distinction. Again. I'm sure there is stuff on the website related to this question.

(in reply to TurboJugend)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/23/2009 5:13:53 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TurboJugend

wouldn't it be "MAster/Mistress " worshipping then instead of just the sex organ worshipping?
Not judging..just wondering.


According to the website, it is a game between Master and slave, therefore female as slave and doesn't involve sm but is very much sex focussed.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to TurboJugend)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/23/2009 5:16:21 AM   
TurboJugend


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No place for dominant females either?
( sorry didn't read the website yet)

If the cock is worshipped..is this connected to a person. Or can a slave walk away with every one who has a cock?

< Message edited by TurboJugend -- 8/23/2009 5:17:25 AM >

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/23/2009 5:16:48 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TurboJugend

No place for dominant females either?
( sorry didn't read the website yet)


From what I have read, no

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to TurboJugend)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/23/2009 5:25:42 AM   
Gentlemanjohn9


Posts: 46
Joined: 8/21/2009
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Personally, I find Code d' Odalisque refreshingly different. It stands outside the usual Master/slave category. I'II let the website speak for itself now that its up again, and draw attention to this page:

http://www.codedodalisque.110mb.com/themes.html

Again - there's nothing for sale on that website. Just free info about this system of consensual slavery.I'm happy to discuss it. But first, everyone needs to stop expecting Code d' Odalisque to conform to the familiar Master/slave Dom/sub patterns. For a while I did that too. Then I realised that it is a different slave tradition drawn from different historical models. It caused me to rethink the whole idea of Master/slave play. You have to open your mind to other traditions from other cultures.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Code d' Odalisque - 8/23/2009 5:29:19 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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Joined: 7/22/2009
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John, its not something dramatically different, and though nothing may be for sale, you make a rather irritating sales man.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to Gentlemanjohn9)
Profile   Post #: 160
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