Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ?

Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (Full Version)

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masoslavetoown -> Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (10/20/2009 12:43:59 AM)
Hi, i am about to enter into a real total Mistress/slave relationship such as Ingrid Bellemare describe in Her book called Owning And Training A male slave. It is about Non-consentual slavery in a Mistress/slave relationship. i shall be soon relocating to another state for a Mistress who wants a total ownership of me with no possibility of release and documented as in the book. i will be happy to hear the point of view of any Mistresses here.

thishereboi -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (10/20/2009 4:58:10 AM)
Well if that's true, the first thing I would suggest is to take out the ad in your profile. If your already at the point that you are discussing relocating to be with someone, why would you still be looking. Now I can't comment on the book, but if you will be living in the states, you will always have the option of leaving if your not happy. Kidnapping is against the law here. Good luck with your new Mistress.

GraciousLady -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (10/20/2009 6:45:45 AM)
I have some personal knowledge of this sort of thing. I brought a male to my home from acrosss the US. It was, to say the least, disasterous. Although I am not saying it is impossiable to have such a situation work the odds are against it. It became apparent to me in the first hours he had misrepresentated himself. The basic problem you run into is 2 people talking via phone, e mail, IM. w/e don't see the whole of the other person. Even if it is not the huge disaster my expierence was there is still a matter of 2 personalities that have never tested the compatability waters. One or both of you may find the reality of your relationship far different than the fantasy it has thus far been. Seperate homes is the best way to safely get to know each other and decide if the two of you would like to continue.

OttersSwim -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (10/20/2009 7:19:15 AM)
Wow...talk about taking a risk with your life! My suggestion would be to open a savings account at a national bank and put some money in there so you have at least somewhere to go and get on with life if this ends in disaster or tears.

UmbraDomina -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (10/20/2009 8:51:22 AM)
if you don't put any worth in yourself, as a submissive male, why would any dominant woman find worth in you? If the dominant woman is so wonderful, and great why would she want someone in her life, and offer them her precious time and energy if they are worthless?

MistressTaboo -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (10/20/2009 10:38:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UmbraDomina if you don't put any worth in yourself, as a submissive male, why would any dominant woman find worth in you? If the dominant woman is so wonderful, and great why would she want someone in her life, and offer them her precious time and energy if they are worthless? Thank you...that's perfect...

OttersSwim -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (10/20/2009 10:46:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UmbraDomina if you don't put any worth in yourself, as a submissive male, why would any dominant woman find worth in you? If the dominant woman is so wonderful, and great why would she want someone in her life, and offer them her precious time and energy if they are worthless? I'm sorry, was your reply to my post or to the OP? Your post does not seem to have any direct correlation to anything that has been posted nor the OPs profile...not sure where you were trying to go with this?

UmbraDomina -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (10/20/2009 10:50:56 AM)
Otter, I do apoligize for not making it clear. It was directed at the OP. It seems to me that his desire to fufill his fantasy has overcome any comman sence. He asked for dominant females to give their opinion, and my opinion is that he offers no self worth, so why would any dominant woman want to spend her time and energy fufilling his fantasies?

undergroundsea -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (10/20/2009 11:19:07 AM)
I think the plan is risky, especially if you have not met before. The philosophy to which you refer relies on blackmail and methods of coercion to maintain the consent. If someone wants to enter a dynamic of that type, it is their choice. But I think it's wise to ask what if it does not work out? What if the chemistry that is necessary to feel and serve in that way does not come? What if the person in question is not honorable? A submissive's needs and wants come from a sum of needs and wants defined by different components: primal needs, ego-related needs, social needs, spiritual needs, and masochistic needs. I think the dynamic in question addresses the masochistic needs and possibly the spiritual needs. If your masochistic needs have been unmet, right now they are higher in priority. Once they become met, other needs, like social needs, will become higher in priority. The point I wish to convey is that the current emphasis might be too much towards masochistic needs, and to ask if that is the case, what you will do when social needs become important and if they cannot be provided by a dynamic from which you will be kept from leaving. Those who practice Owner/property dynamics emphasize that it is not for everyone, and to think about the dynamic thoroughly before entering it. I am not saying it is not the dynamic for you because I do not know much about you. I am saying to think about these aspects first. Cheers, Sea

Lockit -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (10/20/2009 1:53:27 PM)
What chemistry is needed in forced slavery? Forced? Well... let's see... one could do a lot of time for any forced slave that does escape... so don't plan on escaping. No out, no choice... yeah... okay. No sane person would want to force slavery on someone, break a lot of laws, lose everything they have, etc... for a guy who will serve their household, when they can have that without the lawbreaking. Docutmented as in the book? WTF? I always document all my unlawful activities... lol Fantasy... nothing more... beyond that... my opinion... STUPID!

cloudboy -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (11/9/2009 9:32:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: masoslavetoown Hi, i am about to enter into a real total Mistress/slave relationship such as Ingrid Bellemare describe in Her book called Owning And Training A male slave. It is about Non-consentual slavery in a Mistress/slave relationship. i shall be soon relocating to another state for a Mistress who wants a total ownership of me with no possibility of release and documented as in the book. i will be happy to hear the point of view of any Mistresses here. Be sure to write back to us and tell us how its going.

GYPSYMAMBO -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (11/9/2009 10:11:04 PM)
OP: Let someone know where you are going..address etc..map..and have a code word/sentence such as "oh ya its all peachy keen here" to MEAN you are in trouble>>if you get to phone..so they KNOW TO COME FOR YOU GET a locker at the bus station and have clothes in it and some money.. AND ID!!!!!!!!! and hide that fukkin key You may going to a wonderful fantasy life,.......... you may be going to a death.. *ps...it may be hard to find someone who will come and get you for many will think you are totally irresponsible...* GM

azjojoba -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (11/10/2009 1:46:59 AM)
You cannot be serious! Nobody could be this stupid.

Tinkerer -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (11/10/2009 2:08:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: azjojoba You cannot be serious! Nobody could be this stupid. I don't know about our OP, but I'v met a lot of people that surprise me by dressing themselves in the morning. I'd agree, if you are really dead set on doing this, have a GOOD (Get Out Of Dodge) kit stashed some place, and don't tell her about it. Have a set of confidential signals that you can give your friends, and arrange to check in with them. There are some scary, scary people out there, women and children included.

vincentML -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (11/10/2009 9:15:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea I think the plan is risky, especially if you have not met before. The philosophy to which you refer relies on blackmail and methods of coercion to maintain the consent. If someone wants to enter a dynamic of that type, it is their choice. But I think it's wise to ask what if it does not work out? What if the chemistry that is necessary to feel and serve in that way does not come? What if the person in question is not honorable? A submissive's needs and wants come from a sum of needs and wants defined by different components: primal needs, ego-related needs, social needs, spiritual needs, and masochistic needs. I think the dynamic in question addresses the masochistic needs and possibly the spiritual needs. Obviously, i am not a Mistress, but i have read the book so indulge my impressions please. Undergroundsea is correct. The nonconsensual process is maintained by submission to blackmail of one sort or other. You can walk away but you will pay dire consequences for having signed over consent to the publication of embarrassing photos. I smell something very illegal in that despite the model's consent. Secondly, I found the whose scenario as laid out by Bellemare to be "souless." If you are looking for "spiritual" fulfillment in any fashion you will not find it here. You will find only demerits and punishment. Trainiing is based upon the application of the cane to demerits kept by the slave in his diary. Cherished pet? In no sense of the word. Strictly a utilitarian object trained in robotic fashion. Good luck with all that.

cloudboy -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (11/10/2009 4:17:39 PM)
Depersonalization is sexy and erotic, unfortunately its also depersonalizing....... A kinder reading of her book would be that in order for the D/S dynamic to work, it needs to be omnipresent and full time in its implementation. To her, the worst thing that happens in M/S relationships is "devolvement" and the popping up of gray areas which undermine power exchange (not being in the mood, vanilla time, indulging the sub or slave's demands or needs, etc.) According to her, subs and slaves respond best to total control and omnipresent power exchange (bright lines, full time enforcement), and that Mistresses experience more satisfaction and less frustration by "grabbing the reigns" of power and being clear and consistent in what they demand and expect of their subs at all times without exception. She does not believe in sceneing or playing -- but rather fulltime, fully committed lifestyles. The blackmail element of her equation is less blackmail than it is a built in penalty for breaking the M/S contract. According to her, the penalty should be stiff and severe for a slave or sub failing to meet his commitment. Although this looks horrible and one sided for the sub or slave, she claims that enforced slavery is actually freeing and good for those disposed to the lifestyle. Fundamental to her is the removal of choice from a slave, who must learn to always surrender and obey. Societal outs and allowances only undermine the achievement of such an M/S relationship, so measures are needed to bind the slave to the Mistress. Unquestionably an Ingrid Bellemare slave departs from the grid of normal, "well adjusted" living, but that's the point for her as anything less is a watered down, flaccid, uninspired form of M/S living. I thought she made a good case defending her views.

undergroundsea -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (11/10/2009 5:15:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy The blackmail element of her equation is less blackmail than it is a built in penalty for breaking the M/S contract. According to her, the penalty should be stiff and severe for a slave or sub failing to meet his commitment. If the dominant is honorable, I can see this scenario to work. However, an interest in dominance is distributed across population and there are varying degrees of how honorable dominants might be. I can imagine that sometimes what is needed is motivation for someone to deal with issues that can be overcome and not have choice to leave. I can imagine that sometimes what is needed is to end the dynamic. Her approach does not distinguish between the two scenarios. I am skeptical about the scenario at hand where one is moving to another state without having met the potential owner. I feel all responsibility and risk is put upon the submissive. I can imagine a sub making such a commitment for sake of inexperience, or for sake of thinking from the genitalia at the moment this commitment is made. Thus, I am not convinced the decision is given due thought in all cases. I have indeed given thought to this matter after conversation with friends who choose an Owner/property dynamic. I see there are difficult questions that apply to this issue and plan to continue to have discussions to understand their perspective. At the moment I do not support the Bellemare approach. If a sub felt trapped by such a scenario, my advice to the sub would be to consult a contract attorney and see if the validity of the contract signed for model release can be challenged. Cheers, Sea

MsMillgrove -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (11/10/2009 5:17:25 PM)
Years ago a close friend of mine put herself into a cloistered convent where the rules included silence and no contact with "the world". YOu could not "leave" if it became too much for you, you could only peition for release which might be granted six months later. Tasks were menial. Obedience was total. Punishments were severe. Yes, before making this commitment, you did live there a year or so first, under the rules and then you could take vows. You had this mutual trial period of postulance, so that you did know what you were getting into. It's not that much diffrerent from the scenario described in the book. My friend did leave, but some stayed for a lifetime. There is a spirtual element is giving up everything. However, even if everything worked well, unlike the convent which was set up to endure as nuns in charge died and others replace them--in this mistress-slave scenario--what happens when she dies? The slave would be so conditioned that he couldn't provide for himself, he'd be truly helpless. It's a rather scary prospect whether it succeeds or fails. Very minor point--don't stash stuff in bus station lockers--they are only good for a few days and then.. the fee must be paid again.. if you don't collect your things or pay up constantly.. you're stuff is held for ten days and then disposed of. Not a practical stash location for more than a couple days.

cloudboy -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (11/10/2009 10:32:14 PM)
I'm not slave material (at least I don't think so), so the Bellemare approach to me is too extreme. But her views have a logical consistency, and if we are to believe her, have worked in her relationship very well. I don't think most women share Bellemar's seriousness and singlemindedness, which seem to be her drivers. She does not come off as a megalomaniac, reckless sadist, or cynical opportunist. I do think you could tag her as supremacist, especially within the confines of her M/S relationship. What gets me more than anything, is that there's a lot more to life than S&M, and I suppose one "problem" with Bellemare's position is that it exaggerates the importance of D/S in a relationship while muting all the other M-F dynamics. Most people don't operate like her, hence her book isn't the best template for others to adopt. Still, I liked it because she articulated a valid position for what she considers an ideal M/S relationship.

cloudboy -> RE: Does any Mistresses knows Ingrid Bellemare ? (11/10/2009 10:37:23 PM)
I would agree that the slave is in co dependent relationship -- one that might have a crippling effect for reentry into the real world. I think your comparison to a convent is a good one: no sex, devotion, sacrifice, and obedience. It would take quite a Mistress to inspire such devotion from a slave over a long period of time. I think she would have to be "something special" to pull it off.

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