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Another try after a bad experience - 10/15/2009 8:32:59 AM   
Andalusite


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A lot of people seem to put something on their "limits" list if their first try goes wrong, or even if it just "sounds" scary. Heck, for that matter, a lot of people seem to feel that if they try having sex with someone of the same gender and don't like it, that they must not be bisexual after all, rather than just unattracted to that specific person/sexual activity/both.

I've been very fortunate to mostly have good experiences with new things, but a couple have gone wrong. About 5 years ago, I took a playpiercing class, and the instructor required that everyone get at least one needle (giving was optional). I teamed up with a Top/Dominant who was a regular playpartner of mine at the time, and a female switch who I had known for a while, but hadn't played with before. Inserting one needle in each of them went fine, and they did one to each other as well. When it was my turn, I nearly fainted - my vision went black, I couldn't say anything or move even though I could still hear them/feel them, and I got rather freaked out by it. The instructor removed the needles for me, and I had a good meal shortly afterward with lots of protein. I think several factors contributed. I was kneeling, so my circulation may have been a bit compromised, I ate a couple of hours before the class started, but it went for another 2 hours or so before it was my turn, and I hadn't had protein, just carbs for breakfast, and we did it cold without any warmup. I've never had trouble with giving blood, so I didn't *think* the needles per se were the problem, but I had some trepidation about trying it again.

My playpartner loves/flies from needles, and we've incorporated her self-inflicting them in a couple of scenes, and I've watched a couple of demos since then. We discussed my learning how to give them back when we first became playpartners, almost a month ago, and I wanted to try them again, but was a bit nervous.

Last night, a Dominant who she plays with sometimes, and who I've been friends with for years, invited us to his home, to learn about playpiercing. He's a very experienced needle top, and has taught classes before on the subject. He demonstrated on my playpartner first, with 5 needles, then her husband did one in her arm. He's mostly vanilla, but openminded and
willing to give it a try to please her occasionally. Then, my Master and I each inserted one in her breasts.

It was my turn next, and my Master caned me first as a warmup, to get the endorphins going. I lay down, so that there wouldn't be as likely to be any circulation issues or light-headedness, and it barely hurt at all! He did one on my back, burying the tip so I could lie on it, then one in each breast, then crossed one with another needle to make an "endorphin button" (going in on one side of the first needle, out over the top squeezing the skin between the two, then in/out again). I got a bit of an endorphin buzz, and felt lovely, but didn't go spacy or uncoordinated. I went ahead and did a couple more piercings, on my playpartner, to make sure I was comfortable with the correct procedure on my own without supervision in the future. Then, I removed all of her needles, and my Master took out each of mine. It felt somewhere between a class and a scene, since there were 3 of us learning, but of course, it was very informal.

The needles felt wonderful, but even better was trusting my Master to try something that I'd had a nasty experience with, analysing what went wrong, trying to take measures to prevent them, but ultimately putting my faith in him to keep me safe and turn it into something good instead. Anyone else have something that they've really disliked or had problems with in the past, but have turned it into something they love?
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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/15/2009 9:27:03 AM   
DesFIP


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It's easier to put things on a limit list then to say that you may be willing to try it again in the right circumstances. Because if you say that, what you tend to get is a lot of email saying that's the first thing he'll do.

Most everything is eventually up for discussion with a trusted partner in the right time and circumstances, but the right time and place is usually not the first play session and can well be years down the line.

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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/15/2009 10:10:46 AM   
Kana


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When I am playing with someone, every few months we will have a state of the union and discuss things. I have found that there are acts I love to do with one partner that give me no pleasure with another (This is based in part on how she reacts to my deviations.Needle play is a good example here. Lots of fun with those who like it-awful with those who don't.) There are also acts I would not have considered a few years ago but I love doing now.
There is an ebb and a flow and I think its important to examine these things periodically

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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/15/2009 10:11:01 AM   
allthatjaz


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Anyone else have something that they've really disliked or had problems with in the past, but have turned it into something they love?


Yes.....needles. I used to be so terrified of them that I would stop breathing and hyperventilate. Funnily enough it wasn't the needle going in but the needle coming out.

I have been doing needle workshops for years now and have absolutely lost my phobia. I love giving needles and love taking them too.
My best friend was like me and the first time I put a needle in his back he passed out but he has gone on to be a total needle addict and he does some amazing needle performances in the clubs.
I have worked with a lot of people that start off fairly phobic and go on to find needles very addictive.

Sounds like your having fun and taken the time to learn properly. Be interesting to see what your doing with needles a year from now.

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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/16/2009 8:03:46 AM   
Andalusite


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DesFIP, I haven't run into that, but I don't like listing limits or likes right there in my profile. Much more fun and interesting to discuss in person, and not really their business unless we want to move forward anyway! It seems odd that a stranger would want to do something on the "soft limits" list (I'll do it with the right person in the right circumstances) right off the bat, even if they were one of the "I'll push your limits" types.

Kana, that sounds like a good idea! Caning and singletails seemed a little scary at first, but after reading a lot of posts from people who loved them, I was intrigued enough to give them a try! Now, they're two of my favourite "toys."

Maria, it's interesting that needles were in that category for you as well! I've helped someone to work on a needle phobia before, but to make him more comfortable with getting shots and having blood drawn, not for playpiercing.

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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/16/2009 10:06:43 AM   
allthatjaz


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Andalusite, its interesting what you said in your initial post about having a caning first to get the endorphins going.
When I have taken flesh hooks I am always flogged (not hard) on the area where the hooks are to go and I am sure it helps enormously.

Steve once tried to dominate me with needles and I completely freaked out. Every needle he put in me felt like a knife cutting through me. Normally when I take needles its in a very calm environment with soft music and incense candles burning and each needle feels like a wonderful journey.

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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/16/2009 10:41:40 AM   
shadowowl


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It's the subs job to set limits it's the D's job to remove them.  Is how I look at things.  But they have to remove them the right way with care and do regard for the subs well being.   if a D doesn't expand or remove limits of a sub over  time then they aren't doing their part.
But that's just my opinion. :)

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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/16/2009 11:31:39 AM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
DesFIP, I haven't run into that, but I don't like listing limits or likes right there in my profile. Much more fun and interesting to discuss in person, and not really their business unless we want to move forward anyway! It seems odd that a stranger would want to do something on the "soft limits" list (I'll do it with the right person in the right circumstances) right off the bat, even if they were one of the "I'll push your limits" types.


Forget about the soft limit list, try the hard limit list instead! And yes it was weird for someone to say the first thing they would do is break my trust by doing something I absolutely cannot handle.

As far as a dom's job being to break a sub's limits? WTF. So if her limit are broken bones he should take a hammer to her fingers? Limits are there for reasons of health; physical, emotional and mental. There's never a reason to harm someone and give them reason to distrust you.

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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/16/2009 11:38:37 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Most everything is eventually up for discussion with a trusted partner in the right time and circumstances

Words of wisdom.

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~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/16/2009 12:29:02 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Anyone else have something that they've really disliked or had problems with in the past, but have turned it into something they love?


if my Owner is into the girl on girl thing and would sincerely find joy in seeing that i'll do it. i was bisexual in the past and have no interest in women in that capacity, but i'm willing to budge if it pleases Him. though admittedly this one isn't that hard.

however, poly was a huge hell no. so much so i wouldn't consider a person at all if He mentioned wanting such. now i've come to see it differently and had to weigh out several things including my desire for something more absolute. i simply couldn't keep this on the list if i wanted to surrender all. so off it came. while i don't market myself in this vain, if the One i'm with indicates He wants another or carte blanche in some respect where this is concerned, i will not protest. it takes far more energy and effort to say no than to make a sincere attempt to embrace a different concept. in the end it is always for Him.

porcelaine


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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/16/2009 12:31:14 PM   
SailingBum


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yea I dont get it.  You have a bad exp one time so you STOP doing it for the rest of your life.  WTF Over.  To put in into perspective I m sure most of us here have lost a loved one for any number of reasons.  Using the OP logic you stop loving.  HUH???  You get in a car wreck so you stop driving for the rest of your life.  UH NO!

You do like everything else.  Pick UP, Dust OFF, and Rock ON with life!!!  Get IT???

Motown BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 10/16/2009 1:28:21 PM >


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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/16/2009 12:35:06 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Anyone else have something that they've really disliked or had problems with in the past, but have turned it into something they love?


Long hours in the practice room, writing, gardening, various styles of music, certain people....

Things change.

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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/16/2009 11:32:04 PM   
Andalusite


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Andalusite, its interesting what you said in your initial post about having a caning first to get the endorphins going.
When I have taken flesh hooks I am always flogged (not hard) on the area where the hooks are to go and I am sure it helps enormously.  Steve once tried to dominate me with needles and I completely freaked out.

I can take a lot of some kinds of pain, but without a warmup, I can be rather a wimp, I'm afraid, especially for "sting" type of pain.  Especially since I thought it might have been a contributing factor the other time, I was really glad that he approached it that way.

shadowowl, I certainly don't view my "job" as setting limits - if anything, I try not to think of it in those terms more than necessary!  The areas that actually are boundaries are mostly specific aspects I'm uncomfortable with, as narrowly set as possible to address the specific health/safety concern, and my Master shares most of them.  I don't consider myself to be "no limits," but I'm working on the areas that aren't hard limits, but that I'm nervous about or have had bad experiences with, such as the needles.

DesFIP, since you said you might consider trying it again under the right circumstances, I assumed it was a soft limit rather than hard.  Sorry about the confusion!

porcelaine, I'm pretty much the opposite - open to a polyfi vee or triad, and casual BDSM play, but am very worried about open relationships and casual sex.  Fortunately, this is something I discussed with my Master, and he is happy with our current playpartner, and looking for a girlfriend to share at some point.  I agree that it hurts a lot and is very difficult for me to resist him in any respect.

Sailingbum, huh?  I just said that I *hadn't* made it a limit, but it was something I was nervous about.  My previous Dominant wasn't into needle play, so it didn't really come up.

Musicmystery, that's a very good point!  I was thinking more specifically in terms of specific forms of S/M and such, but there are a lot of things that I've been scared of, or didn't like, or wasn't good at, but kept on perservering, or changed over time.  I used to be extremely shy about both public speaking and meeting new people, and after pushing myself through it a bit, I became far more comfortable with both, and much more outgoing!

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 10/16/2009 11:34:24 PM >

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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/17/2009 4:10:15 AM   
DesFIP


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Anda, I wasn't clear. That line about doms and limits wasn't to you but to shadowowl who said a dom's job is to remove limits the sub sets. Not unless the sub also thinks that's okay.

But I have a weird hard limit, no duct tape. The whole idea of duct tape on me is overwhelmingly scary, to the point of a panic attack. Now I know most people have no problem with this but I do. There are a lot of very strange men out there who focused not on what I was interested in but on this. They wrote me to say that the first thing they would do is this despite the fact that I was very clear that I would never consent to it. What that said is that they are untrustworthy and would harm me.

With him, since we've been together for about eight years now, I could tolerate duct tape over saran for a short time because I trust him to get it off before I'm in a full blown anxiety attack. I still couldn't enjoy it. Actually even typing this is causing my breathing to get quick, to me it is that scary. But I trust him to be able to do it in a way that would not make me ill, I don't trust anyone else to do so. And if he did it and I had a panic attack anyway? I wouldn't be up to repeating it immediately. It would have to be on my time frame, not his.

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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/17/2009 5:05:16 AM   
daintydimples


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It's been my experience that a first time trying something is more or less a trial run (unless it sets off some majorly bad emotional triggers).

Context is everything, so talking about what made the submissive uncomfortable is important to knowing how to tweak things for the next time. The submissive needs to be in the right kind of space. Which means you need to know that submissive well before you start pushing soft limits or expanding their horizons.


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Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?




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RE: Another try after a bad experience - 10/17/2009 5:39:29 AM   
bliss4us09


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A great story - and a good illustration of the virtues of patience and an open mind. Thanks for sharing it.

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