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To take or not? - 10/6/2009 1:25:18 PM

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So apparently Carol and I have reached an critical juncture in our relationship. Not that this is the first such turning point nor do I expect it to be the last... life being what it is and all. But Carol, for the first time, is seriously questioning

a) Whether it is good for her to be my slave (as I define it)
b) Whether my leadership is good, in general.
c) Whether she wants to be a slave or not.

I'm not entirely sure what's going on or why -- my best guess is things are just all churned up by the stresses of our recent move and now living in a foreign country. But whatever it is, things are decidedly not rosy between us. This is where I get to put my money where my mouth is as it were. I am quite deliberately NOT mastering her for this particular decision. While I understand that to many, it is the very act of being a master to take the woman in question. In fact, it would be oh so easy for me to do just that. But this is where my concerns about consent rear their ugly head. I could take the choice away from her, but if I did so, I've also removed consent. And so I don't do so. I have stepped back and am allowing her space to think it through. (And let's discuss how annoying it is for me to relinquish control in that way *laughs*).

Me personally, I'm on pins & needles wondering how my marriage will look in a few days. Personally, I'm betting strongly that this will be one of those "that which does not kill you makes you stronger" moments. I am hoping that she will, for the first time, actually consciously choose slavery and that conscious choice will bolster her. And, despite all the momentary drama, I remain confident that so long as we continue to walk hand in hand, then any future structure of our marriage, M/s, D/s or something different will also be good for us.

Anyway, I post this probably to score the sympathy vote for a difficult period in our lives, but more importantly, I thought it was worthwhile to post when things were NOT going so swimmingly. Stay tuned for next week's exciting installment and find out whether I'm still a master or not.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 1:28:15 PM

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I've been here three times. Twice, my way prevailed. Once, it didn't.

Ultimately, what happens is less about you than it is about the configuration of all 10^51st bits of nothingness whizzing about the universe.

Good luck, for what it's worth.

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 1:35:51 PM

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If I was in Carol's position I would want him to forcefully and purposely let me know that he was still there for me. That he wanted to still lead me.
I would want to know that he still couldn't get enough of me. I would want to know that he still cherished and loved me.
If he backed down, I might just look at that as weakness. One of my biggest draws to him is his confidence and unrelentless pursuit of me.
I would never want that to end even when I was at a crossroads.

edited to add....good luck.

< Message edited by Aileen1968 -- 10/6/2009 1:36:12 PM >

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RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 1:45:59 PM

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And if she decides no........which is more important, a relationship, or a M/s relationship?

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 1:49:38 PM

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Self examination is rarely a bad thing. She'll prolly just find out she is anxious about the move and the change......needs a little time to center.

Keep on keeping on, until it shakes out, be there to listen, not convince for the time being.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 1:54:02 PM

RCdc

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I wouldn't say to 'take' the woman you want, but if I was in her position I would desire the man to still be exercising his authority. She doesn't have to decide or choose (pressure) but having authority in place would be vital.

And it's just as vital for you to make clear what you really want and not walk on egg shells around the issue UNLESS she is the most important and not the type of relationship that you have is. Otherwise you may risk losing both.

Love to you bothxxxx

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 2:04:32 PM

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Something to keep in mind:

When you're in a submissive mindset, but unsure, what you desperately want is for the Dominant to project certainty, to Tell You How It's Gonna Be.

When you AREN'T in a submissive mindset, and are unsure, what you desperately want is to be given some freedom, to Let You Decide For Yourself.

These mindsets are indistinguishable until after the fact.

Again, good luck.

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 2:05:10 PM

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So... wowie, don't take it.
Many years ago I was pretty much a slave in my marriage. He made all the decisions. I cooked what he liked, did what he wanted and had very little control of how my life would go. It was ... natural for me to let things be run by someone else at that time in my life.
Somewhere in the 6th year of our marriage he had this.. life change. It was not a new job or country, instead it was religion. Up until that point I was on board with everything, although not always happily. He gave me a choice, change my religion or we would he to part. On the surface, it seemed small thing. I was not particularly into my (our) religion.

He could have ordered it.. I MIGHT Have listened, but I doubt it. It was not right for me at the time. I was not given time to mull it over and consider if this was good for me. It was as if my opinion did not matter at all. And that is when things changed for me. I had allowed him full power in our life. Not because I had full trust in him, but because I had less faith in me. I could see that our marriage was all about him and not about us. I was insignificant in the scheme of things.

Give her time to consider what you have.

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 2:22:26 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Self examination is rarely a bad thing. She'll prolly just find out she is anxious about the move and the change......needs a little time to center.

Keep on keeping on, until it shakes out, be there to listen, not convince for the time being.

Ron

The two times that I asked to terminate the M/s relationship I'm in, were times of change and personal emotional struggle.

As Ron mentioned here........I was left to sort through my feelings and confusion, still with the comfort of his presence and care........but with the understanding that it had to be entirely my decision. He made no attempt to sway my decision bar emphasising that he didn't want to lose me. There was no pressure.

I still have times when I question whether it's *good for me* because it's so encompassing , involves all sorts of things like dependency and over years, a certain amount of conditioning.

The *self-examination* thing is quite tiring and time-consuming, for me at least, but are times of reflection on why I've chosen this life, and with the idea of it *ending* on the table, in the open , it helped me see why I still wanted it.

Best wishes to you both.

agirl

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 2:26:57 PM

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527,

You haven't provided the details, but from what you've posted, I'd point to this being the most obvious problem; ""I'm not entirely sure what's going on or why."You can address anything else easily, but you have to first identify the problem you want to correct.

Change of venue, change of perception, change of sensations; but you can't, as the 'Master', abdicate knowing what's going on with your partner. What is your personal confidence level regarding the things she is questioning; her good, your leadership, and the fundamental "whether she wants to be a slave or not"? I'm sure you two defined 'slavery' and have amplified and enhanced that definition over time. If you are as confident now as when you started, when did the disconnect start with her? Disclosure and openness are critical for any relationship. Was there a tipping point to bring this to a head, or was she/you uncomfortable, until now, to address it?

You also have to look at yourself with a critical eye. Were you a Master, or permitted to be one under certain conditions and terms? Are you serving or being served? Sometimes that line is blurred, but usually its pointed to sexual or physical sensations. A person who likes flogging can be seen serving someone who likes being flogged; compatible complimentary desires may appear serving. That's not my point. I also take from you post that isn't where you have concern. You relationship seems to be at a crossroads concerning the emotional and mental aspects of your dynamic.

One basic piece of advice I give is that 24/7 M/s isn't ideal for most people. It's not the perfect example that every couple should follow who have interest in all the various aspects of WIITWD. I like to say if either partner represents they have to 'work at it'; you shouldn't do it. You need a vacation from work. Maybe that's what you and Carol are experiencing.

Whatever you do - do together. Talk, cry, get naked and hug. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Good luck my friend! If you can think of anything either I or beth offer as assistance - don't hesitate to ask.

I truly hate responding to threads in cases like this where I've met the people/person involved. I've tried my best not to say something I wouldn't say regardless of that circumstance, at the same time, I hope I haven't alienated someone by doing so.

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 2:27:47 PM

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Yeah, but thats what girls do, men have no such need to contemplate their being in the larger world, (other than comedians) being shallower creatures in that respect.

lead: she will either say command me, or I'm going, you made your decision, and now she has to cook it up and decide to serve it or throw it.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to agirl)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 2:36:26 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, but thats what girls do, men have no such need to contemplate their being in the larger world, (other than comedians) being shallower creatures in that respect.

lead: she will either say command me, or I'm going, you made your decision, and now she has to cook it up and decide to serve it or throw it.

Ron

True enough Ron, in my experience. And frankly, I would hate it if he wobbled in this respect. He continued in the way he always has and I was left to orbit for a few.

agirl

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 3:05:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
And if she decides no........which is more important, a relationship, or a M/s relationship?

*chuckles* Not even a close contest. I've said it before and now in the moment, I stand by it. I would much prefer virtually ANY relationship with Carol over no realtionship with her. It is her I love, not the wife, sub, slave, [insert whatever else here].

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 3:13:04 PM

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*smiles* All good advice Merc. And in truth, I am SOOO with you on the lack of knowledge thing. I actually posted this post hot off the presses. The reason Id on't know what's going isn't that i don't care... it's that neither of us knows. I've sent Carol off for a day's errands by herself. She should be getting home any second. You cannot imagine how curious I am to find out what she's thought in that time.

Ron said: Keep on keeping on, until it shakes out, be there to listen, not convince for the time being.
Oh yeah... words to live by. I think I'll just tattoo that on my eyelids for the next few days :)

agirl (and aileen)l said: True enough Ron, in my experience. And frankly, I would hate it if he wobbled in this respect. He continued in the way he always has and I was left to orbit for a few.
Yup.. I'm pretty aware of that other viewpoint. But this is one of those hard limits for me. Knowing how easy it would be for me to influence her thinking and feeling as I do about consent, I'm afraid she'll have to sort it out on her own. I need to have real consent here. The long and short of it is that I wont' take that which isn't mine. And that's what she's deciding as we speak... maybe... *laughs* Honestly, I'm dying to find out what it is that's thinking.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 3:32:31 PM

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If I were in Carol's position, I would want to know that Sir still loves me and wants to continue leading me, but at the same time would allow me the time to work through the "stuff" going on in my own head. But I have to admit, at times it's hard for met to understand how men's minds work. I guess what I can say is Good Luck and I hope the best for the both of you. ~hugs~

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Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 3:37:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957
But I have to admit, at times it's hard for met to understand how men's minds work.

They don't. We don't let that shit slosh around in our heads.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 3:39:30 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
And if she decides no........which is more important, a relationship, or a M/s relationship?

*chuckles* Not even a close contest. I've said it before and now in the moment, I stand by it. I would much prefer virtually ANY relationship with Carol over no realtionship with her. It is her I love, not the wife, sub, slave, [insert whatever else here].

Well said, and almost certainly, no matter how things unfold, you'll be fine. For me, love supercedes pretty much all else. Hang in there.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 3:41:19 PM

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In situations like this, this is where i would need his mastery the most. But then again, i am mastery-oriented not choice oriented so to speak. I couldn't take a guy stopping what i rely on to feel secure in such a time. I would need HIS determination, his knowledge of me at work. To me, if a structure begins to crumble and the reinforcement of same stands there shrugging saying well i dunno while waiting for ME to make a decision lol i would freak. There is a reason she sees you as a Master Jeff, if during this time of rockiness and unstability, she needs you to be stable and sure of YOURSELF with her, i would imagine.

These are the times when the knowledge of you, her, and what you want sets the glue in the relationship. If you are not sure what you want and are willing to let her lead the relationship, you have to ask yourself, were you ever leading to begin with? If you want to be her Master, if you have chosen to be her Master ... then BE her master. You can't expect her to maintain slave when you as a Master are shrugging going i dunno you chose. Be careful she doesn't come to resent you because you say you are Master and yet in a time such as this you drop it because of your own insecurity. Be sure she isn't depending on you to maintain what she has had all this time.

You can allow her to work though this and work with her without giving up what she has come to see you to be -- her Master. It seems you are giving up and in instead of maintaining the status quo and working through the issues, it makes you seem insecure about who YOU are and that is what a Master is -- not what you are to her, but what you are period.

Just my thoughts. Good luck.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 10/6/2009 3:43:17 PM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 3:41:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

But I have to admit, at times it's hard for met to understand how men's minds work.

A conundrum that plagues both genders, sweet; the female mind seems equally mysterious to us, sometimes.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

RE: To take or not? - 10/6/2009 3:46:12 PM

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If it were me I would want him to continue to be who he is..not my Master, not a dom or whatever you wanna call it..but just him and his personality.

I would want him to give me time to think it through but also to not ignore me. I want him to still love and care for me as a couple does for each other with or without the bdsm. I want to know he's still there and still wanting to be with me but that he also understands I need time to think on my own without his pressure or pull on me. It would have to be my decision in the end whether I would want to continue or not.

Don't ignore her. Don't pretend that nothing is wrong. Don't not talk about the issue but don't hound her either.

Just make sure she knows you still love and care for her just as you always did before.

(in reply to mnottertail)

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