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Elisabella -> RE: Feminism (10/23/2009 7:16:45 PM)
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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Elisabella, first of all, you can keep your degrading "honey" snipes to yourself. I've not stooped to childish name calling like others I am simply making a point that you do not agree with.
I call my friends honey. And my mom. Usually in the sense of "oh my god did they just say that?" and then I proceed to point out why what they said is ridiculous. It's chiding, not degrading.
I suppose another way to say it would be "are you fucking serious? Do you really believe this?" but to me that would be degrading.
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Secondly, I read your reply to me as somewhat of a "I want to take what I like about feminism and use it, but the part that makes it harder for me personally, I want to disregard."
Well that's what I've been saying all along. The legal bits that say men and women have the same opportunities I'll keep, the social bits that say men and women should act the same I'll get rid of.
I see it as like, ok men and women have the same opportunities. How many women plumbers are there? Not a lot right? But there are some. So the legal bits are like, for the few women who do want to be plumbers, they're legally able. But for most women who don't, there shouldn't be a social expectation that says that the genders should be represented equally.
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Well too bad. You cannot have the right to things like maternity leave and give the father the same rights. Fair is fair. And descrimination is descrimination. Whether you like it or not.
Maternity leave is for the body to recuperate after childbirth or a c-section, as well as to allow the mother to breast-feed the newborn. I really don't see why fathers would need to do either.
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Yes, social expectations are evolving but neither you nor I can determine exactly how. It is unfortunate I know, I would like to be the QueenBitchoftheUniverse but I am quite aware that it's not likely to happen.
Well yeah, but not ruling the universe doesn't mean you can't be an activist.
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Just because a man is physcially larger in size does NOT make him a superiour human. In fact, within the laws of our society, the very biological facts that make them bigger and stronger, may indeed at times make them inferiour human beings. The prisons are full of men that were overly endowed with testosterone.
That's exactly what I've been saying all along. Like, to the tee.
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Forgive me if I cry foul on your expectation of women and babies. I am not sure what society you live in and what the expectations there are, but the society I live in find it completely acceptable for a woman to stay home and raise her children. It is very possible for her to return to work in whatever capacity she chooses, at any point. Of course there are financial sacrifices, so far no one is paying people to stay home and parent......unless you count the government welfare system.
Maybe it's just where I was raised then - there was a general expectation of staying home for a year or three and then going back to work. And that's only if children are involved, the society I grew up in (middle class) thought "housewife" was a dirty word.
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I personally do not see a "standard" especially the standard you seem so violently against. Perhaps where you live there are huge differences in the way women must fit into tidy little boxes.
Probably.
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The day changing a tire or assembling a bookcase is so difficult I need a person of another gender to do it........I will be too old and decrepit to wipe my own ass. Either gender will be able to do it for me and I probably shouldn't be driving anyway.
Its not about whether it's too difficult to do, it's the gesture. And I know this is going to sound so cliche but there is a serious risk of breaking a nail.
It's fine if you want to do it yourself, I just don't see why there should be the expectation that you can. Kinda like with men and laundry. It's not terribly hard to put laundry in and wash it and dry it and hang it up or fold it. But it's not a guy thing to do.
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However, where I live, being a woman means having choices. In fact, I see women as having more choices than men.
True. I'd say not all of them are good choices though - the number of unwed mothers in high school - but that's a whole new topic.
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So yes Elisabella, you really can dramatize the downfall of family and society as we know it and blame feminism but, based upon the examples I see DAILY, I will say bullshit.
I don't just blame feminism, I blame a large bit of it on the sexual revolution of the 60s and the feminization of men in the 90's...as well as untempered capitalism and technological progress without introspection and social growth...but yeah the "women can do every single thing in the world as well as a man can and that's why we have to lower the requirements for firefighters so women can pass the test and prove they're just as good" sort of thinking is part of the error.
I mean, look at what you've been posting. You posted a paragraph that pretty much summed up exactly what I've been saying, and yet you still think that pointing out superiority or inferiority in certain areas is linked to being "a better human" which is ridiculous to me. That, specifically, is an effect of recent feminist thought that thinks "equal" is a synonym for "identical" when speaking about humans.
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And I will not sink to childish name calling and sniping to do so. THAT would make me look like an inferiour human being and I strive for otherwise.
Fair enough, if you'd like me to be more blunt with my incredulity I will do so. To be honest I feel that expressing it the way I did is more polite than directly calling someone out.
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