Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (Full Version)

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AttendToYou -> Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/8/2009 7:03:55 PM)

It seems when I meet a lot of dommes online and we start talking, many of them want me to instantly give control of my orgasms to them. This is before even meeting them or even talking on the phone. Call me crazy, but I envision that to be something a couple works toward, kind of like the way collaring is a process, not something immediate, in many relationships.

I realize there is something primal about a woman stepping in and establishing that control from the onset, but there is also something to be said about the hunt.

I know that chastity is a way to remind the male that his orgasms are not the most central element in the world, but also for some males I think that is not a realization that happens overnight. Maybe many of the so-called "wankers" on here are merely men who are in discovery of their submissive side who can't--for whatever reason--make a sudden jump.



Lockit -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/8/2009 7:10:19 PM)

I wouldn't call a man who can't jump into a woman/man controlling their orgasms... a troll. A troll jumps at any chance with just about anyone to play kinky games of some sort.

We do not think all men are trolls. I really hope you don't think that. Trolls are typically selfish and rude and will try to get someone interested in them only for their own pleasure and think nothing of the people they contact.

A new guy exploring who is not rude and doesn't treat women like play toys there for his pleasure is simply a new guy exploring new area's of his life. There is nothing wrong with that.



AttendToYou -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/8/2009 7:16:11 PM)

I'm mostly just surprised how many see orgasm control as something that happens practically before you even meet or talk on the phone. Allowing a woman to deny me is a true gift to her and my recognition of her dominance. It is not an insult that I don't feel ready to do that at the beginning until I've gotten to know her better.



sweetsub1957 -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/8/2009 7:32:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AttendToYou

It seems when I meet a lot of dommes online and we start talking, many of them want me to instantly give control of my orgasms to them.



quote:

ORIGINAL: AttendToYou

Maybe many of the so-called "wankers" on here are merely men who are in discovery of their submissive side who can't--for whatever reason--make a sudden jump.



Believe me, there are male Doms Who want immediate control & Who are "wankers" too.  lol  But, I agree that should be "something a couple works toward."



Lockit -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/8/2009 7:49:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AttendToYou

I'm mostly just surprised how many see orgasm control as something that happens practically before you even meet or talk on the phone. Allowing a woman to deny me is a true gift to her and my recognition of her dominance. It is not an insult that I don't feel ready to do that at the beginning until I've gotten to know her better.


Attendtoyou... there are many who insist on things before they should, on every side of things around here and in life in general. Don't let them ruin your exploration... consider they are not right for you and move on. Not every dominant is like that and those that are, just simply aren't worth wasting yourself on. That means your time thinking about it too much. Trust me... we are not all into instant control of someone we do not know.

Focus on those that will want to get to know you and go from there. Don't get discouraged. I know it is easy to do, but... again... focus on the good people out there. They are there.



AttendToYou -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/8/2009 8:04:33 PM)

Thank you Lockit, your words are always so soothing and smart.



LadyPact -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/8/2009 8:04:39 PM)

One thing I might suggest to you, OP, is that not all of these folks that you are dealing with are really Dominant women at all.  There are a number of folks who will create a female profile or screen name specifically to dupe others into cyber sex or whatever it is that turns their own crank.

I think you'll find that a number of Dommes really aren't interested in the orgasms of those who we're not involved with, and that type of involvement takes time.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/8/2009 8:10:40 PM)

If someone grinds your gears, or just doesn't MATCH, move on. You do not owe anything to a stranger on the internet, not even courtesy, though of course I prefer when folks ladle that out freely!



Lockit -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/8/2009 8:11:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AttendToYou

Thank you Lockit, your words are always so soothing and smart.



Well... not always soothing and smart... but I try once in a while... you are welcome and thank you.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/9/2009 2:17:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AttendToYou

It seems when I meet a lot of dommes online and we start talking, many of them want me to instantly give control of my orgasms to them. This is before even meeting them or even talking on the phone. Call me crazy, but I envision that to be something a couple works toward, kind of like the way collaring is a process, not something immediate, in many relationships.

I realize there is something primal about a woman stepping in and establishing that control from the onset, but there is also something to be said about the hunt.


You are right, there is something very primal about it. It is mental, physical, emotional. Once I've established a connection with a boy, and *only* at that moment, orgasm control is one of the first things that I request. I feel that is sets a good tone and baseline for the interactions to come.

This is also something for me that requires a lot of communication. I don't just decide to deny an orgasm on a whim. The state of mind of my boy will play a lot on this. And when I impose orgasm denial for a few days, there is always a method to my madness.

But I'll reiterate that this only happens once I've established a true connection and I know that the boy in question is ready for this step.

- LA



BoiJen -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/9/2009 7:13:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AttendToYou
Allowing a woman to deny me is a true gift to her and my recognition of her dominance.


Now this, if you were referring to a Woman you were personally pursuing, sounds like entitlement to me. Like you feel entitled to your own orgasm when approaching a Dominant Woman. Which, if they so choose, isn't the case. And if your only recognition of her dominance is in your orgasm, then it should be the first thing to go.

I get what you're trying to say...your delivery just seems a bit rough and as still holds the traditional male entitlement issues around sex in it.

boi

Property of MsKitty



GYPSYMAMBO -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/9/2009 7:21:46 AM)

OP:
 
I find that MANY I talk to want to tell immediately how their appendage is leaking..hard..they want to "jerk "for me etc..so I CONTROL by saying no and not messaging back
becuz I am absolutely not interested..
AND if interested it STILL often comes up(pardon the pun)..as "but your words do this to me".."I am so excited"..etc SO again at times what appears to be control is denying them WHAT THEY WANT..
I am not saying that is you..just another perspective..
Twice I HAVE gotten a man's mind off his cock on here..and was blessed with two great subs..
but I first had to "control"..meaning make him forget long enough to talk about what this is REALLY about...(to me)
 
again another perspective
 
GM



thishereboi -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/9/2009 7:53:02 AM)

I wouldn't give control of anything to a women I hadn't actually met and developed some kind of a relationship with first. I am not sure what she would get out of it, but then again orgasm control doesn't see to be as big an issue between lesbians. 



undergroundsea -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/9/2009 9:56:47 AM)

quote:

I envision that to be something a couple works toward, kind of like the way collaring is a process, not something immediate, in many relationships.


I agree. The OP leaves room for interpretation about how far has the conversation moved, and how quickly such a demand is made. I direct my comments at when an assumption of control is made while the mutual interest is still being gauged.

I also agree that as this conversation progresses, each person might engage in acts of dominance and submission. I agree that this progression ramps over time--it is not a step function (one moment it is zero and at the next it is at full value). I liken it to other social relationships where what one can expect from the other is a function of time and degree of relationship.

I think there is a maturity curve with respect to BDSM, just like there is with other forms of social relationships. As one moves along this curve, one betters understands what is realistic, what is socially appropriate, and the importance of the who with respect to the what. I consider the instant orgasm control to come from someone who has not moved far along the maturity curve.

What I describe applies to pursuing a relationship. Some people do approach others simply for cyber fun or a cyber hook-up. Because the objective is different, the rules for pursuing a relationship have limited applicability here.

As I think about from where such a demand might come, another idea that comes to mind is the comment frequently heard that controlling the orgasm brings submission. Controlling orgasms might be perceived as an obvious, quick way to make one malleable.

Cheers,

Sea



AAkasha -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/9/2009 10:45:59 AM)



Would other flirtatious "demands" for submission bother you? What if she ordered you to jerk off. What if she sent you her wet panties and told you to worship them. What if she described a sexual fantasy of hers in email and asked you to respond in kind - are those considered too soon also, or is it just the denial of orgasm?

The reality? If you have never talked to her on the phone and just met it's probably a guy - sorry.

But asking for orgasm denial early on? I have done that. I started doing things like that in college with guys I was just barely starting to date.  Why?  Because it's exciting. "Don't cum until I tell you to, ok?" is flirtation to me.  It sets an interesting tone.  Do I consider it a viable way to start courting a guy? No, not really.  It goes back to the other thread (great thread) about bending vs. breaking.  I don't like to set up rules that are unenforceable or rigid so early on that the ultimate end result is a failure of some kind.  Either the guy will lie, or he won't be able to comply, or he will have to say, "I failed you" early on -- no good outcome in any of those cases.

However, *discussing* the control of the boy's orgasm, flirting with the idea, giving "Smaller tests" is a method of seduction.  Making him 'earn' the next orgasm. Doing everything in my power to ensure that the next time he orgasms, his thoughts will be on me - either through denial and making him earn it, or making him do it on his knees, or even making him cum while I listen or watch or participate remotely -- those are methods to start seducing his surrender to me by taking control of his cock.  I just prefer to use a method that is more subtle than, "Hi joe, you don't know me yet, but I control your cock and orgasms now, got it?"

Akasha



undergroundsea -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/9/2009 11:25:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Would other flirtatious "demands" for submission bother you? What if she ordered you to jerk off. What if she sent you her wet panties and told you to worship them. What if she described a sexual fantasy of hers in email and asked you to respond in kind - are those considered too soon also, or is it just the denial of orgasm?


I will let the OP answer for himself but write to add another data point. For me, any one of these could indeed occur too soon. And whether it is too soon is defined not by time but by the progress of the dialog. The significance of time is that the longer a dialog has been occurring, the more likely it is to have moved further along.

Also, the magnitude of the act is relevant. Ordering someone to jerk off is smaller in magnitude (it could occur in an instant hook up) versus asking someone to not orgasm over a longer period of time. And the magnitude of what one can expect depends on the degree of dialog. What is appropriate becomes a matter of judgment based on the situation and persons involved.

Cheers,

Sea



AAkasha -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/9/2009 11:43:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Would other flirtatious "demands" for submission bother you? What if she ordered you to jerk off. What if she sent you her wet panties and told you to worship them. What if she described a sexual fantasy of hers in email and asked you to respond in kind - are those considered too soon also, or is it just the denial of orgasm?


I will let the OP answer for himself but write to add another data point. For me, any one of these could indeed occur too soon. And whether it is too soon is defined not by time but by the progress of the dialog. The significance of time is that the longer a dialog has been occurring, the more likely it is to have moved further along.

Also, the magnitude of the act is relevant. Ordering someone to jerk off is smaller in magnitude (it could occur in an instant hook up) versus asking someone to not orgasm over a longer period of time. And the magnitude of what one can expect depends on the degree of dialog. What is appropriate becomes a matter of judgment based on the situation and persons involved.

Cheers,

Sea


You are wrong about the magnitude. The point is that some men will gladly follow an immediate request from a total stranger if it makes him hard and fits his fantasies.  There are dozens of them sitting in my email box and any woman on this site knows the men I am talking about.  They are just waiting for the command that matches their fantasies and they will immediately do it and ask for more.  But if the demand does not match their fantasy they won't comply. 

How many women here have the unsolicited email, "Awaiting your command!" and if they write back, "Ok send me a 500 word essay on the planet Mars" they won't hear anything, if they write back, "Are you ready to jerk off and eat your cum?" the half that have that fantasy will say 'oh god yes!' and the rest will say no. Just keep rotating the fantasies.  Some men are just waiting for the command that matches their fantasy and it doesn't matter who is giving it, because in their mind, the woman giving it is the fantasy.  We (the femdom) are interchangeable.

Akasha



undergroundsea -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/9/2009 12:00:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
You are wrong about the magnitude. The point is that some men will gladly follow an immediate request from a total stranger if it makes him hard and fits his fantasies. 


I am not wrong about the magnitude.

That the magnitude of what one can expect is related to the degree of the relationship applies to social relationships in general.

How likely I am to respond to an immediate request from a total stranger depends on how I feel about the total stranger and the magnitude of the task. The less I feel interested in the total stranger, the smaller the threshhold of magnitude of tasks to which I will respond.

Asking someone to write a paragraph about Mars is more likely to have a response than to ask for a 500 word essay because the former is smaller in magnitude. Asking someone with whom one has just begun to IM to wait for five minutes and not move while one steps away is small in magnitude. Asking someone to wait for an hour is larger in magnitude. I might be ok with the first in most cases whereas not ok with the second unless the interest and dialog merits it. Asking someone to do something during the course of an IM is smaller in magnitude versus something that extends across a greater duration of everyday life. Each the progression of dialog and interest, and the magnitude of a task occur in shades of grey. If a demand is made of me that is clearly out of proportion with the dialog, I am unlikely to respond and will likely wonder about judgment of the other.

It is also a matter of perspective and looking at the fundamentals of human behavior. Asking someone to do something that adds to their happiness (even if it is masochistic happiness) is smaller in magnitude (and requires less) and asking someone to do something that lessens their happiness is larger in magnitude (and requires more).

Cheers,

Sea



Lockit -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/9/2009 12:31:23 PM)

Yes, it does take longer to write five hundred words on Mar's than it takes to beat off... for most people. lol But then, the guy that does actually try to please me in a request such as a bit of writing on a certain topic... impresses me much more than the guy willing to spend a few moments, beating off for me. It's all about intent and motivation... theirs and mine. lol



undergroundsea -> RE: Zero to Orgasm Denial in 10 Seconds (12/9/2009 12:53:43 PM)

quote:

Yes, it does take longer to write five hundred words on Mar's than it takes to beat off... for most people. lol


With the prevalence of one-handed typing, one could even ask for both at the same time ;-)

quote:

But then, the guy that does actually try to please me in a request such as a bit of writing on a certain topic... impresses me much more than the guy willing to spend a few moments, beating off for me.


Sure, I agree with that. I will add that how much a guy will want to please you will depend on the level of interest and dialog. A five hundred page essay is still doable. Suppose we change it to a 5000 page book and I am better able to convey my point about the greyscale of magnitude and interest. Also, all other things equal, a guy with whom you have exchanged a few emails is more likely to write the 500 page essay than the one who has sent just an introductory email.

I will add that I am more likely to respond to a demand to write a 500 word essay (500 is nothing for people like Elan and I ;-) ) about Mars in a starting conversation than to jack off.

Cheers,

Sea



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