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RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 4:23:44 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		From strangers? Walk away. From my offspring? Hug them and find out if they've eaten lately.
What he does when I'm acting badly is tell me, since frequently I don't realize it. At which point I take a couple of minutes to think about what's going on. Usually, it comes down to having run around all day, being stressed out, and not stopping to have lunch, get a glass of water and so on.  If stress is the culprit, we sit down and cuddle. If hunger or thirst, we address those issues. But always he has to tell me since I never notice it myself.

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(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
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RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 4:34:23 AM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RebornMaster

I can only assume, which is dangerous, you're talking about "my" slave as far as the question goes and how I react to it.

There is, in my opinion, different kinds of "negative attention" seeking. She could be very naughty and break the rules and ask for something, she could start begging which is not allowed...there are lots of ways one could act negatively is my point. Her punishment, or lack thereof (ignore her) depends on her specific behavior and whether she broke a rule or "just" was seeking attention in some other way.




I think I'm missing something here.

You don't like or want your slave either asking for or begging for anything? It strikes me as a bit odd, because lots of dominants do like this, even relish the begging part. Or is it certain specific things she is not allowed to ask for? If it's all things, then how do you know when she wants or needs something? Doesn't that cut off a channel of important information that might aid you in controlling her?

Let's assume an extreme example: she's in another place, perhaps cross town running an errand for you, and talking to you on the phone. She cuts herself and starts bleeding copiously. She's on blood thinners, and this is a deep cut in a bad place. Is it forbidden for her to ask to leave the conversation so she can attend to the wound and try to stop the bleeding,? It's asking for something, after all. Does that mean it is very naughty? And would you "ignore" her for asking this?

(in reply to RebornMaster)
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RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 4:48:25 AM   
CaringandReal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

I also think it is important to recognise that it isnt always a thought out thing. If I am feeling down or depressed or whatever I can be quite difficult, it isn't me trying to manipulate attention in a conscious way, but that more often than not is a big reason for it. If that makes me a brat then I guess I can live with it, but I would imagine it makes most human beings brats


With enough of the right training (caring but also very firm) this sort of thing can become thought out. A person isn't doomed to always be this way. It can even become second nature to think before you act (out). Maybe not in all circumstances, but certainly in the ones that are important to you. Training unconscious negative behavior to be conscious can be a long, painful process though, painful for both parties. It can also be done it on your own, but that is harder, because you lack the motivation and feedback that a dominant provides. Still, if it's important enough, you can do it. Making it important enough is the key. :)

"O necessituous one, increase your need!" ;)

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
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RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 4:53:33 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Ill just tell him he needs to train it out of me then, hmm to be honest though I think if he had an issue with it he would have decided to do it himself.

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(in reply to CaringandReal)
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RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 4:55:03 AM   
RebornMaster


Posts: 53
Joined: 8/26/2009
From: American in Misawa, Japan
Status: offline 		Yes, my slave can beg in some situations...I just didnt go in to any detail about what the rules are we live by and go in to an in depth explination but made my remark more generalized about not being allowed to beg because, in our lives, there's alot she can't beg for, and when she does she's naughty, and I paraphrased like I said and it came across wrong, my fault. and I was just pointing out a very brief example of how negative behavior can be perceived differently depending on the situation.

Per your example...I love my slave wholeheartedly and we do have a very open line of communication so yes, she is allowed to ask/beg for help in that situation and sure hope she would...I know she would.

I was just trying to keep my answer to the OP brief, I'll be more specific in the future.   

< Message edited by RebornMaster -- 8/27/2009 4:58:54 AM >

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(in reply to CaringandReal)
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RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 5:04:07 AM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

Ill just tell him he needs to train it out of me then, hmm to be honest though I think if he had an issue with it he would have decided to do it himself.


Quite true, although another reason someone might train something out of a submissive is if they see it's making her miserable (even though the dom is fine with it).

If you are fine with it and he is fine with it, however, then I would think the old, "if it ain't broke, don't mess with it" priciple applies here. Unfortunately (perhaps) for some of us, that condition isn't always the case in all cases.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
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RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 6:11:15 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		That was fabulous. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Years ago when I had and was showing Afghan Hounds, I'd find at times one of more of them would be naughty and even destructive. I discovered that this happened when I had an overload of work and wasn't giving them the time they needed. In other words it was better from their perspective to have me being angry with them than having me ignoring them. Hmm I seem to remember that children do this too.

First I locate the cause and then work out the best way to eliminate that problem. Our two dogs touch base with me regularly. Storm touches me with his nose and sits quietly out of the way till I stop and spend a couple of minutes paying him attention with ghest ftrokes, head strokibng and rubbing as well as rubbing our muzzles together in a short shuggle fest. same for RaRa who justb mostly wants to be acknowledge before she heads of again on the eternal mouse hunt or playing in and out of a bath tub filled with water in my front yard.


(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 6:47:54 AM   
gracesky


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/29/2009
Status: offline 		thank You all so much for responding...You are giving me some great incite into this

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RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 7:08:00 AM   
Lostkitten3


Posts: 179
Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: offline 		If enough positive attention is not supplied, the only other possibility, other than feeling ignored and unloved, is to get negative attention.

So before you ignore those seeking negative attention, make sure you are giving enough positive attention.

You may be creating the situation.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 7:40:17 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		What I do about it depends on whether or not I give a damn.

If I don't I either remove them from my presence or myself from theirs. If I do give a damn, I try and figure out what triggered it and deal with it from that perspective. It may very well be something I have done, or not done, creating the problem.

As IB explained so well, our 4 legged furries are pretty adept at letting us know they need some attention. People, especially those of a submissive nature, often less so. Not because they are trying to hide something but because they want to please and serve. Asking for something, for themselves, is often very difficult.


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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to gracesky)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 7:49:35 AM   
allthatjaz


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Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

If enough positive attention is not supplied, the only other possibility, other than feeling ignored and unloved, is to get negative attention.

So before you ignore those seeking negative attention, make sure you are giving enough positive attention.

You may be creating the situation.



In some ways I have to agree with what you and lilly have said. If someone is asking for attention of any sort then the Dominant needs to look within before jumping to conclusions that she/he is an attention seeker.
I had a sub female that needed one hell of a lot of my time. I put as much as I was willing to into that relationship but the final diagnosis was, she needed constant and I wasn't prepared to give constant. Thats not to say that someone else wouldn't be willing. In other words we were just ill matched. I know she has another Domme (long term) now and I have a feeling that Domme is a very busy woman! but its obviously worked out well.

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(in reply to Lostkitten3)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 7:59:49 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		For me, it depends on the situation.  If she is a play partner and a play partner only, then she gets told once that I don't do brats and she knew that entering into the play relationship with me.  She is my play partner and submissive to me only during the time of that play which means I am dominant to her...and for her...only during that time of play.  The rest of the time she has no right to make demands on my time or attention nor do I have those rights on her time and attention.  What is given from me and from her in terms of time and attention when we are away from play is what we are comfortable with and any demand beyond that gets met with a reminder of that fact.  Negative behavior after that reminder brings out the reminder about not doing brats and, as someone else put it, a comment about how the door they came in also works for leaving.
Now, if they are my submissive, I would assume that a breakdown in communication or focus had occurred somewhere but that can just as easily have occurred on my side as on hers.  My first inclination is NOT to blame the submissive for anything that goes wrong.  Sometimes it can be my fault too.  So, I would sit down with her and ask her where this unpleasant and unwanted behavior was coming from.  If it is her feeling that I have been lax in some way, I consider what she has said and if I find her to be right, I apologize and make a change in my behavior.  If I consider her to be wrong, I show her in what way she was wrong and I expect correction of her behavior.  If it is not due to inattention on my part but merely an attempt on her part to express herself in a different way to see what I would do, I let her know that I don't appreciate being "tested", she is disciplined and reminded that she was told in the beginning that I don't do brats, and we move on.

(in reply to gracesky)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 8:01:18 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

If enough positive attention is not supplied, the only other possibility, other than feeling ignored and unloved, is to get negative attention.

So before you ignore those seeking negative attention, make sure you are giving enough positive attention.

You may be creating the situation.


What an excellent way for a BRAT to take a bad situation and make it 10 times worse! Last thing a SUBMISSIVE wants is to disapoint and get into the wrong kind of trouble, the BRAT however doesn't care so long as she can manipulate getting some kind of attention. positive or negative.

If MY girl has a problem she comes to Me and COMMUNICATES what that problem is, I then have the full information to be able to deal with the problem possitivly.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Lostkitten3)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 9:29:53 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

If enough positive attention is not supplied, the only other possibility, other than feeling ignored and unloved, is to get negative attention.

So before you ignore those seeking negative attention, make sure you are giving enough positive attention.

You may be creating the situation.


What an excellent way for a BRAT to take a bad situation and make it 10 times worse! Last thing a SUBMISSIVE wants is to disapoint and get into the wrong kind of trouble, the BRAT however doesn't care so long as she can manipulate getting some kind of attention. positive or negative.

If MY girl has a problem she comes to Me and COMMUNICATES what that problem is, I then have the full information to be able to deal with the problem possitivly.



I really don't believe its that black and white. Whilst I agree that a brats job is to manipulate, I also believe that the title 'Dom/Domme' does not qualify them to know or understand what Dominance is about.
Many so called Dominants don't want to make the effort to put rules and guidelines in place. I have a submissive friend that can wrap her supposed Dominant round her little finger because he's a 'perhaps or maybe man' and the one thing I do know is, she is far from happy and will probably walk very soon but in the mean time she is trying to coerce that Dominance out of him by getting things wrong.
submissives don't come pre-cooked but are molded through the interactions of an assertive man. If he isn't capable of assertion then she may well look for it. That in my opinion does not make a Brat, it makes a lost soul that has very probably ended up with the wrong man.

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Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 10:31:20 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I had a slave that seemed to do negative things to gain attention. She did it so well she got my attention all the way out the door. I will work for a short while to assist in correcting what is causing someone to try and gain negative attention, but I have learned a long time ago that you cannot fix someone that does not see the problem themself, and even then you are not fixing you are assisting them in doing so.

I have had aquaintences in the past that was into the negative attention getting thing, and eventually I told them to stay the fuck away from me before they got a negative attention overload.

Negative attention and passive aggressive behavior are two things I have a very low tolerance for.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to gracesky)
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RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 11:11:59 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

If enough positive attention is not supplied, the only other possibility, other than feeling ignored and unloved, is to get negative attention.

So before you ignore those seeking negative attention, make sure you are giving enough positive attention.

You may be creating the situation.


What an excellent way for a BRAT to take a bad situation and make it 10 times worse! Last thing a SUBMISSIVE wants is to disapoint and get into the wrong kind of trouble, the BRAT however doesn't care so long as she can manipulate getting some kind of attention. positive or negative.


Thing is submissive means different things to different people, and using the negative connotations supplied by the term brat (BRAT) then it is rather insulting. But I guess less important what others think a brat/submissive is than your own partner.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 11:51:19 AM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Sometimes a fire goes out when it is deprived of fuel.
Sometimes an extinguisher is required.
Some fires, such that at an oil well, require an explosion.

It calls for judgment.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 11:57:22 AM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		If they were someone in a relationship with me,  and talking about it didn't work I'd teach them real fast by some really nasty unpleasant  punishment that they did NOT want my negative attention, they'd be awfully sorry for an awfully long time if they pushed for negative attention. If after all attempts to work it out and a very severe punishment didn't stop the behavior and bad behavior was a regular thing I'd show them to the door.


If it was just some random person  I'd ignore them . If it was  a friend I'd tell them to back off and deal with what ever is making them seek negative attention from me, and I'll be more than happy to hang out with them when they're not so crabby.
quote:

ORIGINAL: gracesky

i mean those that behave badly to get attention.


< Message edited by Toppingfrmbottom -- 8/27/2009 12:21:10 PM >

(in reply to gracesky)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 12:44:29 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		It IS black and white HERE. Bratish behaviour isn't tolerated full stop. How things are when it isn't a Dominant in control I neather know nor care. The question was how 'you' handle it... so the answer I gve was from THIS standpoint, I can't speak for others and their standpoints/situations.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Negative Attention - 8/27/2009 12:52:12 PM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		But surely one dominant's cheeky sub is another dominant's brat

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 40
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