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RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/14/2009 3:26:09 PM   
bravemax


Posts: 23
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Echoing my thoughts in IrishMist's post, concerning abuse:

In the Western world, no one is forced to endure physical abuse- no one in a bad relationship is deserving of pity. Whether a woman endures repeated beatings because of some erotic desire, or love, or just some sense of worthlessness, pitying her and seeing her as incapable of solvng her problems is not an act of kindness. So in the end, it doesn't really matter to me why she stays, if she chooses to stay, she has made a choice.

We all generally end up with the partner we deserve to have.



Actually I strongly disagree. The personalities who inflict abuse on others are very skilled at culitivating victims. Only people who are effectively paranoid can keep up to speed with someone who is a sociopathic personality - skilled at lying, and constantly undermining by second nature. Some people in our society are generally trusting and forgiving - those traits are actually not weaknesses but crucial for society to function. In a lot of other ways they benifit us. Ever had a car break down on a highway?

In abuse situations the abuse begins subtly by distancing people from potential allies, disabling them finacially and very subtly attacking confidence. The real hate comes out of the blue one day and is quickly apologised for with several excuses. If that gets forgiven then the waters are considered tested and the cycle of escalating fear-causing actions begins anew. People who suffer abuse are not at all likely to be "dumb" or "weak-willed". Sometimes infact they are very intelligent and hampered from asking for help by their pride. (Perhaps how you might be caught Animus Rex)

I do agree that pity is demeaning - as demeaning as the attitude that victims of abuse deserve what they get. It is possible to offer outside assistance without condesencion after all - on the basis that I too may end up in the same place and appreciate some assistance then.

(Btw re: OrionTheWolfs lady friend --- Phwoar! Very beuatiful)


(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/15/2009 6:37:10 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks for getting back on topic Bravemax.

The line between a healthy consensual BDSM relationship and abuse is not at all a fine one, but it's a very difficult one to describe - if it feels "wrong" is about as close as you can come, otherwise, one has to fall back on some definition of harm, as in danger to oneself or others that involves non-cosmetic physical harm - the whole question of what constitutes mental abuse is even murkier, in some sense it is really only the passive actor that can make that call.

Re: consent; the case of Glenn Marcus is a good example: as near as I can figure, what I said in the other thread holds true: you cannot legally waive your right to say no; consent, explicit or implicit only holds until you explicitly object.

In short, don't get into an NSW relationship if you don't know what that means, and know that if you're the Dom in such a relationship, it doesn't provide immunity from prosecution.

< Message edited by xssve -- 10/15/2009 6:51:28 AM >

(in reply to bravemax)
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RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/16/2009 6:39:24 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

In short, don't get into an NSW relationship if you don't know what that means, and know that if you're the Dom in such a relationship, it doesn't provide immunity from prosecution.


Hey now, my fiance and I are in New South Wales and our relationship is doing quite well.

I have no idea what else that acronym could stand for, and neither did Google

(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 263
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/16/2009 7:06:11 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		I'm guessing "no safeword", but who knows? 

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In the forest of the night
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(in reply to Elisabella)
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RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/16/2009 7:24:13 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		~fast and general reply to the OP ~ ( ignoring everything else in between for a change )

Where do I, personally, draw the line?

I don't. If I am in a relationship, then it's not my place to 'draw the line'. It's his. I can cry, I can scream, I can beg, I can threaten...it's not my place to say no.

But that's just me. I like the extremes, I get off on it. The knowledge that the possiblity of death could be just around the corner is something that is highly erotic and arousing for me. And yes, it's something that I push the boundary for.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/16/2009 7:47:00 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I'm guessing "no safeword", but who knows? 


Oooh.

Smart.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 266
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/16/2009 8:13:21 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Bravemax, I agree! AnimusRex, it comes across as uncaring, and that people who are abused deserve it. Restraining orders are extremely ineffective, and a lot of abused women *do* get killed or have the violence escalated if they leave, or attempt to leave. They aren't eligible for the Witness Protection Program, and moving to a new town, a new house, a new job, etc. is very difficult. Just taking the Ums without a court decision in their favour can be prosecuted as kidnapping, if they don't have legal proof. Yes, things are getting better, with shelters and the legal system, but it's far from solved.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/16/2009 5:03:40 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

In short, don't get into an NSW relationship if you don't know what that means, and know that if you're the Dom in such a relationship, it doesn't provide immunity from prosecution.


Hey now, my fiance and I are in New South Wales and our relationship is doing quite well.

I have no idea what else that acronym could stand for, and neither did Google


Maybe there is a quota for D/s relationships in NSW?


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 268
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/16/2009 7:06:48 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

In short, don't get into an NSW relationship if you don't know what that means, and know that if you're the Dom in such a relationship, it doesn't provide immunity from prosecution.


Hey now, my fiance and I are in New South Wales and our relationship is doing quite well.

I have no idea what else that acronym could stand for, and neither did Google


Maybe there is a quota for D/s relationships in NSW?



LOL I'm glad I made it in time then!

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/16/2009 7:49:06 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I'm guessing "no safeword", but who knows? 


Oooh.

Smart.


Thank you, but that's assuming that I'm right. It could just as easily mean Never Smokes Weed. Or Narwhals Sipping Whiskey, for that matter. I've noticed a lot of prejudice in the community toward relationships in which both narwhals drink regularly.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 270
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/16/2009 7:51:21 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

In short, don't get into an NSW relationship if you don't know what that means, and know that if you're the Dom in such a relationship, it doesn't provide immunity from prosecution.


Hey now, my fiance and I are in New South Wales and our relationship is doing quite well.

I have no idea what else that acronym could stand for, and neither did Google


Maybe there is a quota for D/s relationships in NSW?



LOL I'm glad I made it in time then!


probably just in time too. I'm surprised that Master Six didn't realise it though...then again MEN they never read the fine print


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 271
RE: Extreme BDSM & Ethics - 10/16/2009 9:02:47 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		NSW; New South Wales of which the capitol is Sydney. One could say that it is a natural mistake for any New South Welshman to think that any reference to NSW refers to their state. I know a few folk there who believe that it is God's own piece of the world and nothing compares. To some everything outside NSW has no value which is why it is so jolly good when my adoptive state of Queensland beats the crap out of NSW in the State of Origin Rugby League and rubs in their faces that the Australian Back Line are almost the entire Brisbane Broncos back line. Still Sydney is a good place top shop and the harbour is jolly awesome. I tend to have much more love for the out back areas though and the folks there. 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 272
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