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RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/26/2009 6:48:04 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


The point is this was not some contrived controversy by fringe political opponents if it was taken seriously enough to be investigated by Congress.




LOL.  That's right.  And they found no basis for the charges.  Remember, Reagan accomplished everything he did with the opposing party in control of Congress.  That's for another thread, though.


Ok, let's try this one more time.

The point we were arguing was the merit of the allegations.

The claims against Reagan had enough merit to be investigated, the claims against Obama did not.

And you seem to be conveniently overlooking the fact there were multiple convictions in the Iran-Contra case.



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RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/26/2009 6:50:10 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

yes, and remember that 'with the opposing party in congress' the largest tax cut in history was enacted. so the democrats gave you the tax cut, making all republicans whacko taxers, and destroyers of america. you cannot argue they didnt and out of the other side of your mouth say that George Bush was a tool and that the democratic congress fucked it up. So either Reagan brought down the wall (and not much more) or George Bush is a fucktard of the highest order and republicans shouldnt be elected, you may choose whichever you want, but only one. any other spin is a lie.



Sorry, Ron, but I'm not taking that spin (nice try at insisting there can't be any other, though).

Congress went along with Reagan because they could plainly see what was blowing on the wind, and, as politicians keep doing right up to today, they covered their asses, and went with it.

(Now how this truth speaks to the current ability of a President whose party controls both Houses of Congress and his apparent inability to get a signature bit of legislation through, is another topic entirely.)



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RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/26/2009 6:52:06 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		RML, until you quit pretending (or educate yourself past the ignorance) that Iran-Contra is the same as the October Surprise, I'm not even going to waste my time.



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RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/26/2009 6:58:41 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

RML, until you quit pretending (or educate yourself past the ignorance) that Iran-Contra is the same as the October Surprise, I'm not even going to waste my time.




See, this is why you're so much fun Heretic.

When you run out of arguments you start to get all pouty and accuse the other person of being ignorant, all the while unable to explain why.

And you do this consistently with everyone.

It used to annoy me but I've learned over time to make a game of it and see how quickly I can get you to that point.

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RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/26/2009 7:18:38 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		You are the one who can't seem to tell the diffeence between a whacko conspiracy theory of 1980 (investigated, just as Congress investigated much of the nonsense against Clinton, until he stomped on his own dick, or U.F.O.'s for that matter), and a legitimate scandal that broke in Reagan's second term.

Ignorance, willful or otherwise.  Not fun, and incredibly repetitive from you.

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/26/2009 7:35:05 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You are the one who can't seem to tell the diffeence between a whacko conspiracy theory of 1980 (investigated, just as Congress investigated much of the nonsense against Clinton, until he stomped on his own dick, or U.F.O.'s for that matter), and a legitimate scandal that broke in Reagan's second term.

Ignorance, willful or otherwise.  Not fun, and incredibly repetitive from you.


Once again.................

The "whacko conspiracy theory of 1980" had its basis in fact as proven by the later revelation of the Iran-Contra plan.

Whether Reagan was blameless or not is irrelevant, the point I am arguing is the story was not a total fabrication as were the stories about Obama's citizenship and Clinton's drug ring.

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/26/2009 7:40:58 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
The "whacko conspiracy theory of 1980" had its basis in fact as proven by the later revelation of the Iran-Contra plan.





No, RML, it did not.  That is a stupid lie, and will remain a stupid lie no matter how many times you tell it.  If, on the other hand, you are stating this utter falsehood because you believe it to be true, then you are displaying your complete ignorance of the facts.

Either way, I'm bored.

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 5:51:46 AM   
MistressCamille


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


That doesn't follow. Why should I agree to let you forget the extreme, beyond extreme, fanatical partisanship that the left flaunted while Bush was president.

Can you name even one good reason?



Yeah I can. It was based on reality. If it was extreme it was only because the truth was so far removed from what Bush emulated.

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 7:26:33 AM   
Sanity


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Well then its settled. Anything goes. Any indictment of a sitting president, any accusation or challenge against his or her honor is perfectly acceptable so long as it can be rationalized in some fashion.

Thank you for your help in setting the argument straight on that point.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressCamille

Yeah I can. It was based on reality. If it was extreme it was only because the truth was so far removed from what Bush emulated.



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RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 7:35:23 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Well then its settled. Anything goes. Any indictment of a sitting president, any accusation or challenge against his or her honor is perfectly acceptable so long as it can be rationalized in some fashion.

Unh, doesn't that kinda fall under freedom of speech?

K.

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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 8:34:44 AM   
Sanity


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It would be kinda nice if it applied evenly, wouldn't it?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Unh, doesn't that kinda fall under freedom of speech?

K.


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RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 8:46:45 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

It would be kinda nice if it applied evenly, wouldn't it?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity



Once again you mistake the freedom of speech as the freedom from people asking that you shut up. As of now, I have not heard of a single legal or coercive action being taken to stop the birthers or any other loonies screaming nonsense.

Again, I ask how anyone's free speech rights are being violated when they're not listened to or asked to quiet down?

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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 8:50:57 AM   
Lostkitten3


Posts: 179
Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: offline 		I see the Birther zealots much the same way I see the 9/11 conspiracy zealots. People take things to extremes.
And lead other people down paths that they should not tread, or wouldn't without the brainwashing on T.V.
Both sides have their extremists. To call everyone on one side or another an extremist, and compare them all equally is folly.

The subject is not Reagan, Bush or Clinton. They all made mistakes. SOme larger and more globally effecting than others. The point here is, Obama is clealy a citizen of the U.S. and the religious freaks (yes another extremist group in the us) are trying to scare people into buying a place in heaven.
It's sad really.

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RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 11:26:29 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		The thing that does strike me as a bit odd about the whole Birther movement is the way that nobody in the legislature or either party noticed that Obama wasn't an American citizen until somebody started whining about it on the internet.

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RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 12:07:52 PM   
DesiresMerlot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Hold on a mo'... are some people on this thread really trying to argue that it's okay to discredit Obama for xenophobic reasons, because Bush was discredited for political reasons? Astonishing shit  .


What's with the 'xenophobic' and 'racist' tirades?  People overuse the "racist" accusation way too much anymore.

Don't like the guy's policies?  You're a RACIST!  Mad because your guy didn't get elected?  YOU'RE A RACIST!

Such generalizations get old.

Is it so hard to believe some are clinging to such silly things as the birther movement out of nothing more than sour grapes for their guy losing, irregardless of race?  Stranger things happen every day.

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 12:24:27 PM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		Your suggestion that the Obamanation should not even be required to prove his eligiblity is absurd. No one is above the law in this country, not even the President. "The President is not the King of England." ~ Nancy Pelosi ~

Little known fact here is that California's attorney general never investigated the Obamanation's eligibility as required by state law. That in itself makes the election invalid. On top of that they have found many inconsistencies in the copy of the birth certificate that was released, not the original copy.

Also, at the time Obama was born in Hawaii, there was some kind of Hawaiian law in effect at the time, that declared if his father was not a citizen, he could not be a citizen either. Something along those lines.

I will say this about McCain as well. He was born on a military base in Panama, which made him ineligible as well. You can't just pass laws retroactively, and declare people eligible for the Presidency. It doesn't work that way.

There's a reason we require a natural born citizen, since theoretically they would be totally loyal to the citizens of this country. We both know neither Obama or McCain are putting legal Americans first on any issue. They are both globalists.

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RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 12:42:00 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		so can you point me to all the birther movements against any other politician that's made it as far as the presidency?
Im calling Bollocks on it being simply sour grapes on behalf of the birthers.
When you add irrationality, ignorance, stupidity, paranoia, fear and hate,  racism is often the least of the results.
The birthers are bonkers in my opinion for what thats worth


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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 12:53:24 PM   
DesiresMerlot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

so can you point me to all the birther movements against any other politician that's made it as far as the presidency?


Can you point me to any other president that's had the slightest crack that allowed for such to happen?

There were accusations against McCain's citizenship too...I have little doubt there would be a segment with sour grapes that would attack his citizenship if he were elected.

I'm not arguing that the birther's aren't bonkers...I agree with ya on that.  I just don't see the racism there.   I know my personal dislike for Obama has abolutely nothing to do with race (I'd vote for the black president in "24" for instance were it an option lol....) but you have no idea how many times I've been accused of racism for disliking Obama's policies.

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 1:15:58 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Your suggestion that the Obamanation should not even be required to prove his eligiblity is absurd. No one is above the law in this country, not even the President. "The President is not the King of England." ~ Nancy Pelosi ~

Little known fact here is that California's attorney general never investigated the Obamanation's eligibility as required by state law. That in itself makes the election invalid. On top of that they have found many inconsistencies in the copy of the birth certificate that was released, not the original copy.

Also, at the time Obama was born in Hawaii, there was some kind of Hawaiian law in effect at the time, that declared if his father was not a citizen, he could not be a citizen either. Something along those lines.

I will say this about McCain as well. He was born on a military base in Panama, which made him ineligible as well. You can't just pass laws retroactively, and declare people eligible for the Presidency. It doesn't work that way.

There's a reason we require a natural born citizen, since theoretically they would be totally loyal to the citizens of this country. We both know neither Obama or McCain are putting legal Americans first on any issue. They are both globalists.



And when a 4-engined bomber crashed into the Empire State building, it didn't collapse....

These allegations are beneath contempt, and repeating them, and endless variations of them, only serves to bring people to the defense of the President, and to make it easy for those supporters to smear the legitimate opposition to his policies with your idiocy.

He won.  Get over it, and contribute constructively to defeating him at the polls in 3 and 2, as established by the Constitution. 





_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Anti-Obama Group Rolls Out New Birther Informercial... - 9/27/2009 1:31:22 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls
Little known fact here is that California's attorney general never investigated the Obamanation's eligibility as required by state law. That in itself makes the election invalid. On top of that they have found many inconsistencies in the copy of the birth certificate that was released, not the original copy.

Little known because it is made up.

quote:

Also, at the time Obama was born in Hawaii, there was some kind of Hawaiian law in effect at the time, that declared if his father was not a citizen, he could not be a citizen either. Something along those lines.

No such law existed nor would ever be constitutional after the 14th amendment was passed.

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Profile   Post #: 140
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