RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (Full Version)

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RUaPhdStudent -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 7:01:30 AM)

re: kiswub12
In stating that she did have a choice, you've ignored the strong element of love in our relationship. You've also ignored her financial dependence on me. These two facts complicate things to the point that she did not have a choice (to paraphrase her).

She's not home right now so I can't discuss the possibility of my manipulating her with promise of a future wedding. We didn't discuss this the other day; we've only discussed our past elopement in this context. From my point of view, I am not (manipulating her via promise of a future wedding). It's never once come up between us, except in the couple of weeks we were planning our elopement. Why did I say "she very much hopes?" Because any talk of big weddings (hers or otherwise) makes her light up in a semi-awesome, semi-comical 1950s housewife fashion. She will admit to this. I could never hope to match that level of enthusiasm.



for new people in this thread:
"Again, thanks for the support. Further comments and input aren't needed (but are still welcome) due to in-progress solutions."



happylittlepet -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 7:07:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RUaPhdStudent

re: kiswub12
In stating that she did have a choice, you've ignored the strong element of love in our relationship. You've also ignored her financial dependence on me. These two facts complicate things to the point that she did not have a choice (to paraphrase her).

She's not home right now so I can't discuss the possibility of my manipulating her with promise of a future wedding. We didn't discuss this the other day; we've only discussed our past elopement in this context. From my point of view, I am not (manipulating her via promise of a future wedding). It's never once come up between us, except in the couple of weeks we were planning our elopement. Why did I say "she very much hopes?" Because any talk of big weddings (hers or otherwise) makes her light up in a semi-awesome, semi-comical 1950s housewife fashion. She will admit to this. I could never hope to match that level of enthusiasm.

You just confirmed Kiwi's point.

for new people in this thread:
"Again, thanks for the support. Further comments and input aren't needed (but are still welcome) due to in-progress solutions."


It's uncomfortable for you to read comments?



happylittlepet -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 7:09:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RUaPhdStudent

Ire: manipulation: It has happened both ways (me manipulating her AND the opposite), never intentionally. Happylilpet and Fnyunj's opinions represent the two possible extremes of the situation; we believe the true situation lies somewhere in the middle. I (the guy) have done more manipulation of her than she has of me. This is something we hope to work out with the aforementioned psychiatric group.


I will refrain from commenting on the intentionality. The tangible outcome though was obvious; let's call it financial imbalance.
 
I do not present an extreme. I don't think you understand what I am saying. Two wrongs do not make one right. You can only change your behavior, not hers.



RUaPhdStudent -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 7:13:56 AM)

If it were uncomfortable for me to read comments I would simply refrain from doing so.

I've been putting that disclaimer on because the issue is soon to be in the hands of real mental health professionals; people reading this thread for the first time should be aware of that before (possibly) wasting their time with input.



kiwisub12 -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 7:14:10 AM)

From my vastly superior advantage point comprised of years lived ([:D]), i have to say that love isn't an excuse for staying in a relationship. Love is nice, but you can love and leave a relationship if the relationship isn't healthy for you. Been there, done that. So yes, she does have a choice wheither or not to stay with you. Financially it may be easier, but emotionally, there can come a point that love isn't enough of a reason to stay, when all the other emotions are negative. I'm thinking your experience with love has all been positive up to this point , so you think love equals relationship, but it isn't necessarily so.

And if financially it is easier, if she really wanted out of your relationship she could leave school, and get a job as a police dispatcher, or a garbage man - both jobs that pay enough to afford an apartment and food. There are always choices. And mine would be staying with you until i get out of school and THEN leaving, when it is easier to get a job - if the relationship was toxic enough to me. So please don't get complacent about her lack of choices. She has them, she just doesn't like them.

and i am glad the whole wedding thing was a red herring. [:D] Weddings are fun.



RUaPhdStudent -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 7:21:54 AM)

re: happylilpet: "financial imbalance"
Would you have preferred I allowed her to sink further into debt rather than marry her or cover some of her expenses?
Or would you have preferred I cover _all_ her expenses, despite her high level of education and strong desire to hold a career while young?



happylittlepet -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 8:14:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RUaPhdStudent

re: happylilpet: "financial imbalance"
Would you have preferred I allowed her to sink further into debt rather than marry her or cover some of her expenses?
Or would you have preferred I cover _all_ her expenses, despite her high level of education and strong desire to hold a career while young?



There was an exchange: less debt for marriage. That wouldn't be my motivator to get married.

Your financial position is apparently so much better than hers that you wanted a prenup, but you were not willing to help her without her getting tied to you by the legal bond of marriage? It's not so much you helping her, as that it's the marriage certificate, yet she is not free anymore, and on top of that she has to be thankful?

To me it seems she is more and more disadvantaged: she has less money, she gets conditional love, she becomes more dependent, she got married but is the 'weaker' party, and on top of that she is severely depressed and then that is all held against her. Edit: oh, and I forgot to mention that you were looking here for another partner.

Is it that you didn't allow her to sink or is it that she wanted to get married to you to reduce her debt or is it that she is hoping for a 50's household or is it she that married you because you are a great guy?

I would say: set her free, in that she should not feel any pressure from you to make this relationship work because of all the 'good' you do to her. Make your love unconditional. I don't think you have a realistic idea of what you have done. She might not either, but I see you as the one who has the power. And just as she needs professional help, I am not sure you see the danger in your way of thinking/behavior. And that's worrisome, at least to me.




LordSpooner -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 9:13:30 AM)

First off -- I commend you both for seeking to start a line of communication through this incredibly important time in both of your lives.  I'm glad to see that you're recognizing some of the things that has been illuminated in our various posts and I'm a very strong proponent that a good dominant will aptly accept their role and mistakes without deflection or projecting them on their submissives or slaves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RUaPhdStudent

re: manipulation: It has happened both ways (me manipulating her AND the opposite), never intentionally. Happylilpet and Fnyunj's opinions represent the two possible extremes of the situation; we believe the true situation lies somewhere in the middle. I (the guy) have done more manipulation of her than she has of me. This is something we hope to work out with the aforementioned psychiatric group.


I'm glad you're taking some responsibility and starting to make some personal strides to understand the motivation behind the inner workings of your dynamic.  There are a number of important key junctures in your upcoming processes -- but the most important one is compatibility.  While none of us have any idea how you really are towards one another, we're having to read into your words a bit.  There does appear to be a rather substantial compatibility problem between you both where she's miserable - and you're not getting the kink you want from your situation.  You attempted to mix oil and water, but it didn't go very well -- nor do I think Joanne is very happy with the kinkier side of things.

My strongest piece of advice that I can offer is that some things simply can't be forced.  They have to happen on their own -- and as much as you both may care deeply for one another ... sometimes that's not enough in the final assessment.  You did a decent thing - by offering to help her at a time of need .... but in so doing  you may have substantially complicated your relationship to her in ways that are no longer salvageable.

My ultimate hope is that she can find the right path for herself -- and that you can respect that path so that you can make the better choices for your relationship -- which may include ending things so that she can find what makes her happy -- and that you can as well.

Best of luck to the both of you,
-Michael



RUaPhdStudent -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 9:19:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: happylittlepet

There was an exchange: less debt for marriage. That wouldn't be my motivator to get married.

Your financial position is apparently so much better than hers that you wanted a prenup, but you were not willing to help her without her getting tied to you by the legal bond of marriage? It's not so much you helping her, as that it's the marriage certificate, yet she is not free anymore, and on top of that she has to be thankful?



I pay plenty for her, such as her car and car insurance. I'm not full of money and couldn't afford to take on her debts entirely. One of us needs to maintain a good financial history, hence the prenup.

quote:


To me it seems she is more and more disadvantaged: she has less money, she gets conditional love, she becomes more dependent, she got married but is the 'weaker' party, and on top of that she is severely depressed and then that is all held against her. Edit: oh, and I forgot to mention that you were looking here for another partner.


I came here looking for a partner at her disgruntled pushing.
Her: "Why don't you find someone else to have sex with."
Me: "Ok"
It wasn't a good situation nor was it a good idea.

She was the "weaker" party financially before marriage.

She gets conditional love? That's untrue. She gets love with occasionaly frustration and anger thrown in; I get exactly the same. Every loving relationship is like that.
quote:



Is it that
- you didn't allow her to sink or
- is it that she wanted to get married to you to reduce her debt or
- is it that she is hoping for a 50's household or
- is it she that married you because you are a great guy?


It's a combination of all 4.
We both had incorrect expectations with regard to the third point, though.

quote:


I would say: set her free, in that she should not feel any pressure from you to make this relationship work because of all the 'good' you do to her. Make your love unconditional. I don't think you have a realistic idea of what you have done. She might not either, but I see you as the one who has the power. And just as she needs professional help, I am not sure you see the danger in your way of thinking/behavior. And that's worrisome, at least to me.


She wants the relationship to work just as badly as I do.





unrelated to happylilpet:
Institute for personal growth (I mentioned them earlier) is not in-network for our insurance.
They were up until 2 months ago :\ Back to the drawing board.





Mercnbeth -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 10:22:14 AM)

quote:

...She gets love with occasionaly frustration and anger thrown in; I get exactly the same. Every loving relationship is like that...


No, they aren't.
 
Every loving relationship is not a carbon copy of yours.



RUaPhdStudent -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 10:24:21 AM)

I never said "carbon copy"



Mercnbeth -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 10:25:54 AM)

You are right, you didn't...but you did say:

quote:

...Every loving relationship is like that...


and they aren't.



RUaPhdStudent -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 10:44:13 AM)

Props to you for doing something I would consider impossible, then.



CalifChick -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 11:11:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RUaPhdStudent

In stating that she did have a choice, you've ignored the strong element of love in our relationship. You've also ignored her financial dependence on me. These two facts complicate things to the point that she did not have a choice (to paraphrase her).


Perhaps with therapy she will start taking responsibility for her own choices.  She did have a choice; she took the one that made her life financially easier.  I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it just "is". 


Cali



Lucienne -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 5:23:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RUaPhdStudent

I pay plenty for her, such as her car and car insurance. I'm not full of money and couldn't afford to take on her debts entirely. One of us needs to maintain a good financial history, hence the prenup.



Yeah... I'm not buying this. You don't automatically assume responsibility for her pre-marital debts just because you get married.



LadyJulieAnn -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/13/2009 7:15:40 PM)

I have not heard of depression manifesting as seizues. Perhaps your wife has a more serious neurological disorder and needs further evaluation from a neurologist.



sweetobedience1 -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/21/2009 9:12:26 PM)

I got so tense reading this...so, so tense. YAY Elisabella for your posts! Your wife wants more than a paper wedding. She wants a 1950s household where the MAN is in charge and loves it that way. She's probably stressed out you aren't holding up the bargain! I'd be livid! In fact, I've been in this similar position. I wanted to absolutely strang-...well, no need for ugly words from me. But, I learned from a bitter bite. She probably wants to work because she's scared you'll never support the two of you. If she's having to literally whore herself out to her husband to pay her half of the rent (scoff!), it seems to me this is the case. You either want a 1950s housewife, a "modern woman," or a feminist. Pick one and go with it all the way for longer than a week. Please.





breatheasone -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/21/2009 9:19:26 PM)

quote:

Good relationships make great sex, not the other way round.


Thats the greatest thing i've read in a while!  Hats off to you Sir [:)]



DavanKael -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/21/2009 9:33:33 PM)

The seizures and difference in affect seem more like dissociation and perhapsdissociative identity disorder than just straght-up depression but that is only a guess based on very limited information.  I would look into someone who cializes in trauma/PTSD/DID/childhood sexual abuse. 
  Davan



sweetsmileysub -> RE: The 1950s housewife I married is no longer interested in kink (long post) (10/21/2009 9:49:41 PM)

OMG



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