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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 3:36:23 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
http://www.lermanet.com/not-a-religion-by-hubbard.htm


Lol, I bet Scientologists don't want people reading that.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 4:16:37 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		They tried to sue a couple of books that published it out of pint back in the '80s, iirc.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 4:26:59 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

If there's no "diety" how can it be a religion?



Wicca?


That religion isn't a good example:

"Wiccans, as followers of Wicca are now commonly known, typically worship a Goddess (traditionally the Triple Goddess) and a God[3] (traditionally the Horned God), who are sometimes represented as being a part of a greater pantheistic Godhead, and as manifesting themselves as various polytheistic deities." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca



Okay, let's try Buddhism.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 4:34:43 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Okay, let's try Buddhism.


That's a better example.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 4:39:53 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		One thing Scientology has in common with religion is that it is a fraud. Scientology is not true and neither is the existence of God.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 4:42:46 PM   
Louve00


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

That said, didn't he publish a book of Gorean sex games adults could experiment with around the turn of the '80s?


He published a book called Imaginative Sex in 1974 that had nothing to do with Gor.  The book gave ideas to spruce up ones sex life in kinky ways and in some instances and examples it would go explicitly against a Gorean's belief.  In others it would support it. 

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For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 4:51:49 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		LOL.... that book of sex games!

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 5:20:16 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

That said, didn't he publish a book of Gorean sex games adults could experiment with around the turn of the '80s?


He published a book called Imaginative Sex in 1974 that had nothing to do with Gor.  The book gave ideas to spruce up ones sex life in kinky ways and in some instances and examples it would go explicitly against a Gorean's belief.  In others it would support it. 

Thank you. I thought it was published later than that.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 5:31:41 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		LOL... its not gorean.. gesh.  Nor do goreans present themselves as any religion, but a set of philosophies.  But, gotta admit, i do prefer a gorean male.... something about them in the bedroom... well... ~grins

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 5:32:13 PM   
Rhodes85


Posts: 445
Joined: 11/15/2008
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Status: offline 		'Every time I hear about Scientology, I think of a story I heard at a Science Fiction convention I attended many years ago.
I was in a group of people talking with Dr. Issac Asimov. Dr. A related a time when he and a group of other science fiction writers, including L. Ron Hubbard were in a coffee shop having breakfast. They were all talking about the finances of science fiction writing (not a lucrative field at that time). Hubbard's idea on this was simple. "Why should I write science fiction and get paid a nickel a word?" he asked. "I can make up a religion and get paid a dollar a word."

And thus Scientology was born. '

LOL!!! now *that* is the most amusing thing i've read in months. and i'll bet you anything you're one hundred percent right.

'I don't think you can call Gor a religion. First of all, Norman isn't making any money on it (unless he's getting some kind of payment for the book sales). I would say that Goreans (and I do not mean to give offense to Goreans) are more akin to hard core Star Trek fans who view the federation as a model for living or SCA members who more people know by their mideval name than their real one. The big difference is that Gor was never presented as a guide for living or a path to spiritual enlightenment. Some people choose to view it as such, but that was never it's overt or hidden purpose. In fact, having read all the series (don't ask), I tend to think most of his philosophy passages were written because he was getting paid by the word.'

I have to agree. Although some people do attempt to live as close as possible to the books, Gor is just a set of books. It was never intended as an actual lifetyle nor a religion. I also have to agree with the star trek analogy. It would be no more an actual (intended) lifestyle or religion to base your life off of Gor than it would be to put on a starfleet uniform and a set of pointed ears and live like a vulcan. Its just the way some people chose to live rather than any intention of the author.

as for scientology....I can't believe anyone actually takes it seriously as a real religion. I mean really, it was created by a science fiction writer (red flag anyone...?) and uses a pseudo-lie detector to 'audit' people, which then have to pay to advance in the religion. sometimes I wonder if i'm the only person who finds that a little odd. I'm all for freedom of religion and all that but really, how can anyone take those people seriously?

Its no wonder Germany considers it a dangerous cult. and on a related note...did anyone catch that south park episode that spoofed scientology?

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 7:54:13 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I don't believe Scientology is a religion but I do believe this guy because he tells the truth.

Richard Dawkins - The Greatest Show on Earth - Full

His controversial bestseller "The God Delusion" angered some, inspired others. Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins. Now the world's most famous atheist has come out with a new book that sets out to make the open-and-shut case for evolution. It's called "The Greatest Show on Earth".

http://www.tvo.org/TVO/WebObjects/TVO.woa?video?AG_Int_20091023_907859_RDawkins

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 9:50:58 PM   
einstien5201


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

I'd rather consider it to be a cult.



What's the difference between a cult and a religion? Is there a set number of followers a belief system has to obtain in order to 'graduate' from one to the other? In my experience, cult has been used primarly as a scare tactic when one religion slanders another.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

re⋅li⋅gion

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.



By my reckoning, Scientology meets at least definitions 2 and 3. 4, 5, and 6 are for different usages of the word, so we'll ignore them. I'm not sure if Scientology addresses the creation or purpose of the universe as a whole, but I suspect that some other religions that are commonly accepted similarly deal only with the purpose of humanity and life on earth, so I'll give them that aspect. I'm not sure if there is a moral code in the belief structure. I suspect there is, though it may be significantly skewed from the one I follow. Clearly there are devotional and ritual observances (from what I've heard mostly financial in nature), so I think we're good on number 1 also. So, according to dictionary.com, Scientology qualifies as a religion under 3/3 (100%) of the relevant definitions. Sounds like a lock to me.

I don't agree with the beliefs espoused by the Church of Scientology. I think it's absolutely absurd, and I laughed as hard as I ever had at the South Park episode which explained (accurately, as far as I can tell), what the beliefs of the church are. But just because I disagree with them does not mean that they aren't a religion. Our culture and law, at least here in the United States, are based on the idea that as long as you're not hurting anyone, you're free to do as you wish. I leave you alone, you leave me alone. I'd like to think we inherited most of this from our culture's European ancestry, and that it is still shared across the Atlantic.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 10:25:27 PM   
Arrogance


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Status: offline 		There is as much inherently factual basis to consider Scientology as religion as there is to consider most of the other world's great religions. There are parts of every theology that offend mankind's logical senses. It just so happens that Scientology was created by a science fiction author in an era where people would not so keenly jump onto the bandwagon of ludicrous magical stories.

Is Scientology as religion? Yes. Is there any reason for it to have actually become one? I'm gonna go with no.

And that is why Scientology is in our Hard Limits list

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 10:50:47 PM   
RapierFugue


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Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Is Scientology a religion



I was going to say "no, it's not - it's just a way of parting gullible fools from their cash", but then I realised that was actually making it look more like a religion, not less.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 10:56:09 PM   
Acer49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Isn't that what  John Norman did, when he created Gor ?

To some, perhaps Gor is a religion, but if it is, then it holds on a par with Scientology, a twentieth century fictional writing that has expanded beyond fiction.

But then the world that we live in what with its daily media reported news of woe, is it surprising people latch onto something that  can exist within the mind, a place to escape to, when the world we are told  is so bleak.


quote:

To some, perhaps Gor is a religion, but if it is, then it holds on a par with Scientology, a twentieth century fictional writing that has expanded beyond fiction.

But then the world that we live in what with its daily media reported news of woe, is it surprising people latch onto something that can exist within the mind, a place to escape to, when the world we are told is so bleak.


Gor has less of a chance of being a religion than I have of becomming the pope and if you don't like the world as it is you work to change it, you don't wimp out and try to stick your head in the sand

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/30/2009 11:03:43 PM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arrogance

There is as much inherently factual basis to consider Scientology as religion as there is to consider most of the other world's great religions.



Too true. I've been trying to google for a page I used to love reading, called something like "sky fairy stuff various idiots believe" (or similar), listing the odder claims/histories of various religions, but I've lost it There were some absolute corkers in there.

There's also a lovely flowchart called "what [sic] religion is best for you?" where one of the questions (following you answering "yes" to the question "are you a naturally annoying person?") is "do you believe underwear can be magical?" - if you answer "yes" it's suggests Mormon, if "no" then Jehovah's Witnesses

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/31/2009 12:06:51 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
There's also a lovely flowchart called "what [sic] religion is best for you?" where one of the questions (following you answering "yes" to the question "are you a naturally annoying person?") is "do you believe underwear can be magical?" - if you answer "yes" it's suggests Mormon, if "no" then Jehovah's Witnesses

http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2009/10/a_flowchart_to_determine_what.php

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/31/2009 12:10:28 AM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
There's also a lovely flowchart called "what [sic] religion is best for you?" where one of the questions (following you answering "yes" to the question "are you a naturally annoying person?") is "do you believe underwear can be magical?" - if you answer "yes" it's suggests Mormon, if "no" then Jehovah's Witnesses

http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2009/10/a_flowchart_to_determine_what.php


That's the badger! Nice one, and cheers for finding it.

I love the questions about bacon and hummus too.

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RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/31/2009 12:12:05 AM   
einstien5201


Posts: 63
Joined: 9/29/2009
Status: offline 		I F*cking LOVE bacon!

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Is Scientology a religion? - 10/31/2009 12:20:52 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: einstien5201

I F*cking LOVE bacon!


There's a cracking series of sketches from the series "Goodness Gracious Me", which "simplify" certain asian religions. Hang on I'll see if I can find any of them online, even if it's just a script extract.

<looks>

Here you go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe3uSvxWKnI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cVqA8qBOlQ

They also did one on the meaning of being a muslim, but I presume YouTube shat themselves and removed it.

(in reply to einstien5201)
Profile   Post #: 60
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