RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right

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Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 11:23:16 AM)
Obama will never nominate a white male for the supreme court, why should we go on pretending here.

tazzygirl -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 11:24:55 AM)
Based on some of the white males i have seen in the political and judicial arenas... im not too sure i would nominate one either. And, frankly, i think the Judicial branch should represent the make-up of our country. for many many years, it was all white males. Then, heaven forbid, a woman made it in. Its now becoming more a blend... and thankfully so. Im looking forward to seeing what differences may emerge.

Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 11:28:03 AM)
At least you're honest about it. [sm=applause.gif] While reverse discrimination is very real (and all too obvious) its taboo to acknowledge it, we're supposed to go on pretending that none of this is happening, just as Spinner does. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Based on some of the white males i have seen in the political and judicial arenas... im not too sure i would nominate one either.

tazzygirl -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 11:36:56 AM)
I dont wear blinders. Nor am i afraid to admit what i am.... half white... half native american. Im tired of the lazy poor whining everytime i turn around about how they cant get jobs, yet, find a job flipping burgers beneath them. im tired of the rich bitching and moaning about the poor wanting more of what they have, while they ignore the fact that what they have relies, in part, upon the work of said poor. Im sick of insurance CEO's making millions, buying 18 homes, then rubber stamping denials across claims in their attempt to "save the company money". And, frankly, im sick of the idea that this country is currently ran on any kind of ism besides capitalism... money rules... those who have cling... those who dont whine... those in the middle keeps their heads down and hope and pray no one notices them. And who pays? we all do... and then we go back to whining about the rich and the poor... and stop looking to those who we put into office to take care of our issues. The financial market is a mess... between Bush and Obama... and 1.5 trillion dollars later.. and we are still losing jobs.. still hurting economically.. still worrying about health care. Obama was called a liar... big deal... he has been called worse. The idiot was called out on it.. Congress sanctioned him... AS WAS THEIR RIGHT TO DO SO... and Obama said let it go. End of story. I saw no racism.. didnt even think along those lines till i read a story posted by rule. When you get to that level.. all you see is green.. not black.. not white... but green.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 12:06:54 PM)
quote: Obama will never nominate a white male for the supreme court, why should we go on pretending here. ORIGINAL: Sanity Obama will never nominate a white male for the supreme court, why should we go on pretending here. The more you write, the more racist your statements seem become. Could you explain to me WHY after one judicial nomination, you have determined it reasonable to assume Obama will NEVER nominate a white male to the supreme court? We seem to have had liberal presidents before who nominated judges who agreed with their political agendas before, just as conservative presidents have done. I don't recall any great shuot that race was even a consideration, much less a determining one in their decisions. If I had said "Bush will NEVER nominate a black man to the supreme court" based on his first nomination, would you not be screaming "reverse racism"? Keep posting, Sanity. You're proving my point better than anything I could bring up.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 12:18:27 PM)
quote: While reverse discrimination is very real (and all too obvious) its taboo to acknowledge it, we're supposed to go on pretending that none of this is happening, just as Spinner does. ORIGINAL: Sanity You misstate my position, Sanity. My point is not that there is no case where any racist thought or action is taken against white males (the term reverse racism is ridiculous. Racism is racism). What I am saying is that the effect on the average white male of racism against white males is almost imperceptible compared to the effect on the average members of a minority group of racism against them. This does not mean it is any less wrong, or any less hurtful to those who experience it. It does, however, beg the question of why the small, isolated incidents are pointed at as the first things that need to be addressed in order to make things right. As an example: If 1,000,000 people per year die from heart disease and 3 people die from tarantula bites, it is not a reasonable thing to say "We shouldn't worry about curing heart disease until we do something about those damned tarantula bites." Similarly, if a street design flaw causes 100 people to be struck by cars and killed and also causes 10 people not to be able to find a parking place when they need one, it is unreasonable to claim that the big problem to be addressed is the shortage of parking.

Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 12:34:50 PM)
Sonia Sotomayor, Van Jones, The "Reverend" Jeremiah Wright, and the Obama Justice Department handling of the Philadelphia Black Panthers voter intimidation case all scream that Barack Obama is a racist. If it makes me a racist in your eyes because I refuse to turn away from such facts and because I recognize that reverse discrimination is thriving in this country then so be it, because your opinion is among the least of my concerns.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 12:39:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Sonia Sotomayor, Van Jones, The "Reverend" Jeremiah Wright, and the Obama Justice Department handling of the Philadelphia Black Panthers voter intimidation case all scream that Barack Obama is a racist. Once again you continue to prove my points. Van Jones made some comments that I agree were racist. Jeremiah Write also spoke some comments that were racially based and deplorable. The entire black panther case involves two black panther members who looked intimidating and shouted some racially inappropriate comments at white voters. Do you see any of these matters or all of them added together to make you think that the "reverse racism problem" you seem so upset about is in any way as widespread in effect or systematically embedded as the problem towards the other side? But they are enough to convince you Obama is a racist. However, if a black person uses the same criteria (associations, non repudiation of comments made by others and less than desirable enforcement) and someone says "racist", then you scream how you're being tarred unfairly with the brush. I still await your reasoning regarding why the only or even the most important reason Sotomayor was nominated had to do with her race. It seems that if my opinion is the least of your concerns, then showing that your opinions are anything more than the very racism you seem to decry when it may be pointed in anything like your general direction is almost as close to irrelevant to you.

Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 12:43:41 PM)
Why do I have to explain recent history to you. Are you foprgetful, or are you being purposely obtuse? Sotamayor's quote wherein she claimed to be wiser than a white man, combined with the fact that Obama didn't withdraw her nomination immediately after it surfaced, is the most offensive aspect of the Sotamayor scandal.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 12:55:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Sonia Sotomayor, Van Jones, The "Reverend" Jeremiah Wright, and the Obama Justice Department handling of the Philadelphia Black Panthers voter intimidation case all scream that Barack Obama is a racist. Once again you continue to prove my points. Van Jones made some comments that I agree were racist. Jeremiah Write also spoke some comments that were racially based and deplorable. The entire black panther case involves two black panther members who looked intimidating and shouted some racially inappropriate comments at white voters. Do you see any of these matters or all of them added together to make you think that the "reverse racism problem" you seem so upset about is in any way as widespread in effect or systematically embedded as the problem towards the other side? But they are enough to convince you Obama is a racist. However, if a black person uses the same criteria (associations, non repudiation of comments made by others and less than desirable enforcement) and someone says "racist", then you scream how you're being tarred unfairly with the brush. I still await your reasoning regarding why the only or even the most important reason Sotomayor was nominated had to do with her race. It seems that if my opinion is the least of your concerns, then showing that your opinions are anything more than the very racism you seem to decry when it may be pointed in anything like your general direction is almost as close to irrelevant to you. Excusing "some" racism, because you perceive "other racism" isn't really a good position, IMO. Why not judge everyone on the quality of their character, and not on the color of their skin? Firm

Arpig -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 12:58:52 PM)
quote: If it makes me a racist in your eyes because I refuse to turn away from such facts and because I recognize that reverse discrimination is thriving in this country then so be it, because your opinion is among the least of my concerns. Suck it up! I'm a white guy who spent half his life in Asia where I was a distinct minority....and oddly enough I have only been pissed off by racism once (when a cabbie in Japan refused to drive my brother home). All this rampant reverse racism...well it just doesn't touch me in my day to day life.

Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 12:59:05 PM)
See, here's where the racism comes in, right here. A black democratic president can get away with this kind of shit. Worshiping with his family under a Jeremiah Wright for twenty years, bringing a Van Jones into his administration, nominating a racist jurist to the supreme court, dropping charges against people of his race who were videotaped intimidating voters of another race.... And people defend him. quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Sonia Sotomayor, Van Jones, The "Reverend" Jeremiah Wright, and the Obama Justice Department handling of the Philadelphia Black Panthers voter intimidation case all scream that Barack Obama is a racist. Once again you continue to prove my points. Van Jones made some comments that I agree were racist. Jeremiah Write also spoke some comments that were racially based and deplorable. The entire black panther case involves two black panther members who looked intimidating and shouted some racially inappropriate comments at white voters. Do you see any of these matters or all of them added together to make you think that the "reverse racism problem" you seem so upset about is in any way as widespread in effect or systematically embedded as the problem towards the other side? But they are enough to convince you Obama is a racist. However, if a black person uses the same criteria (associations, non repudiation of comments made by others and less than desirable enforcement) and someone says "racist", then you scream how you're being tarred unfairly with the brush. I still await your reasoning regarding why the only or even the most important reason Sotomayor was nominated had to do with her race. It seems that if my opinion is the least of your concerns, then showing that your opinions are anything more than the very racism you seem to decry when it may be pointed in anything like your general direction is almost as close to irrelevant to you.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 1:02:34 PM)
quote: Excusing "some" racism, because you perceive "other racism" isn't really a good position, IMO. Why not judge everyone on the quality of their character, and not on the color of their skin? Firm quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY I agree with you entirely, Firm. I hope I have made clear that I do not support or excuse any racism. I do however, consider that the attempt by some to paint white males as more frequent or more put upon victims of racism than members of minority groups is both disingenuous and completely unrealistic.

Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 1:05:31 PM)
I won't suck it up. I won't tolerate racism. And I won't apologize for having one single standard that I use to judge such things by. quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: If it makes me a racist in your eyes because I refuse to turn away from such facts and because I recognize that reverse discrimination is thriving in this country then so be it, because your opinion is among the least of my concerns. Suck it up! I'm a white guy who spent half his life in Asia where I was a distinct minority....and oddly enough I have only been pissed off by racism once (when a cabbie in Japan refused to drive my brother home). All this rampant reverse racism...well it just doesn't touch me in my day to day life.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 1:14:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales quote: Excusing "some" racism, because you perceive "other racism" isn't really a good position, IMO. Why not judge everyone on the quality of their character, and not on the color of their skin? Firm quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY I agree with you entirely, Firm. I hope I have made clear that I do not support or excuse any racism. I do however, consider that the attempt by some to paint white males as more frequent or more put upon victims of racism than members of minority groups is both disingenuous and completely unrealistic. sigh Spinner, you just said you agreed with me, but you did it again, in the next breath. Why tell a white to "suck it up" when he is the victim of racism, because "only a few" of his race are victims? As well, I would challenge you to "prove" that whites are less victimized than any other group. If only ... let's say ... 30% of "whites" are victims of racism, but 100% of blacks are ... do the math. It's close to the same number of people, depending on how you want to define the races and racism. Why give any cover to any racism at all? Firm

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 1:21:19 PM)
quote: Why do I have to explain recent history to you. Are you foprgetful, or are you being purposely obtuse? Sotamayor's quote wherein she claimed to be wiser than a white man, combined with the fact that Obama didn't withdraw her nomination immediately after it surfaced, is the most offensive aspect of the Sotamayor scandal. ORIGINAL: Sanity No...you have to explain to me why you feel the need to misquote what was arguably a poorly worded statement "She never said "she was wiser than a white man" she said "I would HOPE that a wise latina woman, with the range of experiences she has would come to a wiser decision than a white man". Of course that was not referring to anything other than pure genetic superiority because there is no systemic problem that latinas, blacks and other minority groups have faced that white males have not. I would also kind of like to have explained why no one seemed to mentions "She thinks that a woman is wiser than a man" but "She thinks latins are wiser than whites" is the shouting point. No worry about sexism when you can cry racism. I also would like you to explain why you feel that the only reason that that statement was not enough of a reason to repudiate her in the name of racial equality (or "throw her under a bus" as you would have called it if he had done so) makes Obama's decision to nominate her one based solely on her race or gender.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 1:31:35 PM)
quote: As well, I would challenge you to "prove" that whites are less victimized than any other group. ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY I'm glad you asked, Firm...check the post I left in the other race discussion: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2806594/mpage_6/tm.htm Post #118. Or check out this link: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3495/is_2_48/ai_97873146/ Let's see: Male whites having to deal with being called an unplesant name vs a 50% lower chance of being given even the chance to get a job. Do you really think that the first should be given more import than the second? My point remains the same. I decry those who didn't have a word to say about racisim when it affected other groups and now screams when the slightest taste of it is pointed their way. I do not tell them to suck it up. I tell them to join in common cause with all victims of racism to put an end to all of it

FirmhandKY -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 1:55:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales quote: As well, I would challenge you to "prove" that whites are less victimized than any other group. ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY I'm glad you asked, Firm...check the post I left in the other race discussion: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2806594/mpage_6/tm.htm Post #118. Or check out this link: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3495/is_2_48/ai_97873146/ Let's see: Male whites having to deal with being called an unplesant name vs a 50% lower chance of being given even the chance to get a job. Do you really think that the first should be given more import than the second? My point remains the same. I decry those who didn't have a word to say about racisim when it affected other groups and now screams when the slightest taste of it is pointed their way. I do not tell them to suck it up. I tell them to join in common cause with all victims of racism to put an end to all of it Your first link is bad. I addressed your second link already: culture is not considered. Firm

MarsBonfire -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 3:05:34 PM)
Okay, so... Sanity and Firm are both against racisim against whites.... but they are in favor of the more traditional types of racisim against minorities. Right. Got it. Not surprised, but I do indeed "get it."

Politesub53 -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/19/2009 3:24:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Sonia Sotomayor, Van Jones, The "Reverend" Jeremiah Wright, and the Obama Justice Department handling of the Philadelphia Black Panthers voter intimidation case all scream that Barack Obama is a racist. If it makes me a racist in your eyes because I refuse to turn away from such facts and because I recognize that reverse discrimination is thriving in this country then so be it, because your opinion is among the least of my concerns. Obama racist ?....... Shakes head in dismay. Your claim borders on hysteria/paranoia, sadly it doesnt suprise me that you made it.

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