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lovingpet -> RE: Zero Tolerance for 6 year old (10/14/2009 12:12:17 PM)
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ORIGINAL: barelynangel
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First of all, I just simply function in a different paradigm altogether and all the competitiveness of schools is not a concern for me and mine. I don't measure their success as a human by the schools they attend, their profession, or their paycheck. I measure it by how well they function as human beings and being good at that. My children know what I expect and I really don't hold to the standards that most consider important and never will.
chuckles, you know reading this its almost as if you are trying to say that isn't what ALL parents do, wow even the ones who do decide to use any and all means to give the child as much of what they can to help them SUCCEED in life, including any and all careers they choose, all education available to them, that the educational system as a whole provides in our country. Just because a parent decides to give a child every possible option THEY the parent considers within their means to give, which could be the best schools, the best coaches, private schools or hell special schools to help a child with issues etc or such doesn't mean they " measure their success as a human by the schools they attend, their profession, or their paycheck." You are kidding here right? I mean sorry but you almost sound sanctimonious in your initial paragraph. (I don't know if you intend to our not lol i would say not but that is how it sounds) It honestly flabbergasts me when people assume people who try and give the best of what they can manage for their kids are all about money, or paycheck or their profession. Did it ever occur to you the opportunities some of these places open for kids and the networking and contacts available in ALL fields and concepts of life? Yes some public systems are pretty good, but from what it seems nowadays, many are not, many have exactly what we are speaking of here -- a focus that is not about the best possible advantages to learning. If the kids were to go on and work in the peace core, get paid almost nothing and dug ditches in their life and with the OPPORTUNITIES i opened for them due to my choices for their education until they could have some say in it, i could care less. If they decided they wanted to attend a top notch college to seek a profession of their choosing that this college has the ability to help them in, damn straight i will find out what it will take that I CAN PROVIDE to give the kids THAT opportunity. However, i don't consider it a BAD thing for a parent to use every means they have to HELP their child succeed in whatever they may wish to do as adults, and well a GREAT education many times HELPS.
It is not sanctimonious. It is just my position on various aspects of society. My pursestrings, apronstrings, g strings, and whatever strings were not put on this earth to help little junior get some edge of over the competition. He will earn what he does on his own merits and nothing more. I do provide what is needed, but I believe a cut throat preschool atmosphere to be equally as damaging as being babysat in front of a TV from birth. I believe in families raising kids, so preschool competition is of no consequence to me. My grandmother provided loving care when I needed to be away and still does, along with other family and a few close friends. It is not that I want him to feel somehow a cut above because our value system is somehow superior or not. My goal is for him to know with absolutely no uncertainty that he earned exactly the life he has lock, stock, and barrel. He must own up to where he fell short along the way, but he also gets to bask in those areas of great accomplishment. I just do things differently, I never said one way was particularly better than another. I do have a major problem with children getting bumps up in life due to their family's influence, money, etc. It teaches them a gross sense of self entitlement and allows them to wallow in immaturity indefinitely. Of course, this is another topic altogether.
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Well i guess since his permanent record isn't an issue for you in his educational studies -- nevermind at 13 he may say hey mom i want to go to this really hard to get into school because it has an area of study i am interested in or academics i want to pursue, and suddenly his record DOES matter. His education isn't FOR you, its for HIM. But that's my opinion, i can't say what the kids will do with the education and schooling i provide, but if i am able to in my opinon give them as MUCH opportunity as possible with regards to education standards, social standards, classroom standards, etc etc etc, i am going to do it, i don't think measuring their success as a human by the schools they attend, their profession, or their paycheck because i provide the best i can provide. Sure some people can't, it doesn't mean those who can are doing anything but providing their child with the BEST of opportunities, ya know maybe like going to a school where zero tolerance doesn't have to factor in?
There are very few. Here's the thing. His education IS for him. He gets to own that and is responsible for not ruining what is provided though foolish behavior. Kids weren't always so juvenile at these younger ages. A lack of both short and long term consequences has made it so along with them never feeling invested in their own future and environment. I provided him the means to go to school and even help with weak areas and enrichment for strong areas. If he blows that, then he has shown disrespect for what I have already provided. Why would I go even further? I impress upon mine that they can grow to be absolutely anything, but that the choice is in their hands. I explain to them the facts of how what they do has consequences and not all of them are fair, right, or even of any real meaning. They have learned this time and again before formal education ever begins. Those who are purchasing or fixing their child's future is doing them a diservice in my opinion, hands down. I don't believe in "the best". I believe in what is appropriate and attainable.
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Then just out of curiosity, you are all sanctimonious (or at least that's how it sounds to me -- if its not intended that way, i apologize) on how YOU don't take consequences for others and kids must take consequences even if they don't know and its not fair, so why fight zero tolerance, by the very nature of what you have said, hey kid life's not fair, why give some kids a review due to circumstance and others not. According to what you have said, it should be whether you get it or not, understand it or not, you HAVE to face the consequences, anything less is you trying to get them NOT to have to face the consequences of their wrong actions -- by the RULES set in place. Just because there is a review doesn't mean they will reverse and the consequences will still apply.
It is simple. Life doesn't have to remain the way it is today. Tomorrow can be better. The problem is, if no one is going to demand changes, then it stays the same and more people are put through similar rigors. This would be the same as saying that, since the bridge broke in half we may as well just leave it that way and take another route because the bridge is already broken. It can't be fixed so that others may benefit even if I have been inconvenienced in the past? That seems a bit silly to me.
I said the child needs consequences, but I also stated that they needed APPROPRIATE consequences and I would do everything in my power to make it happen, not because they don't have to play by "the rules", but because the rule is wrong and a violation of their basic rights. No, a review wouldn't necessarily go my way. That isn't the point. The point is to draw attention to the problem and have more voices added to the outcry. As with this boy, the powers that be eventually either have to listen or lose all credibility. If it all did not get sorted satisfactorily, then I have to decide if continued fighting, moving, or complying is the best option. I am going to do what will both instruct my child and be healthy for him. You can only play by wrong rules to the point where they are in direct conflict with what is right. Then, as far as I'm concerned and as I have taught my children, the rules be damned. Live to your own higher standard. I believe in being a good person and good citizen. Sometimes that means compliance. Sometimes that means a little civil disobedience.
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So what is it -- you want them to face consequences even if they don't understand whether its fair or not, or you don't think they should so zero tolerance should have a review board based on circumstances?
angel
You've missed it sweetie. I don't believe in zero tolerance, its consequences, or anything else to do with it. I am not interested in trying to make do with a system and policies that do not work. I want common sense, compassion, and sanity again. I want people to quit being reactionary and accept the risks of simply living one's everyday life. I am not interested in finding a way to make this thing work. I want it gone and replaced with something better, though it will have its own problems. I can deal with those more easily than an absolutist, one size fits all approach to humans and human behavior. My child may be subject to such policies for the time being and it may even result in one of them becoming the center stage of a story such as this, but it doesn't mean that I have lay down and give up. I will do my best to uphold the consequences they determine, but only in such a way that it is least damaging to my child. I have no problem going my own way if necessary. I've done it before and will do it again, though it had nothing to do with zero tolerance policy. You honestly think that if we moved, changed schools, or the child was to be homeschooled, it would not be its own set of steep consequences? Just because I don't stand by the ruling of the school system doesn't mean my child will not be paying his dues.
lovingpet
PS: Like anyone else, these are only my opinions and not meant to be at all santimonious. They are just deeply held.
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