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RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/23/2009 4:44:55 PM   
pyroaquatic


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Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
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Kink is not a topic that I bring up often. If they are displaying the flags then, yes... why not? While I have no need to hide my preferences I have no business displaying my needs/wants to other unknowing people.

0_0

I think I said that right.

FR


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As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
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(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/23/2009 5:11:00 PM   
Hierodule


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How is a person on a leash not age appropriate? If the kid even noticed it and asked you about it you could just say " they are pretending to be a doggy" The kid would probably laugh and say "Thats silly!" Kids don't have any reason to prejudge something as sexual  and they are way more accepting of off the wall things than grown-ups are.

I was wearing an Iggy Pop t-shirt in line at the post office once and a little girl pointed at me and said "be a doggy be a doggy!" Her mom said "She loves Iggy Pop. "I wanna be your dog" is her favorite song." Can someone please tell me why a child would take "I wanna be your dog" as anything sexual unless an adult explained what sexual arousal is and how people get aroused by pretending to be animals? To kids its just make believe.

< Message edited by Hierodule -- 11/23/2009 5:16:22 PM >

(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/23/2009 5:28:29 PM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

How is a person on a leash not age appropriate? If the kid even noticed it and asked you about it you could just say " they are pretending to be a doggy" The kid would probably laugh and say "Thats silly!" Kids don't have any reason to prejudge something as sexual  and they are way more accepting of off the wall things than grown-ups are.



I agree. But I wonder, if leash couple would be offended by such a description.

(in reply to Hierodule)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/23/2009 5:32:01 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

How is a person on a leash not age appropriate? If the kid even noticed it and asked you about it you could just say " they are pretending to be a doggy" The kid would probably laugh and say "Thats silly!" Kids don't have any reason to prejudge something as sexual  and they are way more accepting of off the wall things than grown-ups are.



I agree. But I wonder, if leash couple would be offended by such a description.



IMO, by doing something in public you open yourself up to people's reactions - both positive and negative.

Basically if you believe you have the right to act the way you want to act in public, then you also believe others have the same right...there's no inherent difference between the freedom of expression to wear a leash and the freedom of expression to say "wow that person's a fucking idiot."

ETA - to clarify, the *intent* of the action might be different, but the intent makes no difference when we're talking about freedom to express yourself within the bounds of the law.

Submissiveness is an integral part of a person's personality, but then again so is judging anything different as negative.

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 11/23/2009 5:36:39 PM >

(in reply to Lucienne)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/23/2009 5:40:24 PM   
Hierodule


Posts: 597
Joined: 9/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

How is a person on a leash not age appropriate? If the kid even noticed it and asked you about it you could just say " they are pretending to be a doggy" The kid would probably laugh and say "Thats silly!" Kids don't have any reason to prejudge something as sexual  and they are way more accepting of off the wall things than grown-ups are.



I agree. But I wonder, if leash couple would be offended by such a description.



If it were me on the leash I would think its cute. I would prolly go " rrrrrr ruff ruff "

(in reply to Lucienne)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/23/2009 8:57:00 PM   
HimNbabygirl


Posts: 645
Joined: 11/4/2009
From: Knoxville, TN and Somewhere, WV
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quote:



If that's the case (which I actually believe it is) I hope you will not be offended that I will remind you that it's actually clip.  There's no "h".  Don't worry.  It happens all of the time.

For the rest, I won't correct you, as I do not know how you raised yours.  What I'll do instead is ask you how you handled situations with them such as running into that gay male couple in the restaurant or what you did when you ran into that interracial couple while you were at the mall?  These situations aren't any different than what is being discussed here.  They absolutely are age appropriate if the little person asking the question has the the level of maturity to ask.

As I said earlier in the thread, I'm actually very conservative on the issue.  I can promise you that your little people (who I assume are grown now) have heard far more disturbing things from the vanilla public than clip calling Me "Mistress" or if I call him lil one.  I'd say the same about the things they've seen that are a heck of a lot more shocking than My boy wearing his leather collar. 

Being a mother Myself, it is My opinion that My primary job from the time the little people were born until such time as they were ready to be a functioning adult in society, was My responsibility.  That includes, but wasn't limited to, explaining things they saw in public, in movies, on tv, sex, alternative lifestyles, My belief system, and I can't tell you how many other things.  It doesn't mean I was always happy about it, but it really did boil down to it being My job.  I still consider it My job, even though they aren't all still in the nest.

In My case, there is no leash down main street.  That is specifically because I understand that not all parents view the responsibility in the same manner that I do.  In such cases, I'm not especially sure it is the underage person's maturity level that I worry about.  It's more My concern about the person who brought them into the world.



As a parent of 3, step-parent of 2 and grandma of 1, i have taught those as children that love is love, God puts love in your heart, so as such it does not matter whether it is a man or woman. i have also taught them to be color blind so the inter-racial couple discussion has honestly never come up. my children come to me with their problems and concerns and a few of my daughters boyfriends have come to me for sexual advice because my daughter knows i will answer as truthfully as possible and if i don't know the answer, i will admit that and do my best to find an answer, or someone who can answer, for them. i have also been open and honest with my children about not only the joys, but the risks as well, that come with sex. i taught my daughter how to properly put on a condom (using a banana) and informed her that there were different ways of loving and if she ever wanted to experiment, that was fine but to do things safely, sanely and consensually. my reward for this was my daughter felt comfortable enough with me to tell me when she was considering having sex for the first time so i could make sure she was protected.

How children are raised is up to that child's parents. This is how i have, and am continuing to raise mine.

His baby girl

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/23/2009 9:10:33 PM   
LadyPact


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I'm glad to see that HimNbabygirl.  I wish I could say that every parent out there took a similar approach, but I'm afraid I've seen too much proof to the contrary.

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to HimNbabygirl)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/24/2009 12:49:14 AM   
HimNbabygirl


Posts: 645
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From: Knoxville, TN and Somewhere, WV
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@ LadyPact thank you. Over the years i have had others tell me i was not a very good mother because of these things. i like to think i have well rounded kids. And the after effect of all the people who told me i was a bad mother, now have grandchildren that were conceived and/or born while their child was still in middle school or high school (yes, i really did mean to say middle school, 6-8th grades here) i do have 1 grandson, the parents are now married, and my 18 year old did have 1 pregnancy scare (broke condom while off the pill) but she still felt she could come to me. i took her to buy the test, held her hand while waiting for the longest 5 minutes of her short life, and cried with her and held her when it came back negative (we did this 3 times that week just because she wanted to be sure) and now she KNOWS beyond a shadow of a doubt that mommy was right in saying, even if you aren't currently in a relationship, stay on the birth control and carry condoms in your purse at ALL times. {knocks on wood} so far all my sons have managed to stay out of trouble.

Still, all in all it is nice to have someone, just every once in a while, look at you and say something along the lines of "you know, you're really not a blathering idiot after all"it just brings on the warm fuzzies.

His baby girl

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/24/2009 3:29:43 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Where do you personally draw the line between "imposing your kink on unwilling bystanders" and simply "refusing to live a closeted life"?


Will never understand the "closeted life" thing and why some BDSMers feel the need/desire to "involve" others in their dynamic.  I mean... 'nilla folks don't wear their sexuality on their sleeve, so why do those involved in a power dynamic feel they want/need to? 

Example:  Lots of 'nilla chicks like anal... but should they show up hand-n-hand with their husband at the local bistro with a dildo sticking out their ass?  No... and neither should a kink couple show up adorned in collar-n-leash.  To me, it's as simple as THE GRANDMA TEST... if you wouldn't do it in front of Grandma, then don't do it in public.  Simple. 





< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 11/24/2009 3:30:31 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/24/2009 4:00:58 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
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I'm somewhere along the lines of involving people in our kink would be for us, to activly try to get them to notice our kink by purposly doing eye catching things in front of them, hoping they wuold notice or be shocked, where as, calling him daddy and holding his hand out in public isn't to me involving others in our kink, because we're not being flashy and overt and all hey "look at us look at us" Daddy is just simply what I call him an that's not going to change for the random public.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Where do you personally draw the line between "imposing your kink on unwilling bystanders" and simply "refusing to live a closeted life"?

For me, the simplest distinction is whether the interaction with the third party is a part of the kink, or even if you're interaction with that third party is kink oriented. Flashing someone in a park needs a third person to work; telling your friends that if they come over your slave will be naked doesn't, because the slave would be naked anyway and they have a choice whether or not they want to visit your home. Wearing a collar in public is just a refusal to take off what you wear otherwise, whereas calling a saleswoman "Mistress" is inappropriate.


Thoughts?

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/24/2009 6:06:22 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Where do you personally draw the line between "imposing your kink on unwilling bystanders" and simply "refusing to live a closeted life"?


Will never understand the "closeted life" thing and why some BDSMers feel the need/desire to "involve" others in their dynamic.  I mean... 'nilla folks don't wear their sexuality on their sleeve, so why do those involved in a power dynamic feel they want/need to? 

Example:  Lots of 'nilla chicks like anal... but should they show up hand-n-hand with their husband at the local bistro with a dildo sticking out their ass?  No... and neither should a kink couple show up adorned in collar-n-leash.  To me, it's as simple as THE GRANDMA TEST... if you wouldn't do it in front of Grandma, then don't do it in public.  Simple. 







Oddly enough, i dont mind the collar. I do mind the leash. I raised mine to respect women as well as men. His first sex education class with me started when he was 5, and its still ongoing at 23. A collar can be explained as jewelry, a leash gives a child the idea that who is leashed is a dog. Not exactly the image a child needs to have when thinking of a partner for romance.

I, personally, feel children have enough problems dealing with vanilla relationships, the angst of first crushes, the heart breaks of teenage love, without having to add into the mix kinks that most of us didnt discover until our late teens to early 20's.

_____________________________

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(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/25/2009 1:42:51 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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For many it has nothing to do with sexuality, it has to do with an inter-personal relationship. People that are "nilla" bring their inter-personal relationships into public all of the time, but society determines what is or is not acceptable. Ever seen the interaction of a traditional asian couple in public? A middle eastern traditional couple?

The interaction of myself and my slave has nothing to do with sexuality. The reason society has a problem with it is societal programming of what is considered acceptable and what is not. Used to be that dancing in public was taboo, rock music, wearing skirts above a certain length, etc., etc,. etc.

It has even been mentioned in this topic "What do I tell my kids when they see XXXXXX?" So that shows that it is primarily a function of what people are and are not comfortable with speaking about. Well there is a great big fucking elephant in the room, and there is no need to shove it in the closet.

Now the sexual parts, that is dependent upon the law and what a person is willing to accept the consequences of. I have more of a problem with people "sharing" their music, than with anything two people are doing.

If people do not want to see, hear, or be subject to certain legal activities that assault their sense of propriety, then they have the option to just stay home and watch Leave it to Beaver, The Brady Bunch, or my personal favorite, the Andy Griffith Show.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Will never understand the "closeted life" thing and why some BDSMers feel the need/desire to "involve" others in their dynamic.  I mean... 'nilla folks don't wear their sexuality on their sleeve, so why do those involved in a power dynamic feel they want/need to? 



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/25/2009 2:22:47 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
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So what "great big fucking elephant" of an "interaction" that's of a non-sexual nature do you and your slave what to pull out of the "closet" in public?  Can you not hold-hands... have her serve you... remain silent... avoid eye contact... sit/stand beside/behine you... or whatever that an otherwise termed 'nilla couple would do in public???  What exactly has left you and yours feeling so repressed in public for having left said "great big fucking elephant" in the "closet"???


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

For many it has nothing to do with sexuality, it has to do with an inter-personal relationship. People that are "nilla" bring their inter-personal relationships into public all of the time, but society determines what is or is not acceptable. Ever seen the interaction of a traditional asian couple in public? A middle eastern traditional couple?

The interaction of myself and my slave has nothing to do with sexuality. The reason society has a problem with it is societal programming of what is considered acceptable and what is not.

...Well there is a great big fucking elephant in the room, and there is no need to shove it in the closet.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Will never understand the "closeted life" thing and why some BDSMers feel the need/desire to "involve" others in their dynamic.  I mean... 'nilla folks don't wear their sexuality on their sleeve, so why do those involved in a power dynamic feel they want/need to? 




_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/25/2009 2:55:29 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
Example:  Lots of 'nilla chicks like anal... but should they show up hand-n-hand with their husband at the local bistro with a dildo sticking out their ass? 


So I guess it wasn't you who had his slave eating her dinner on all fours off the floor at the Olive Garden on Wishire Blvd. last Thursday night?

Now mind you, it wasn't that part that freaked out the 'nillas; this is California, afterall; it was the piss play afterward that probably went over the top.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/25/2009 5:09:01 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
The last few entries are the part of the debate that a lot of people chose to avoid.

There's really nothing that happens between My boy and I that would be any different than what any other two people who had affection for each other would be displayed.  Yes, I have a leash for him, but I use it at BDSM venues or events.  I can promise you that I would pass the "Grandma" test if I believe Myself to be amongst a mix of kinky and non kinky folks.  For things like humiliation scenes and what have you, I do My homework. 

What I won't do is make Myself less of a person than anyone else out there. 


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/25/2009 6:21:16 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
Hey Sherlock, the comment was about your comment. Since you seem to be the one that feels people are pushing things into the public eye, then try clarifying what you mean. I understand that your communication and comprehension skills are often lacking in the topics on this forum, but give it a try.

As far as the elephant, it is the fact that even "nilla" folks have different styles of relationships that may need to be explained to kids, and endured by those with delicate sensibilities.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
So what "great big fucking elephant" of an "interaction" that's of a non-sexual nature do you and your slave what to pull out of the "closet" in public?  Can you not hold-hands... have her serve you... remain silent... avoid eye contact... sit/stand beside/behine you... or whatever that an otherwise termed 'nilla couple would do in public???  What exactly has left you and yours feeling so repressed in public for having left said "great big fucking elephant" in the "closet"???


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/25/2009 6:27:48 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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Again LadyPact, you and I are in agreement. This entire topic started because someone said to a clerk that they needed to ask permission before buying something. I will go one further, my slave has told servers and sales people "you will need to ask my Master", in certain situations. Yeah we get the odd look, but they address me, I deal with things without even acknowledging their odd looks, and within moments they are usually doing as they would with anyone else. It is not about play in public, and a power exchange relationship is not really a kink, as I see it. It is about a dynamic between two people, and is just as valid as a marriage, engagement, dating, or friendship. I will not act differently just because of societal pressure, when the actions are not lude or profane. The last part is really what it comes down to.

Next time you are in Atlanta, I say we go walking your boy and my girl on a leash through Little Five Points, and browse the shops there ;).


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The last few entries are the part of the debate that a lot of people chose to avoid.

There's really nothing that happens between My boy and I that would be any different than what any other two people who had affection for each other would be displayed.  Yes, I have a leash for him, but I use it at BDSM venues or events.  I can promise you that I would pass the "Grandma" test if I believe Myself to be amongst a mix of kinky and non kinky folks.  For things like humiliation scenes and what have you, I do My homework. 

What I won't do is make Myself less of a person than anyone else out there. 



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/25/2009 6:40:58 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
Pretty much Orion. My marriage to my first husband was "vanilla" and I still called him Daddy and he was very dominant and I used to order his food in restaurants, call him Daddy in public always because it was just what I called him, he was always very much obviously the one in charge, and prior to that, I was way into punk rock, I wore collars and leashes for fucking fashion statements, big deal. The day I live my life for the unwashed masses, I quit living my life according to me. That isn't going to happen. I am more offended by seeing people out and about in places dressed like they are going to the dump for god's sake. Or dragging their children into high end restaurants, but that is another thread.    

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
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(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/25/2009 8:22:52 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
So you have no answer and are, yet again, just running your mouth.  I asked you a SIMPLE QUESTION based on what YOU HAD WRITTEN, and you come up limp/flaccid as usual.  Thanks for playing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Hey Sherlock, the comment was about your comment. Since you seem to be the one that feels people are pushing things into the public eye, then try clarifying what you mean. I understand that your communication and comprehension skills are often lacking in the topics on this forum, but give it a try.

As far as the elephant, it is the fact that even "nilla" folks have different styles of relationships that may need to be explained to kids, and endured by those with delicate sensibilities.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
So what "great big fucking elephant" of an "interaction" that's of a non-sexual nature do you and your slave what to pull out of the "closet" in public?  Can you not hold-hands... have her serve you... remain silent... avoid eye contact... sit/stand beside/behine you... or whatever that an otherwise termed 'nilla couple would do in public???  What exactly has left you and yours feeling so repressed in public for having left said "great big fucking elephant" in the "closet"???



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the n... - 11/25/2009 8:45:17 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I will go one further, my slave has told servers and sales people "you will need to ask my Master", in certain situations. Yeah we get the odd look...



Shows exactly how INSECURE YOU ARE that you need this type of display to think yourself a man.  Nah... not enough that your slave simply say, "Let me ask..."  Nooooooo... you need the "Master" bit in there to feed your fragile ego.  Bet it never occurred to you, but yanno... even 'nilla couples say things like, "Let me check" without having to include, "... with my Husband/Wife".  A shocker to you, I'm sure... but the 'nilla folk you seem to resent so much behave with CLASS, where you don't.  The type of INSECURE display you seem to need is quite sad, really.  May also come as a complete shock to you, but pssst... you seem to have forgotten that the cornerstone to this dynamic is CONSENT!!!  And guess what, Mr. Insecurity, those that you're involving in your dynamic HAVE NOT GIVEN THEIR CONSENT TO BE PART OF YOUR DYNAMIC;  which not only makes you RUDE, but quite pathetic.

quote:


It is not about play in public, and a power exchange relationship is not really a kink, as I see it. It is about a dynamic between two people...



Oh really... just TWO people, huh?  Well, then maybe YOU should think about NOT including others in your dynamic without their consent, as you've shown you've done?!!  A little less insecurity about needing to show the world what a "man" you are, and a little more CLASS would do just fine.





_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 100
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