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RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:12:16 PM

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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I'd qualify that last line with 'above & beyond the general love of trendiness that humans tend to seek after' . . .. .

& to add to my bit about charisma, above, I tend to think that some charisma can be 'manufactured'. By individuals, by groups & corporate entities & so on & so forth . . . . .

One can work at becoming perceived as 'more charming', for instance ... . .

& I'll qualify charisma as entailing more than just 'charm' & / or a much broader use of 'attractiveness' than the obvious physical attractiveness . . . . . In that sense that the thoughts of another can be attractive is probably more useful . . . . .

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:22:46 PM

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It also can be seen as part whimsical, part being a sense of fun and partly because NZ has seemed to create a following of people who are accumulating these NZ points. Granted there could be a power in this yet I see it as a fleeting power which could at some point fade away . From what I see it's a form of charisma moreso then out and out adulation of the OP.

From what I have observed to how the OP interacts in debates and many heated debates to which I had a couple with him, ut is in a way which has little confrontational value other than to throw out an alternate pov , done in a way which has no anger nor animosity behind it. For that alone a measure of respect for the person should be given.

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RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:29:32 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

So would I! I see power in this, primarily, because I see other people behave as if they see power in this. And I wonder how many of them behave as if they see power in it, because they see other people that they want to impress behaving as if they see power in it. But there's definitely a self-reinforcing resonance (or there was, before I opened my mouth - I might have popped the soap-bubble.)

Ah. Yeah. I see your point now. Shit, like Schroedinger and his cat, we've probably defined the outcome of the process simply by observing and commenting on it. Damn me and my big mouth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
Well, to be honest, the "point system" - and certainly the "rewards", which are clearly tongue-in-cheek - aren't powerful. But look at how many people have started putting their "NZ points" in their .sig line over the past few weeks. That's symptomatic of something interesting.

Yeah, that's one of the things that I saw as lighthearted fluff. I figured that for the most part, people were just joining in on the fun. I don't get it myself, so I didn't bother posting my own point total. It's all kind of lost on me.

But I agree, it is becoming an interesting phenomenon to watch, in an unexpected fashion. Or it was until I walked into the room and threw a bucket of cold water on it!

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RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:33:27 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

It also can be seen as part whimsical, part being a sense of fun and partly because NZ has seemed to create a following of people who are accumulating these NZ points. Granted there could be a power in this yet I see it as a fleeting power which could at some point fade away .

Ah, yes, fame is fleeting. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. It's probably only a matter of time before someone digs up some information on the internet that outs NZ as some sort of sexual deviant or something of that nature, and everyone who admires him now will shun him and claim they always knew there was something about that boy that just weren't right.

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(in reply to Wolf2Bear)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:34:52 PM

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Hmmmmm . . . . .

I tend to think all human power is fleeting . . .. . & more than a little illusory . . .. .

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:34:54 PM

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Well, see, this is part of my "role" in life - I enforce self-observation of social processes that normally proceed instinctively.

Yes, I have scars to show for it.

And I'd hardly call NZ "non-confrontational" ;) At least, if NZ is non-confrontational, then in my view, so am I. ;)

And finally: really, all respect and comradere is "tongue-in-cheek" until a crisis calls on it. In our culture, we try very hard to act like our social bonds aren't that big a deal (lest someone try to manipulate them), until someone pulls the strings tight.

I'm just watching the scaffolding of the web go up, and saying "huh..."

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:36:09 PM

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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While NZ doesn't avoid confrontation he doesn't seem to seek out antagonism, how's that for a distinction?

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:37:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I didn't bother posting my own point total.

Something I've remedied after doing a more specific search.

My input into the curiosity side-topic to be forthcoming.

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RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:46:58 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I didn't bother posting my own point total.

Something I've remedied after doing a more specific search.

My input into the curiosity side-topic to be forthcoming.

Speaking for myself, please don't feel compelled to let yourself get dragged into it on my account. I can't speak for Ialdaboth of course, but the last thing I'd want to do is derail a fun thread by turning it all serious and introspective and suchlike. I should have just kept quiet, really.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:51:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Speaking for myself, please don't feel compelled to let yourself get dragged into it on my account. I can't speak for Ialdaboth of course, but the last thing I'd want to do is derail a fun thread by turning it all serious and introspective and suchlike. I should have just kept quiet, really.

NEVER!! Introspection is good for the soul! The unexamined life is not worth living!

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:57:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

NZ seems to have a capacity for... well, for making things be about him, but in a positive way.

If I do have any such talent, it may be more accidental than intentional. You are likely to get two distinct parts of me after sufficient interacction: in public debate I do intend to be incisive and, to some, abrasive. Some people take that and paint it across the entire spectrum of my personality. Part of me is socially introverted, which is why the descriptions of most of the "prizes" contain some intentional comical self-deprecation. Socially, I'm quite passive, actually. (there is a third facet, but that would get into a long side-tangent).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

This is a skillset I've been attempting to master for nearly 20 years now, and I still don't seem to have it down. There's this process that leads to... I dunno what to call it. 'Respect' is too tame; 'adulation' is too archaic of a word... 'worship' is a bit over-the-top. But there's definitely a process, and a path, to crafting a cult of personality.

And it's not necessarily about viewpoints - leadership and I are the top two scorers (which will almost necessarily connote a degree of similarity in world-view, just based on how scores are presented), and yet Darcyandthedark are far closer to cementing the kind of "collarchat.com cred" that I'm talking about.

Actually, upon reading this I did a more intensive overview and my suspicion that they had more points than I had initially found was confirmed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

As tongue-in-cheek as this thread is, there's power here in what NZ has done. And the man's a self-avowed, snarking nihilist. I refuse to accept that this all comes down to the power of a hot profile pic, NZ's luxurious flowing locks notwithstanding. There's something deeper at work.

So what gives?

A whimsical game that I unintentionally got enough online friends to start having fun with that turned into a direction to focus my OCD-ish head and silly mood. Besides, you were the one who tallied your points on a thread in order to ask when and how you could redeem them.

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I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 9:58:38 PM

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quote:

?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I didn't bother posting my own point total.

Something I've remedied after doing a more specific search.

My input into the curiosity side-topic to be forthcoming.

Speaking for myself, please don't feel compelled to let yourself get dragged into it on my account. I can't speak for Ialdaboth of course, but the last thing I'd want to do is derail a fun thread by turning it all serious and introspective and suchlike. I should have just kept quiet, really.

How am I going to be able to keep the silliness of this entire thing intact without taking the construct of it seriously?

*Going back now to reply to more comments in order*

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"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 10:02:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
A whimsical game that I unintentionally got enough online friends to start having fun with that turned into a direction to focus my OCD-ish head and silly mood. Besides, you were the one who tallied your points on a thread in order to ask when and how you could redeem them.

I shall now attack your bold accusation with metaphor!

If I watch as the locals build flying buttresses, tall stained-glass windows, a grand steeple, and finally begin erecting a cross on the top of it, how is the question "so when will this church be open for worship?" out of line?

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 10:04:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

I've been trying to 'learn' the fine art of self-promotion for some time . . ... . But I don't know that I have anything very impressive to share . . . . .

Please, please, please don't presume there's any merit to learning anything from me in this department!

I don't market myself at all. the only reason, for instance, I even got a magazine cover image for a small UK fashion mag was because a model friend knew the clothing designer and asked me to shoot it for her. I've had friends demand to pay me to shoot their wedding when I didn't want their money (but ended up being damn glad and lucky the results were worth what they paid).

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

I know that as a writer I've grappled with the topic of being 'authoritative' & that to some extent these are qualities one just grabs hold of & does. I just start being an authority on something (doing my research, etc) & sooner or later someone will treat me as authoritative on that subject, externally validating something that was already clear to me from the inside . . . . .

I'm gonna (a) mull this some more & (b) see what else gets stirred up . . .. .

Frankly, the authoritative aspect come, I think, just from the fact that I've spent so much introspective time studying the human animal and studying myself and thinking about such things (which is a reason I have actually little, if any, real-world credentials) that I've mulled over and analyzed the nuances of the topics I usually discuss enough to have encountered most avenues to where I speak from having an awareness of the shortest paths and shortcuts.

And it's been years since I was genuinely deeply devoted even to the research and assimilating part of it.

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"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to DemonKia)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 10:09:30 PM

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Panda, "serious and introspective", I suspect, are excellent descriptors when aplied to the Master of this thread, NZ, lol . . . . So, I doubt it'll be a problem . . . . .

There's a whiff of 'weird energy management magic' in this stuff, too . . . . Akin to what goes on with both 'cool' & 'style' . . . . . That is, that one of the components to attaining either is to eschew it, to some degree.

Style, for instance, is partly achieved by letting go of some bigger definition of 'style' & pursuing that which one likes, desires, is attracted to, & etc . . . . . & in the process there is some attractant voodoo that goes on & others will start to perceive a panache . . . . .

It's not so much that the process of observing will *poof* the magic away, a la that Schroedinger feline, it's more that these qualities we discuss are more like 'quarks' & 'dark matter'. We can infer them theoretically by the impacts we can see on other matter, but observing them directly is a tricky, sticky wicket . . . . .

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 10:15:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

So would I! I see power in this, primarily, because I see other people behave as if they see power in this. And I wonder how many of them behave as if they see power in it, because they see other people that they want to impress behaving as if they see power in it. But there's definitely a self-reinforcing resonance (or there was, before I opened my mouth - I might have popped the soap-bubble.)

It's the same as any community. I haven't been on here that long (just over a year) but as far as message board contributions (if only just volume) I've (what the hell is that figure of speech that describes having doner your 'time' to gain a certain level of recompense?)...to where I've become a fixture of the fora and, fortunately, have made some good friends along the way (some who voluntarily started adding my points to their siglines...and then it just became fun).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

Well, to be honest, the "point system" - and certainly the "rewards", which are clearly tongue-in-cheek - aren't powerful. But look at how many people have started putting their "NZ points" in their .sig line over the past few weeks. That's symptomatic of something interesting.

People like games. People like irreverent silliness. And, I'd like to think the way I prsent it shows that I'm taking it all in good fun and not some genuine self-fluffing vanity (although you could keeping the 'Sex God du Jour' title when most people will not know the background story to that could be an indication of trying to take something silly and run with it...and if people take a portion of it semi-seriously [in a good way] along the way, then all the better...but it's not an intentional thing).

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 10:17:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

One can work at becoming perceived as 'more charming', for instance ... . .

Oddly, the very way you phrased this would yield you some wildly different answers depensing on who would answer to it, concerning me.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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(in reply to DemonKia)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 10:20:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear
From what I have observed to how the OP interacts in debates and many heated debates to which I had a couple with him, ut is in a way which has little confrontational value other than to throw out an alternate pov , done in a way which has no anger nor animosity behind it. For that alone a measure of respect for the person should be given.

From what I remember, our discussion always ended well no matter how they started.

Other people will have wildly different views of my debate style, however.

For instance, I've had good friends of mine (not here, another message board) get fumed at me during a discussion about female genital mutilation when I paralleled it to circumcision and didn't back down from that position (it probably didn't help that one of the friends had a son who was circumcised...).

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
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(in reply to Wolf2Bear)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 10:21:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

But I agree, it is becoming an interesting phenomenon to watch, in an unexpected fashion. Or it was until I walked into the room and threw a bucket of cold water on it!

After going back and searching for your points, I have your tally at 90. At very least, consider that you've earned the right to toss a bucket of cold water.

I just may consider charging you for it, though.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: An Inquiry - 10/11/2009 10:26:49 PM

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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Well, jus' for the fyi's & clarity of it, I've been speaking primarily in big generalities, in my contributions to this inquiry . . . . ..

Also, it was Leadership, Calla, & Davan that started the 'points in sig line' bandwagon, I'm pretty sure .. ... Davan might have been first, but it was several months back, I'm also pretty sure . . . . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

One can work at becoming perceived as 'more charming', for instance ... . .

Oddly, the very way you phrased this would yield you some wildly different answers depensing on who would answer to it, concerning me.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

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