Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior?

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Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 8/29/2009 9:58:56 AM

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A writer on abusive relationships has posed the question: Does Rough Sex Lead to Relationship Abuse?

She did a pretty good job summing up BDSM and differentiating between SSC playing and abuse. On this site, i've found some angry men and women who seem to think submissives are here to find abusive relationships.

i'm masochistic and would welcome an erotic sadist as a partner, but it's difficult to sort out the abusive types from the erotic types.

Is there a point when a sadist goes over the line and becomes abusive, losing control in the heat of the moment? Or do erotic sadists always maintain control of themselves when inflicting pain?

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 8/29/2009 10:48:45 AM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lamb4Ram

........i'm masochistic and would welcome an erotic sadist as a partner, but it's difficult to sort out the abusive types from the erotic types.

Is there a point when a sadist goes over the line and becomes abusive, losing control in the heat of the moment? Or do erotic sadists always maintain control of themselves when inflicting pain?

Welcome to the Boards!!

Go slowly, get to know the person before you share their kink. You have to know the person before you can know if they will be reliable.

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RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 8/29/2009 11:10:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lamb4Ram

A writer on abusive relationships has posed the question: Does Rough Sex Lead to Relationship Abuse?

She did a pretty good job summing up BDSM and differentiating between SSC playing and abuse. On this site, i've found some angry men and women who seem to think submissives are here to find abusive relationships.

i'm masochistic and would welcome an erotic sadist as a partner, but it's difficult to sort out the abusive types from the erotic types.

Is there a point when a sadist goes over the line and becomes abusive, losing control in the heat of the moment? Or do erotic sadists always maintain control of themselves when inflicting pain?

First of all: welcome to CM.

The link you posted goes to a well written article that I enjoyed reading. Thank you.

You wrote 'On this site', is that CM?

I used the search option for 'sadist' and found many threads. One of them is:
http://www.collarchat.com/m_584330/mpage_1/key_sadist/tm.htm#592709.
Many of those threads have good links themselves.

I would turn your question around: does relationship abuse lead to rough/sadistic sex? Rough/sadistic sex is not wrong, but if it's against the will of the person who submits to it, it is.

And about your last paragraph: if a sadist is also an abuser, get out. S/he uses sadism to damage you. This is contrary to a sadist who has as a limit that if the sub/slave does not enjoy the pain, the sadist stops. The difference is that the abuser wants to cause harm and the non-abusive sadist doesn't.

A trustworthy sadist know his/her limits and yours. Mistakes happen though, but those are different from losing control over him/herself.

I have no real life experience with a sadist, however, I do with abuse. I would classify my abuser as mentally ill, very insecure, in need of control, and submissive in bed, not dominant at all.

From your link I copy this:
The next, and very important, difference is the trust. A BDSM relationship revolves around trusting your partner to follow the rules. The submissive is giving up complete control, of their own free will, because he or she trusts their partner to keep them safe. In domestic violence situations, there is no trust in your partner, and often none for yourself.
It's a distinct possibility that someone who is abusive to their partner does so under the defense of the BDSM lifestyle. Or by using of love, marriage or children.

The highlights are of my own: I stayed in the abusive relationship because I did exactly what he wanted me to do: I trusted my partner to be right and my gut to be wrong, that's how bad it had become. I am only saying, be very very careful.

Edit: one of my online friends told me he is a sadist. Some would say (maybe those you refer to in your post) that I want another abusive relationship. I don't. I never got any pleasure out of the abuse I went through, if I did, would I have gotten out of if? But I do find that I have a massochistic side that I want to explore one day. My sadistic friend has only shown me the utmost respect online. It remains to be seen if that carries over to face to face interaction.

< Message edited by happylittlepet -- 8/29/2009 11:24:03 AM >

(in reply to lamb4Ram)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 8/29/2009 11:24:12 AM

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Thank you for the welcome, the link, and the advice. i'm sorry you were in an abusive relationship. Thank you for sharing that and the other information about what to look for.

Yes, when i wrote *on this site*, i meant CollarMe. Conversations start off nicely, then turn ugly if the Doms aren't agreed with 100%. i've been made to feel like i don't belong here if i don't submit totally to their demands, but i know not all Doms are like this. i'll follow this good advice and take it slow, and hopefully the erotically sadistic Dom that finds me won't turn into someone who is out of control in the future.

Thanks again!

(in reply to happylittlepet)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 8/29/2009 11:27:06 AM

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quote:

My sadistic friend has only shown me the utmost respect online. It remains to be seen if that carries over to face to face interaction.

i saw this after i posted my reply to you, happylittlepet. This is my concern exactly.

Good luck to you, too!

(in reply to happylittlepet)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 8/29/2009 11:35:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lamb4Ram

and hopefully the erotically sadistic Dom that finds me won't turn into someone who is out of control in the future.

Thanks again!

Thank you too lamb4Ram.

I have highlighted the word 'hopefully'. That is not up to the Dom, to any male, to anyone you are in contact with really. Ultimately it is up to you to make sure he won't do that. By the time you find out he does it, it's probably too late.

Edit:

quote:

Yes, when i wrote *on this site*, i meant CollarMe. Conversations start off nicely, then turn ugly if the Doms aren't agreed with 100%. i've been made to feel like i don't belong here if i don't submit totally to their demands, but i know not all Doms are like this.

I have no experience with conversations through CM that are aimed at meeting someone. My sadist friend and I met online 3 years ago, while playing a game. Over time this developed into a friendship. Two years into the friendship the topic of sexual preference became important to explore, because the friendship deepened. I am happy with this order of things. What you describe is almost the opposite. Try to figure out what your prefered way of getting to know someone is. See if any dominant male matches that.

< Message edited by happylittlepet -- 8/29/2009 11:50:05 AM >

(in reply to lamb4Ram)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 8/29/2009 12:13:52 PM

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happylittlepet,

It would be great to meet someone i like and find out they are also a Dominant and have things in common with me, but the chances of that are so slim that i thought i'd speed up the process by having a look around CM. Even if i don't find a Dom that suits me, i'll have made some friends and learned a lot along the way.

Thanks for your wonderful advice and encouragement!

(in reply to happylittlepet)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 8/29/2009 3:12:43 PM

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Hi lamb, welcome to the boards!

HLP was quite correct, you need to take it slow. You are new, so you will get a lot off attention here. Unfortunately, some of that attention will be from "Doms" who are really just abusive jerks. Sorting the wheat from the chaff is something you will have to do for yourself. The best advice is always trust your gut. If someone is pushing in ways that make you uncomfortable, there is a reason for that discomfort. If someone tries to bully you into submitting, then they have told you what you need to know.

I suggest you hang out a bit and read the boards. The threads here will give you a bit of insight into how many different folks see both dominance and submission, and reading the posts of different people in different dynamics may help clarify what you seek in your own mind. There are lots of sadists here, and I think you will learn quite a bit from what they have to say.

Good luck!

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(in reply to lamb4Ram)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 8/29/2009 3:37:23 PM

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cyber sex is just that "cyber" and anything goes, real time is "real time" and you have the option to say "no"

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RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 8/29/2009 3:43:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lamb4Ram

Thank you for the welcome, the link, and the advice. i'm sorry you were in an abusive relationship. Thank you for sharing that and the other information about what to look for.

Yes, when i wrote *on this site*, i meant CollarMe. Conversations start off nicely, then turn ugly if the Doms aren't agreed with 100%. i've been made to feel like i don't belong here if i don't submit totally to their demands, but i know not all Doms are like this. i'll follow this good advice and take it slow, and hopefully the erotically sadistic Dom that finds me won't turn into someone who is out of control in the future.

Thanks again!

a S/m relationship would be built on trust. let them get angry, helps you weed out the so called "twue". take your time. agree to only what you feel comfortable too.

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(in reply to lamb4Ram)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 8/29/2009 3:56:27 PM

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quote:

There are lots of sadists here, and I think you will learn quite a bit from what they have to say.

Thanks for this advice. There's a huge spectrum of meaning among sadists, so while i'm more likely to find one i can be a good submissive to, i'm going to be relying heavily on gut feelings. There isn't really a standard by which to pick out the good ones from the ones missing a few nuts and bolts.

Thanks flogger, for reminding me that it's okay to say *no*, especially in real time relationships.

(in reply to WyldHrt)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 9/8/2009 10:27:45 PM

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I had a sub girlfriend with a history of abusive relationships. (Her previous boyfriend had pointed a gun at her.) The sex was great, and we had many wild times, including rough sex. But she was into having temper tantrums, and would get wound up and rant for an hour or more. I'd withdraw from her when she did that, which upset her even more. I finally realized she was doing it to get me to abuse her; that was the kind of relationship she understood.

So I broke up with her. I liked the rough sex, but as a game. I didn't want to be pushed into an abusive role.

I was relieved when she married someone calm and spiritual, and settled down a few hundred miles away. That was what she needed.

(in reply to lamb4Ram)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 9/12/2009 8:35:28 AM

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abusive people are abusive period.

i am very rough during sex with my slave. and we also play hard in bdsm realm. i never beat my slave out of anger, i make a mental note and punish/discipline my slave when both heads are leveled off.

there are many forms of abusive behavior. i do not think rough sex leads to abuse. its like saying pot leads to other harder drugs,, its basically a copout in my opinion

(in reply to lamb4Ram)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 9/12/2009 9:12:07 AM

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You will find online a lot of people playing at the fantasies that Dominant Sadists only want to abuse their partners. This is not completely true, consensual sadists need a partner to be agreeable to their actions, even if those actions are hurtful. When there is consent there is not abuse, it is the lack of that consent that creates abuse.

Beware of any dominant, sadist or otherwise, who questions your submission because you do not follow directions blindly. Until you are owned you do not owe obedience to anyone, and those who believe you do and will push that point are the types to stay away from. Go slowly and get to know your partner, do not jump straight into the S&M part until you know they will keep your best interests in mind.

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RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 10/3/2009 3:33:37 PM

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quote:

Or do erotic sadists always maintain control of themselves when inflicting pain?

Ah, always. Absolutely.

(in reply to lamb4Ram)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 10/5/2009 7:54:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather

I had a sub girlfriend with a history of abusive relationships. (Her previous boyfriend had pointed a gun at her.) The sex was great, and we had many wild times, including rough sex. But she was into having temper tantrums, and would get wound up and rant for an hour or more. I'd withdraw from her when she did that, which upset her even more. I finally realized she was doing it to get me to abuse her; that was the kind of relationship she understood.

So I broke up with her. I liked the rough sex, but as a game. I didn't want to be pushed into an abusive role.

I was relieved when she married someone calm and spiritual, and settled down a few hundred miles away. That was what she needed.

Sounds a lot like my ex.

(in reply to roughleather)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 10/5/2009 8:28:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: happylittlepet
And about your last paragraph: if a sadist is also an abuser, get out. S/he uses sadism to damage you. This is contrary to a sadist who has as a limit that if the sub/slave does not enjoy the pain, the sadist stops. The difference is that the abuser wants to cause harm and the non-abusive sadist doesn't. A trustworthy sadist know his/her limits and yours. Mistakes happen though, but those are different from losing control over him/herself.

Actually, I'm both a sadist, and a masochist who has been involved with a lot of sadists, and I completely disagree that the sadist needs to automatically stop if the person they're thwacking doesn't enjoy the pain. If they withdraw consent, if it is truly damaging them, then obviously something is wrong, and they have probably passed into abuse. With a newish partner, it can be difficult to judge that line between "not yummy anymore, but not beyond my pain tolerance," so verbally or otherwise checking in is important.

When I was looking, I was more cautious about men who identified as "Dominant" or "Master" than as "sadist," since they're far more likely to expect things of me that I don't like and don't want. It was crucial to find out what their expectations were before getting involved with them. Of course, discussion is important with sadists as well, but with a D/s dynamic involved, it tends to cover a lot more ground that might not be anticipated.

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RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 10/5/2009 10:12:04 AM

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There is a huge difference between the sadism or masochism we engage in and abuse. The most major part of that is consent. If I have consented to this treatment, it is my Master the sadist hurting his little masochistic slut, me. For some people, using safewords helps them keep the distinction clear. Others use more of a direct communication about what is going on. A person who disregards such communication may very well be abusive. My Master does things to me that I don't enjoy all the time and that is part of the fun . If I liked everything, it would feel like I had a control that I do not want. For me this is exactly the point. If he ignored my basic health and safety, refused to stop no matter what I did, etc, that would range into abuse.

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 10/19/2009 12:18:43 PM

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I find that boys are boys and men are men. Meaning that anyone that does not validate you and your needs to be you, seeking, needs to be 86.

Don't waste your time with guys that say "if you don't do this then you are not that" or call you names that don't turn you on. Some men are after quick pussy/ass/oral- some are after relationship- some are just lonely and find that subs put up with more than non subs. They will all use you if you let them (human nature).

My advice is get a couple of straight guys for sex and turned them into the type of sexual partner you want now.. (a now guy and a later guy- this way you never run out of partners)

How to get the sex you want? By showing them movies, reading them stories, and buying the toys you want used on you. You will find that some will be turned on by it and some will want to take the bottom.. (kick the bottoms to the curb.. quickly. Nothing worse than a male sub that think they have a playmate).

(in reply to beltainefaerie)

RE: Does rough sex lead to abusive behavior? - 10/24/2009 4:31:12 PM

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I would actually recommend anybody who consider them self to be submissive to read a litle about the personality disorder psychopathy, sociopath or dysfunctional personality disorder, which is the correct term used by psykiatrist today. To submit to, or just getting involved with, one of them is the sure way to having your life destroyed. I have done my homework reading lots of stuf on the subject and consensus is that the incidense among males is 2 % and females ,5 % in the general population. But among the ones calling them self dominant i am sure that the incidens is much higher. The reason being that this BDSM enviroment attract them like bees to honey. This becomes evident when you read the books. I will not recommend any specific book as such as all the titles i posses is written by danish or norwegian experts. Most of these qoutes american and british books as sources. But as such i have not read any of these. If it is translated, a book like Charmer... Tyrant by Alvin A Dahl is absolutely exellent and considered by most as "the Bible" for people dealing with psycopats. There is no credibel scientific research in to this in the BDSM world. It would be lovely if someone would take it up.

(in reply to Nikki323)

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