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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/17/2009 1:21:45 PM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales


quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
]The only givens in this entire debate are 1) that a large section of folks dangling off the left end of the spectrum will endlessly dissect every word uttered about democrats or Obama in search of the moment they can go berserk because they have indeed, found a racist opinion and 2) that no debate will have any real merit or impact because of 1).


I think the only two givens in this debate are:
1) There is more racism in this country and against Obama than many on the right claim there to be.
2) There is less racisim in this country and against Obama than many on the left claim there to be.

Oh, one other given:

It's easier to blame the other side entirely than work towards rational solutions.


Maybe. Bet you I end up with more proof of my 1) and 2) than you do.

Wanna wager?


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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/17/2009 2:26:59 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan



Maybe. Bet you I end up with more proof of my 1) and 2) than you do.

Wanna wager?



Only if you are willing to factor in the guys on the right who will try to explain posters like Obama as a witch doctor with a bone through his nose as "dissatisfaction with his policies"

Like I said, there is enough fertilizer on both sides of this question to make the desert bloom.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/17/2009 2:37:00 PM   
Estring


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Status: offline 		And what was all the animosity that was directed at George Bush got when he was president? Once again the race card gets played when there is nothing to someone's argument. Anyone who takes Jimmy Carter seriously about anything is stupider than he is. He was arguably the worst president ever, certainly in recent history, and he reinforces that everytime he opens his big mouth.

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/17/2009 3:16:19 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
If that statement wasn't clear enough, then yes, I consider a good section of the left racist.

Yet strangely the left is represented in this country by a party that is extremely diverse while the right in this nation is represented by a party that has a special acronym for any party member that strays from the party line.


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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/17/2009 4:15:03 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

I find it interesting to note that nobody has yet mentioned that Obama has already let it be known through his press secretary that he does NOT agree with Carter's assessment. He said very clearly that he believes that those who oppose him do so because of differences in policy, not differences in race.

Boy, that's playing the "race card" all right.

Let it be known though that while at the time he was "soundly disagreeing" with Carter, his administration also stated that it would not stop other democrats from calling "racism".  What a way to have your cake AND eat it too..."I won't say this but if others in my party want to, well who am I to try and stop them?"


Anyone who thinks that Obama doesn't have control over what government Dems cry racism and when is hopelessly naive. Carter may be a wild card, but the others, especially those in the Congressional Black Caucus, wouldnt make a move without his approval.

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/17/2009 5:56:43 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
So the race card is just another tool to be casually used in any given debate, the charge of racism doesn't really mean anything.

If the left doesn't like what someone says about Obama, they bash them with it. No set parameters really, Carter can disagree with Obama but that's not racism. Joe Wilson disagrees with Obama, and that is racism.

I understand perfectly now, thanks.


That's the way race baiting has always worked.


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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/17/2009 9:34:22 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I'd argue that a racist is also the first to bring it up since whenever he sees people of different races disagreeing his first thought is that the disagreement is racially motivated.
Where do you get this from?   How do you know who is racist?  
So your argument is, one is not racist as long as he never utters the word, regardless of stated racist views, and behavior indicating supremacist ideology?    It's one thing to argue one's case against another's idea.   It's entirely another to make inane accusations, spout personal insults based on paranoia, and a need to show this president doesn't belong...
For examples, see post #49, by MarsBonfire.

Being disrespectful, and condescending, because you feel the opponent has no right to be in the same room making his argument, given his ethnic background, is how some haters of Obama have been behaving.    
Anyway, you no doubt disagree with Jimmy Carter, because you monitor racism very closely, and know it is a figment of folks' imaginations.   M

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/17/2009 10:33:43 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Anyone who thinks that Obama doesn't have control over what government Dems cry racism and when is hopelessly naive. Carter may be a wild card, but the others, especially those in the Congressional Black Caucus, wouldnt make a move without his approval. ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy




You display a shocking lack of understanding of how the parties differ. Republicans tend to fall in lockstep behind their  leader. A democratic president, however, finds trying to keep any control over his fellow party members in the congress much like herding cats.

But, you have come up with a wonderful way to accuse Obama of playing the race card despite the inconvenient fact that he's never done so. From one "spinner" to another,  bravo.

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 12:06:17 AM   
HatesParisHilton


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Status: offline 		"Republicans tend to fall in lockstep behind their  leader. A democratic president, however, finds trying to keep any control over his fellow party members in the congress much like herding cats."

3 words:

"Reverend"

Al

Sharpton








4 more words, for those old enough to recall:

there

was

no

rape








as someone who would love to see "Frat Boy politics" die roasting alive on a spit, I have to try (maybe fail) to be fair, and say that the GOP has not cornered the market share on wrongfully falling into lockstep for bullshit reasons.

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 2:16:41 AM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I'd argue that a racist is also the first to bring it up since whenever he sees people of different races disagreeing his first thought is that the disagreement is racially motivated.
Where do you get this from?   How do you know who is racist?  
So your argument is, one is not racist as long as he never utters the word, regardless of stated racist views, and behavior indicating supremacist ideology?    It's one thing to argue one's case against another's idea.   It's entirely another to make inane accusations, spout personal insults based on paranoia, and a need to show this president doesn't belong...
For examples, see post #49, by MarsBonfire.

Being disrespectful, and condescending, because you feel the opponent has no right to be in the same room making his argument, given his ethnic background, is how some haters of Obama have been behaving.    
Anyway, you no doubt disagree with Jimmy Carter, because you monitor racism very closely, and know it is a figment of folks' imaginations.   M


See, this is what kills me about this type of debate. If you remove race completely from the equation, there is little difference in the rhetoric, disdain, dislike, jokes, and all other sorts of partisan garbage that has been practiced ever since I've been cognizant of how political parties work. I swear, it's like the collective memory of this country is less than that of an in-bred mountain man who just yesterday realized that his thumb goes a different way than the rest of his fingers.

Clinton and Bush both were mocked, criticized, hated, demeaned, the butt of enough jokes that Obama has only scratched the surface in terms of the vile things said about him. The difference is that there is a decent portion of the country dedicated to scrutinizing every word in search of what they consider the magic bullet that will kill any and all debate, any and all opposition because someone, somewhere doesn't like him because he's half black.

I never hated Bush. I just considered him a liar. I never hated Clinton. I just considered him a dolt and a liar. Obama? I sort of like the man personally. What I believe will be his downfall however, follows along some of the same lines that caused Bush's downfall. Namely that both sides see a majority as a reason to ram their platforms down the throats of the rest of the country.

To spinner, we keep this thread alive long enough and I'll win by default.




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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 5:35:23 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I'd argue that a racist is also the first to bring it up since whenever he sees people of different races disagreeing his first thought is that the disagreement is racially motivated.
Where do you get this from?   How do you know who is racist?  
So your argument is, one is not racist as long as he never utters the word, regardless of stated racist views, and behavior indicating supremacist ideology?    It's one thing to argue one's case against another's idea.   It's entirely another to make inane accusations, spout personal insults based on paranoia, and a need to show this president doesn't belong...
For examples, see post #49, by MarsBonfire.

Being disrespectful, and condescending, because you feel the opponent has no right to be in the same room making his argument, given his ethnic background, is how some haters of Obama have been behaving.    
Anyway, you no doubt disagree with Jimmy Carter, because you monitor racism very closely, and know it is a figment of folks' imaginations.   M


I had no problem spotting the inane accusations and shades of paranoia in #49, I don't see where he was trying to show this president doesn't belong. I thought it was just another rant on how eveyone in the GOP is a racist and how his party by comparison is so superior. And yes I do get the feeling he feels no one on the right has a right to even live, let alone have an opinion. But I am not sure why your using him as an example.

As far as Carter goes, yea I think he was a total asshat for saying this and it will do niothing but help drive a wedge between the left and right.  No this doesn't mean I think racism is a figment of anyones imagination. I just heard my neighbors car leave and she has got to be one of the biggest racists on the block  Of course she is a liberal, so I guess that is ok though.

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 7:38:53 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

How do you know who is racist?
Whenever they use it in an argument in lieu of making a point in an attempt to rationalize conflicting views. Any person who considers another weaker, and in need of assistance simply because of their race IS, pragmatically, a racist regardless of their 'good intent'. Treating people and their argument equally, is equality.
quote:

Being disrespectful, and condescending, because you feel the opponent has no right to be in the same room making his argument, given his ethnic background, is how some haters of Obama have been behaving.
Irrelevant to the debate and opinionated; is there a point you're trying to make? The insecurity of anyone hearing the argument is their problem, and you should consider that disagreement is not an indication of hatred; at least from me.
quote:

Anyway, you no doubt disagree with Jimmy Carter, because you monitor racism very closely, and know it is a figment of folks' imaginations. M
No not being a racist, I do NOT consider it as Mr. Carter does. His prejudice requires consideration of a racist agenda.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 9/18/2009 7:40:38 AM >

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 7:58:37 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I'd argue that a racist is also the first to bring it up since whenever he sees people of different races disagreeing his first thought is that the disagreement is racially motivated.
Where do you get this from?   How do you know who is racist?  
So your argument is, one is not racist as long as he never utters the word, regardless of stated racist views, and behavior indicating supremacist ideology?    It's one thing to argue one's case against another's idea.   It's entirely another to make inane accusations, spout personal insults based on paranoia, and a need to show this president doesn't belong...
For examples, see post #49, by MarsBonfire.

Being disrespectful, and condescending, because you feel the opponent has no right to be in the same room making his argument, given his ethnic background, is how some haters of Obama have been behaving.    
Anyway, you no doubt disagree with Jimmy Carter, because you monitor racism very closely, and know it is a figment of folks' imaginations.   M
And tell me, just how do you discern that these people feel that way?  Because SOME idiots have revealed themselves to feel that way?  Because those idiots happen to align themselves with the same party as those who do not feel that way and who disagree with Obama strictly on his policies?  Am I racist because someone else who may well be a conservative AND racist is idiotic enough to think a picture of Obama with a bone in his nose is funny? 

As for marsbonfire's post, he is an excellent example of what the leftist I was listening to on the radio last night is talking about...the leftist who brings out the race card to decry anyone who disagrees with Obama and backs it up with examples of idiots.  I don't see Al Gore as being representative of the entire Democratic party...if I did, I'd believe they were all tree-hugging, global-warming alarmist hypocrites who want to only dig in my pocket to save people...some of them whose only problem is they won't get up off their lazy ass and save themselves.
I don't see Michael Moore as being representative of the entire Democratic party either.

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 8:31:31 AM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		I guess this needs to be said again, no one is saying all opposition to Obama is rooted in racism. However is there another explanation for stuff like the birther movement and pictures of the White House turned into a watermelon patch?

However why is the openly racist stuff being tolerated by the anti Obama movement? Why wasn't the guy with the witch doctor sign made to get rid of it by 50 or so of his fellow marchers? How blatant would it have to be for it to be unacceptable? If the guy was wearing a white robe or a brown shirt would that have gone too far?

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 10:48:14 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Why wasn't the guy with the witch doctor sign made to get rid of it by 50 or so of his fellow marchers? How blatant would it have to be for it to be unacceptable? If the guy was wearing a white robe or a brown shirt would that have gone too far?

Just a wild ass guess on my part ...

Freedom of speech?

Firm

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 10:58:32 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Just a wild ass guess on my part ...

Freedom of speech?

Firm ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY



Just because someone has a right to do something does not mean that it should be done, Firm. No one is denying the right of a racist to spout his racist pap. If they want to send out pictures of the white house turned into a watermelon patch or Obama as a witch doctor with a bone through his nose, then they have a constitutional right to do so. That doesn't mean it's not disgusting, racist and deplorable. The question was not "why didn't the government stop these people?" It's why no one at that demonstration saw fit to say "I don't like that you are turning a policy disagreement into a racist rant?". It is a valid question to ask why a group is allowing that to be brought among them without using their free speech rights to condemn it.

In a previous post, someone asked why Obama wasn't telling every congressman, especially the black caucus (which for some reason obviously completely unrelated to racial consideration the poster asserted "wouldn't make a move without him) to completely avoid any charges of racism. Interesting that when the question is suddenly turned to why the right isn't moving to stifle the racist elements in it's own ranks, suddenly it becomes a "free speech" issue.




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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 11:00:30 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I'd argue that a racist is also the first to bring it up since whenever he sees people of different races disagreeing his first thought is that the disagreement is racially motivated.

Where do you get this from?

Maybe the notion that unless you can read minds, the racism you perceive in other people is probably your own.

projection - Psychology - the tendency to ascribe to another person feelings, thoughts, or attitudes present in oneself, or to regard external reality as embodying such feelings, thoughts, etc., in some way. [ * ]

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/18/2009 11:02:19 AM >

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 11:06:43 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		For that to be projection, Master Kirata, wouldnt it have to be unfounded? umm.. guess best way to put that is to say that the one who being projected upon would not give any sign of what the projector is accusing them of.

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 11:31:26 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

For that to be projection, Master Kirata, wouldnt it have to be unfounded? umm.. guess best way to put that is to say that the one who being projected upon would not give any sign of what the projector is accusing them of.

Hello tazzy,

Actually, with projection, absent psychosis, there is usually something that can be pressed into service as a "hook" to hang it on, otherwise the projection couldn't be rationalized as reality.

Kirata






< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/18/2009 11:46:09 AM >

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RE: Jimmy Carter Calls Bullshit on the Drama... - 9/18/2009 11:39:08 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Why wasn't the guy with the witch doctor sign made to get rid of it by 50 or so of his fellow marchers? How blatant would it have to be for it to be unacceptable? If the guy was wearing a white robe or a brown shirt would that have gone too far?

Just a wild ass guess on my part ...

Freedom of speech?

Firm

50 people at a demonstration telling a guy to get rid of an offensive sign is a government restriction on speech? WTF!

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Profile   Post #: 100
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