Is the media abandoning Obama? (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 10:04:12 AM)


Especially on "Health Care Reform"?

First, from CBS News:

Five Health Care Promises Obama Won't Keep
By Stephanie Condon
Sept. 21, 2009

On the campaign trail last year, President Obama laid out several specific promises for health care -- both during the Democratic primaries and during the general election campaign. And in his first year in office, President Obama has made comprehensive health care reform the centerpiece of his domestic agenda.

But what happened to those promises?



AP:

FACT CHECK: Coverage requirement enforced with tax
RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press Writer
Mon Sep 21, 7:55 pm ET

WASHINGTON – Memo to President Barack Obama: It's a tax. Obama insisted this weekend on national television that requiring people to carry health insurance — and fining them if they don't — isn't the same thing as a tax increase. But the language of Democratic bills to revamp the nation's health care system doesn't quibble. Both the House bill and the Senate Finance Committee proposal clearly state that the fines would be a tax.

And the reason the fines are in the legislation is to enforce the coverage requirement.

"If you put something in the Internal Revenue Code, and you tell the IRS to collect it, I think that's a tax," said Clint Stretch, head of the tax policy group for Deloitte, a major accounting firm. "If you don't pay, the person who's going to come and get it is going to be from the IRS."

...

In an interview that aired Sunday on ABC's "This Week," Obama insisted that the insurance requirement is not a tax.

...


It wouldn't be the first asterisk added to Obama's campaign pledge on taxes. Earlier this year, he signed a tobacco tax increase to pay for children's health insurance. Even that can be read as a violation of his expansive campaign promise.

"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12, 2008. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly promised "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."




Anyone else find reporting from the MSM that covers Obama like this?

Firm




mnottertail -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 10:06:26 AM)

nah, they never assumed maintenance of him in the first place.

Ron




SpinnerofTales -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 10:27:04 AM)

So what is the point to be discussed here, Firm? Whether or not the penalty for non-insurance is actually a tax or whether the MSM (and I will refrain from any comment of the state of the non-MSM on both sides) is actually showing a willingness to jump on Obama just the same as they would and have jumped upon every other president?




FirmhandKY -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 10:46:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

So what is the point to be discussed here, Firm? Whether or not the penalty for non-insurance is actually a tax or whether the MSM (and I will refrain from any comment of the state of the non-MSM on both sides) is actually showing a willingness to jump on Obama just the same as they would and have jumped upon every other president?

It's the apparent change in how the media handles reporting about Obama. That's the title of the thread, and the point of the two articles.

Despite what you may believe, many believe that the major media outlets did not do their job on vetting a major presidential candidate prior to the election, and damn little journalism (old style) for the first months of his tenure in office.

Is that about to change, and why?

I say yes, and primarily because he has disappointed the media, and they are about to turn on him like sharks after chum.

It'll take a little while longer, and there will still be defenders in the media (forever), but I think his days of not being challenged in the major media outlets is coming to an end.

Firm




mnottertail -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 11:00:00 AM)

Firm,

vetting? why all this vetting? Palin wasn't vetted by her own camp, let alone the media, at first. There were alotta pretty damn good-slanted articles about her first week or so, yeah, some bad ones too. Look. Much ado about nothing. Bush was not despised of the media out of the chute, he earned that. Every new president as far back as I remember was the darling of the media his first 100 days, and invariably things degraded sharply from there.

It is the nature of the beast, the advertising image that is created, the party and insider press releases are parceled out, and dwindle and day to day reality never matches up with the initial hype over time, and so it is always a roller-coaster ride.

SSDD.

Ron

Ron




Mercnbeth -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 11:21:17 AM)

~ Fast Reply ~


Remember, way back when, while the rhetoric from the campaign was being collected and it was pointed out how many promises the Obama Campaign was making to the various, and mostly liberal, special interest groups? He committed his 'CHANGE!' to every possible pocket of voters, from 'Save the Whales' to gay activists, from illegal alien amnesty to, based upon his 'green czar' appointment, 9/11 conspiracy theorists. He's not delivered to any of them. However, that's only half of his problem.

The other half is the result of his lack of management experience. He's never run anything. He's never stayed in one position long enough to understand what it takes to administer to a large staff, let alone deal with the massive bureaucracy that surrounds the President. It was hoped he was a fast learner; but results to date prove otherwise.

Although it's so far been forgotten, he played the 'crisis' card regarding health insurance prior to the August recess. When that 'hail Mary' pass went incomplete it allowed the opposition to point out the faults of the initiative, real and imagined. It was the only card a party, with no practical power could wield. When no 'crisis' resulted, integrity was lost. Unfortunately for the President, people who currently have insurance work. They aren't worried about keeping it. They aren't worried about people who don't have it. They are worried about keeping their jobs. When the Administration points to the stock market as an indicator of how the economy is turning around; that doesn't play well with the employment troops on the front lines working for companies still downsizing and NOT investing in new projects in this environment with new taxes and/or 'fees' and regulations promised by the Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid led Congress. Stock market up - unemployment up; dare say it seems downright Republican.

Then there are the deployed troops. Basically the campaigning Obama said; "Were staying in Afghanistan and we are there to win the war on terror!" Well reality there is that even with a commitment for 25,000 more troops made earlier this year the commander in the field has told the White House he needs more: The top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan has warned that the mission "will likely result in failure" if more troops are not sent within the next year. Meanwhile leaders from his party think differently. And even some key leaders in Obama's Democratic Party have expressed growing doubts about sending more forces to Afghanistan. House speaker Nancy Pelosi said last week she does not "think there's a great deal of support for sending more troops to Afghanistan in the country or the Congress." One of the many corners the President painted for himself in the first 9 months of his administration.

The problem with pissing off the left side of the aisle is they have little patience and are not silent in their discontent. Once the health care Bill fails, or worse, if a version like the once coming out of Baucus' Committee passes, rewarding insurance companies and not including a government option; no amount of TV appearances and jokes on Letterman will be able to swing back support.

At this point, it's obvious that Obama is a great speaker, great campaigner, great promise maker; who can't run an office, manage his staff, or carry out a business plan. His resume documented that. Now it seems as the last echos of the shouts of 'CHANGE!' have died down, so has the support.

On the positive side, as intelligent as he is, there is hope he can learn on the job and turn things around.




rulemylife -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 11:47:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

It's the apparent change in how the media handles reporting about Obama. That's the title of the thread, and the point of the two articles.


Now wait, you've assured me repeatedly that the media has a liberal bias.

So how can this possibly be true?

quote:

Despite what you may believe, many believe that the major media outlets did not do their job on vetting a major presidential candidate prior to the election, and damn little journalism (old style) for the first months of his tenure in office.

Is that about to change, and why?

I say yes, and primarily because he has disappointed the media, and they are about to turn on him like sharks after chum.

It'll take a little while longer, and there will still be defenders in the media (forever), but I think his days of not being challenged in the major media outlets is coming to an end.



So then the media is not really liberally biased and you are admitting your previous mistaken idea that they were?




mnottertail -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 11:50:30 AM)

rule,

It ain't as if they would abandon and would be front-paging and lead storying ol' hipshooter mccain every night.

Ron




subrob1967 -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 11:59:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

It's the apparent change in how the media handles reporting about Obama. That's the title of the thread, and the point of the two articles.


Now wait, you've assured me repeatedly that the media has a liberal bias.

So how can this possibly be true?

quote:

Despite what you may believe, many believe that the major media outlets did not do their job on vetting a major presidential candidate prior to the election, and damn little journalism (old style) for the first months of his tenure in office.

Is that about to change, and why?

I say yes, and primarily because he has disappointed the media, and they are about to turn on him like sharks after chum.

It'll take a little while longer, and there will still be defenders in the media (forever), but I think his days of not being challenged in the major media outlets is coming to an end.



So then the media is not really liberally biased and you are admitting your previous mistaken idea that they were?



Sorry, Rule

The media CAN have a liberal bias, AND turn against Obama when Obama fails to keep even one of his multiple promises to said liberal media correspondents.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 12:09:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Now wait, you've assured me repeatedly that the media has a liberal bias.Ron

When there is an 'elephant in the room' you have to talk about it; even if it's a 'donkey' and you love 'donkeys'.




mnottertail -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 12:10:43 PM)

How in the hell did my name get in there Merc?

LOL,

Ron




kittinSol -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 12:12:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So then the media is not really liberally biased and you are admitting your previous mistaken idea that they were?



Good luck with that [sm=rofl.gif] .




Mercnbeth -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 12:26:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
How in the hell did my name get in there Merc?
LOL,
Ron

Ron
You are Always on my mind!
[sm=flowers.gif]
LOL






SpinnerofTales -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 1:14:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The problem with pissing off the left side of the aisle is they have little patience and are not silent in their discontent. Once the health care Bill fails, or worse, if a version like the once coming out of Baucus' Committee passes, rewarding insurance companies and not including a government option; no amount of TV appearances and jokes on Letterman will be able to swing back support.


While I agree there is a learning curve here, I think you overestimate the chance of losing the left. Who could the republican party nominate and more importantly, who would the republican party nominate that the left would want to see in office more than they want to see Obama there?




Mercnbeth -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 1:24:27 PM)

quote:

While I agree there is a learning curve here, I think you overestimate the chance of losing the left. Who could the republican party nominate and more importantly, who would the republican party nominate that the left would want to see in office more than they want to see Obama there?


The answer is the result of the 2000 and 2004.

I don't think they will ever lose the left. They'll just go back to being disenfranchised.

The 2008 election should not have been as close as it was based upon the candidates provided by the RNC as well as the 'popularity' of President Bush.

Of course, like Clinton, Obama can 'go Republican' and similarly turn around his polling numbers. Unlike Clinton, I'd expect him to not squander any regained integrity equity on an intern and waste his second term should that occur. Unencumbered by the 'good intent' but pragmatically impossible rhetoric of his first campaign Obama may be capable of tremendous accomplishment.




SpinnerofTales -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 1:55:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


quote:

Of course, like Clinton, Obama can 'go Republican' and similarly turn around his polling numbers. Unlike Clinton, I'd expect him to not squander any regained integrity equity on an intern and waste his second term should that occur. Unencumbered by the 'good intent' but pragmatically impossible rhetoric of his first campaign Obama may be capable of tremendous accomplishment.


I have to agree with you on a couple of points. First, I have no doubt that we will ever see Obama in a sex scandle. Michelle would kill him. No "stand by your man" political wife. No "God has forgiven him and so have I", Obama keeps it in his pants or he's a dead man.

Second, I don't think he has to "Go republican" to acomplish a lot of good. I think he has to fully learn the difference between being a candidate and a president. There is always a learning curve and how well and quickly one masters it often determines the shape of the administration.

But I must admit, though he has done a lot of things that disapoint me, I'm not ready to give up on the guy completely. One thing he said, more than once, stays with me and defines what I feel is both his promise and my loyalty: We must not let the perfect become the enemy of the necessary. That's not a bad place to start.




TheHeretic -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 6:06:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Is that about to change, and why?




Not complicated, Firm.  The half of the population not swooning over the President are a legitimate market for news and information. 




Musicmystery -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 6:08:27 PM)

quote:

Is the media abandoning Obama?


...or gee, is it possible they weren't on his staff in the first place......




Sanity -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 6:27:14 PM)


A solid portion of those who voted for "Hope" and "Change" will learn to resent being spoon fed garbage after a certain point. The blatant cheerleading for Obama by MSNBC and CNN and the New York Times, etc., has to be a constant insult to the intelligence of anyone with half a mind, and the cheerleaders themselves will inevitably  tire of their own hollow reporting after a time.



quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Is that about to change, and why?




Not complicated, Firm.  The half of the population not swooning over the President are a legitimate market for news and information. 




servantforuse -> RE: Is the media abandoning Obama? (9/22/2009 6:46:12 PM)

The day after Obama was elected, Chris Mathews said on his show that it was his job to see that the Obama administration was a success. No bias there.




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