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Gentlemen,

Most societies encourage men to be alphas, to be decisive, in charge, strong, tough.  Men are scorned to some degree when they are not.  I am wondering how you all handle the difference between what is inside you and what society presses upon you, not merely the cognitive dissonance, but the actual physical manifestations of submission.  Taking the tie off and then kneeling.  How does that change take place?  Is there a change?  What about the interactions you have in the real world.  Sure men hold the door for a woman, but what about other things?  How does it work for you?

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ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

I think your original premise in your post makes an assumption that being submissive is somehow an act of weakness.  I do not see it that way in the slightest - in fact, I see it as an act of strength.  In that act of kneeling, I am choosing a path and expressing a strength in my character - a willingness to submit to another, do for them, serve them, obey them.  I see their choice as a strength of character too - to accept my submission, my service, and agree to guide my path as my Dominant. 

I experience very little "shift" from my day to day self to my submissive self as they are very close.  I am not submissive to all, just Her.  And so my interactions with Her always have that D/s dynamic as the underlying foundation.

As for my manner to the rest of the world, it is softer than perhaps most males would be.  I am not certain if that is the "submission" or "femininity" that I feel in my person as a whole, or something else entirely. 

Hope that helps your understanding!  [:)]

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ORIGINAL: Wickad

This entire thread has lead me to wonder ... Why is it that a man must make himself LESS (ie: unmanly, doormat like, etc) in order to see me (a Dominant woman) as MORE (assertive, in charge, Dominant)?

Frankly, I don't think he does. And neither do I think I need to be elevated (as some would argue) in order to Dominate a man.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: Wickad

This entire thread has lead me to wonder ... Why is it that a man must make himself LESS (ie: unmanly, doormat like, etc) in order to see me (a Dominant woman) as MORE (assertive, in charge, Dominant)?

Frankly, I don't think he does. And neither do I think I need to be elevated (as some would argue) in order to Dominate a man.

I think you are making a big assumption as to how submissive men feel. I dont have to feel less manly, nor elevate a woman to a higher level in order to submit. I view any potential partner as an equal, just as i do in a vanilla relationship. I, and I suspect many of the other regular males who post here, dont change personalitywise, depending on what company I am in. With some people I feel i can be more open, with others, less so. None of this has any bearing on how I interact with my partner.

I took from Sunshines OP, that she was alluding more to how we ( submissive men ) cope with how society view us. I also dont think we have problems that are much different from any copule, in a relationship seen as unusual. IE, large age difference, inter race/faith, or homosexual. It is society that puts the pressure on people but thankfully society is evolving into something a bit more tolerant.

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ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

PeonForHer,

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ElanSubdued:
All but the apex (level 0) are subordinate.

PeonForHer:
Maybe not so.  A certain, strange sort of paradox, holds.  Kings sometimes describe themselves as the servants of the nation.  Prime Ministers here in the UK speak of 'servants of the nation'.  Hell, even Jesus Christ spoke of himself as 'the Son of Man'.  In a sense, the higher you go, the more you recognise something 'larger than yourself' and the more you submit to it.  Some at the apex even resent the extent to which they submit.  Many a time I've heard celebrities say that they feel 'owned' by their fans and the public in general.  Unlike us mere 'ordinary people' they're bound, in a myriad of ways, to act the way it's demanded that they act.

Perhaps you missed this aspect of my post: "thinking from a shareholder perspective, the entire management team is subordinate. :-)"

I'm not in disagreement with you Peon.  Not at all. :-)

Elan.

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ORIGINAL: Wickad
Specifically this is that men are MORE, women are LESS.

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Why is it that a man must make himself LESS (ie: unmanly, doormat like, etc) in order to see me (a Dominant woman) as MORE (assertive, in charge, Dominant)?

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PS - I would like to also add that this dissonance does not seem to be a problem in the M/f dynamic.

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undergroundsea:
Knowing that my submission is voluntary keeps me from feeling dissonance with respect to this point within the relationship--I myself do not feel weak for it. However, there is a different type of dissonance with respect to how a given woman might feel about male submission.

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I know the smarter one's (D or s) are quite clear that a submissive, male or female, doesn't need to "lower" themselves to be seen as adequate in the eyes of their dominant. And like the above....one differs with different people...the sub I was with one woman is not at all the sub I was with another.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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I know the smarter one's (D or s) are quite clear that a submissive, male or female, doesn't need to "lower" themselves to be seen as adequate in the eyes of their dominant. And like the above....one differs with different people...the sub I was with one woman is not at all the sub I was with another.

Exactly! I consider boys need to be the best they can be so that they make their Lady proud. I've held every single boy that I've had in the highest of esteem.

- LA

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Unrelated to your question, I think you did a good job of shepherding this thread without going know-it-all pedantic or disillusioned-snarky. (Open minded curiosity is generally a good thing.)