|
Aswad -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/13/2009 2:37:20 AM)
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3
The Beatles were made up? Was their music a lie too?
Never said the Beatles were made up. I said they were idols, which is one type of god. Then I used sarcasm in asking who made them up, since I was replying to someone who suggested all gods are made up to explain things, which isn't a position I agree with.
quote:
Just because you can posture and demean ideas using large words and complicated sentences, does not make you superior, in knowledge or philosophy.
Correct.
I have a large vocabulary. That does not decide whether or not I am intellectually superior. It shows that I have spent a lot of time learning to speak a foreign language. It may or may not show that I have a knack for learning various foreign languages. It does not imply that I am vain. Much of the time, when I speak or write, I choose my words carefully to try to convey my meaning as precisely as possible. I also tend to use large sentences. That does not decide whether or not I am intellectually superior, either. It just shows that I usually speak with people who also use large sentences, and read books with large sentences, and have acquired the habit of doing so myself. But none of this demonstrates actual skill in communicating.
What may or may not demonstrate that skill, is whether or not this reply is easier to read.
Posturing is not something I have tdone here, at least not intentionally. As for being demeaning, there are two meanings of that word that I am familiar with. One of those is "reducing in worth or character." That is not something I have tried to do here. I have debated whether or not atheism counts as a religion, and whether or not atheism includes beliefs. To reduce in worth or character the idea of atheism would require attacking the idea or soiling it somehow. I haven't done that. The other meaning of the word "debasing" would be to "causing awareness of one's shortcomings." That can be painful. I have my share of shortcomings, like anyone else. And there are some of those I do not like to be reminded of, again like anyone else. But to always avoid it would mean to do all things in life so that nobody is ever made aware of their shortcomings. That fosters a downward spiral of growing shortcomings and also debases the wonder of human diversity. So, yes, I may have caused someone to become aware of their shortcomings. I will not apologize for that. But I will say it clearly: it is not with malicious intent that I have done so.
quote:
People keep faith because they need it.
Some people keep faith because they need it. I have faith without needing it.
I have been without faith, and it was not need that caused me to change my mind.
quote:
I know of the Sumerian Myth of which you speak, but it has been told, in most every civilization of that time. Floods are common, even in this century, and people, devastated, turn to god in faith that he saved them for a greater purpose, and to maintain the belief that their loved ones have gone somewhere better, to alleviate the loss.
It is a fairly common myth, yes. But the Sumerian version is believed by a fair number of scholars to be the root of the flood story in the Bible. In the Jewish Midrash, it is commented that all names for divine beings and demons came from the time of the Babylonian Exile. It is not unlikely that the Jewish people brought the story of the flood with them from Babylon in the same way. And the Babylonian story comes from the Sumerian story.
And some people turn to religion when they experience loss. This is one meaning of the word "god," as our ancestors first used it: that which one calls out to, or pleads with. It is not the only meaning, but it is one that is very apt when it comes to describing what you speak of. When confronted with events that do not make sense, or which we cannot emotionally accept, many of us will ask why, and find that there is no answer. So some of us decide to believe in some answer to the question, and some idea of a god then becomes what one believes to be the source of the answer. It is still not the only reason faith exists, and it is not a compelling argument in favor of religion as anything more than a way to avoid dangerous mental instability in such circumstances. I ascribe more purpose to religion than that.
quote:
As to your comments on scientific Method, well, what they taught in Biology and every other science class must be wrong if you are right. Granted my version is much simpler than yours, people will believe what they choose (and more likely what is understandable and makes sense!)
People will believe what they want to believe is true, or what they fear to be true. That much is given.
Scientific method is more rigid than what is often taught in school classes, just like almost everything else taught in school is a simpler form of what is learned elsewhere in life. Up here, there are music classes in the first few grades, and they do not teach more than some very simple basics. It is outside school that someone with an interest in music will learn that there are other scales and temperaments of notes out there, or how to play an instrument properly. School is simply there to ensure that people know some basics in life. When you are not going to look into anything yourself, you do not need to understand scientific method fully, and school assumes we will continue to go through life accepting the answers we are given, not go looking for our own answers and checking to see if they are correct or not. For that, we need something more than what school provides. Like scientific method.
quote:
So, I will not worship you, no matter how powerful you attempt to be.
I have no desire for you to worship me.
And the very idea of being powerful on the Internet strikes me as absurd.
quote:
I have a man to worship. But honestly, if he's a god, then we all are, for I have plenty of power myself, as does every being on earth.
I never said he was a god. He's certainly not one of mine.
And being a god does not necessarily mean having power in any way.
However, there are idols, avatars and neteru that qualify as gods in the classic sense.
Limiting your perceptions to the Judeo-Christian idea of god is a common mistake people make, because it is familiar to most people in the modern, western world. But far from all religions around the world deal with that idea of god, and in the past, neither did the Judeo-Christians. The modern idea of god is not the same one as that family of religions started out with. Currently, that idea is a nebulous and protean thing. It takes the form of whatever a self-professed believer will want it to be at any given time, pretty much. That is not how it started, nor is it very useful.
In a classic sense, Angelina Jolie is a goddess of the idol type from the Hollywood pantheon. In a classic sense, Justice is a god of the neteru type from the Western Secular Humanist pantheon. In a classic sense, Obama is a god of the avatar type from the American pantheon, as an avatar of The President of the United States of America. This is in the same way that Akenathen and Amenhotep are examples of gods of the avatar type from the Egyptian pantheon, as avatars of Horus. And the IRS is one mean avatar, whose sacrifices better be right, or it will punish you by taking everything you own away from you.
We're just sticking different labels on things now, and relating to them in a slightly different way.
You do make the demanded sacrifices to the IRS, right?
Health,
al-Aswad.
|
|
|
|
