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RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 6:57:13 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I make no case for the bill other than health care should never have been allowed to become for profit.


The day that you are willing to forego the drugs and treatments that were developed for their profits is the day I'll stop believing youre a hypocrite.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 6:59:28 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		If your theory is true... what amount of money spurred the discovery of pennicillin? Many of the drugs that have come from the "for profit" generation of health care are now ending up in class action lawsuits because they were pushed out too fast.

Makes ya wonder.

_____________________________

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 7:04:04 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If your theory is true... what amount of money spurred the discovery of pennicillin? Many of the drugs that have come from the "for profit" generation of health care are now ending up in class action lawsuits because they were pushed out too fast.

Makes ya wonder.


good, penicillin is on your allowed list. I assume you dont need a list of all of those drugs and treatments you'll have to forego. And your second comment sounds like the system is working the way its supposed to.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 7:09:39 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		If there is no profit motive for making new drugs, there will be no more new drugs. I worked at AT&T for 33 years for one reason. I made money there. Take away the money and you take away incentive to do anything.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 7:10:52 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If there is no profit motive for making new drugs, there will be no more new drugs. I worked at AT&T for 33 years for one reason. I made money there. Take away the money and you take away incentive to do anything.


I dont believe in absolutes. Take away the money and you take away 99.99% of the incentive to do anything.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 7:15:39 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If there is no profit motive for making new drugs, there will be no more new drugs. I worked at AT&T for 33 years for one reason. I made money there. Take away the money and you take away incentive to do anything.


So...........the only motivation people have in life is the pursuit of money?

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 7:23:33 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If there is no profit motive for making new drugs, there will be no more new drugs. I worked at AT&T for 33 years for one reason. I made money there. Take away the money and you take away incentive to do anything.



Uhhhhhhhhhhh, this just makes me cringe. You don't understand the basic concept of non-profits do you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-profit_organization

how can we possibly have reasonable argumentation, with so much ignorance and illogical underpinning?

Ron

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(in reply to servantforuse)
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RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 7:30:59 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If there is no profit motive for making new drugs, there will be no more new drugs. I worked at AT&T for 33 years for one reason. I made money there. Take away the money and you take away incentive to do anything.


I dont believe in absolutes. Take away the money and you take away 99.99% of the incentive to do anything.

Jonas Salk Biography -- Academy of Achievement

In 1955 Salk's years of research paid off. Human trials of the polio vaccine effectively protected the subject from the polio virus. When news of the discovery was made public on April 12, 1955, Salk was hailed as a miracle worker. He further endeared himself to the public by refusing to patent the vaccine. He had no desire to profit personally from the discovery, but merely wished to see the vaccine disseminated as widely as possible.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 7:38:18 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Things have changed in the last 50 years. It costs 100's of millions of dollars to develope new drugs and get them approved. If there is no profit for private companies to do the research, maybe the federal government will do it.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 7:41:53 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Maybe the federal government should do the research and patent the drugs and get licensing fees, it is sort of what they do with liqour.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 170
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 7:50:31 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Things have changed in the last 50 years. It costs 100's of millions of dollars to develope new drugs and get them approved. If there is no profit for private companies to do the research, maybe the federal government will do it.


The federal government already does.

Do you think all this research is actually done by the pharmaceutical companies?


Federal R&D, Drug Discovery, and Pricing: Insights from the NIH

However, questions are being raised as to whether or not the current balance is adequate, particularly with respect to drug discovery. The particular nature of health-related R&D and the $15.7 billion federal investment in this area has focused attention on the manner in which the National Institutes of Health undertakes research and development activities.

Critics maintain that the need for technology development incentives in the pharmaceutical and/or biotechnology sectors is mitigated by industry access to government-supported work at no cost, monopoly power through patent protection, and additional regulatory and tax advantages such as those conveyed through the Orphan Drug Act. Supporters of the existing approach argue that these incentives are precisely what are required and have given rise to robust pharmaceutical and biotechnology industries.



(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 8:03:18 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		When the Feds put the insurance companies out of business, they can set their sights on the drug companies. I am sure they will do a much better job developing new drugs than the private sector.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 8:07:46 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		works for me, yanno, the government is pretty fuckin good in technology....look at the military.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 173
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 8:10:11 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

My profession is nursing. Money is hardly a driving force in that profession. Try again.
Try and do what, change your previous answer that your have as you said; "Not only am i interested on a personal level, but also a professional one."

I can't argue with a bureaucrat who doesn't see a problem with their union benefits bankrupting the State, selfishness has no counter argument.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
But these are real, everyday examples why something has to change.

Of course it does. Eliminating the pre-existing condition exclusion, eliminate caps on claims, and set up a 'catastrophic' plan which is specifically earmarked for situations you document.

Put insurance back where it belongs, as a stop gap for catastrophe, not as a first response to a paper cut.

You don't need a national health insurance program to do that, only legislators without agenda and motivated by personal greed. We don't have them.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 9:04:00 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

My profession is nursing. Money is hardly a driving force in that profession. Try again.
Try and do what, change your previous answer that your have as you said; "Not only am i interested on a personal level, but also a professional one."

I can't argue with a bureaucrat who doesn't see a problem with their union benefits bankrupting the State, selfishness has no counter argument.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
But these are real, everyday examples why something has to change.

Of course it does. Eliminating the pre-existing condition exclusion, eliminate caps on claims, and set up a 'catastrophic' plan which is specifically earmarked for situations you document.

Put insurance back where it belongs, as a stop gap for catastrophe, not as a first response to a paper cut.

You don't need a national health insurance program to do that, only legislators without agenda and motivated by personal greed. We don't have them.



even prohibitions against excluding PXCs need to be carefully crafted to ensure against anti-selection.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 9:38:54 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

When the Feds put the insurance companies out of business, they can set their sights on the drug companies. I am sure they will do a much better job developing new drugs than the private sector.


Which does not address the issue that the drug companies benefit from government sponsored research for their products.

You know, like the swine flu vaccine that conservatives complained about the Obama administration authorizing money for, and are now complaining that there is not enough of it.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 5:57:29 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse


You know, like the swine flu vaccine that conservatives complained about the Obama administration authorizing money for, and are now complaining that there is not enough of it.



ORLY. Exactly who complained about it?

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 6:58:25 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


You know, like the swine flu vaccine that conservatives complained about the Obama administration authorizing money for, and are now complaining that there is not enough of it.



ORLY. Exactly who complained about it?


Amazingly enough, the person you are trying to defend, among others.

You do know there is a search engine on this site?

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

When will the Obama administration be held accountable for the swine flu debacle ? How in the world can the government run national health care when they can't even distribute a flu vaccine ? If Bush were still in office the left leaning media would be demanding answers. They are also silent on this matter.


And by the way, does it really take so much extra time out of your busy life, dealing with important investment managers who talk to major CEO's daily, to do those few extra keystrokes to say "oh, really" instead of  "orly"


< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/12/2009 7:08:46 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 7:17:12 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Pushed out too fast? We should create a government organization to oversee that, so that we may be protected. These drugs should go through a lot of trials, that are double and triple checked, and then they should come under even more scrutiny by the government before they are approved. Why is that not being included in all this money being spent?


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If your theory is true... what amount of money spurred the discovery of pennicillin? Many of the drugs that have come from the "for profit" generation of health care are now ending up in class action lawsuits because they were pushed out too fast.

Makes ya wonder.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: AMA & AARP endorse House health care bills - 11/12/2009 7:18:52 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah but at what cost effectiveness is that achieved?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

works for me, yanno, the government is pretty fuckin good in technology....look at the military.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 180
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