RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (Full Version)

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eyesopened -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 1:19:44 AM)

I'm one of those service to others types.

The difference, in my experience is where my focus lies.  Am I doing this for me?  Am I doing this for Him?

A little shift in focus.  If I am asking myself "What can I do (for Him)?"  my focus is on me.  If I am thinking "What does He need?"  my focus is on Him.



lally2 -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 1:30:54 AM)

i think in all relationships theres an element of liking to do one job and not another. one thing feels like a chore and the other doesnt.

in a Ds or Ms relationship doing things for youre Dominant theres the caveat that its in the mindset of submission and in some instances submitting to something we loathe is what separates us from the mainstream guys on the whole. we should do it without complaining, we cant decide whether or not to do it today if today is whats been asked of us.

that aside i wonder why the every day stuff should be thought of as submission atal, doing his feet, (and funnily enough, though im a podiatrist ive never been asked to do anyones feet lol [:D]) is simply doing something for someone you care about.

i have to admit that when i find myself feeling that everything im doing for someone is me having to submit to it i have to ask myself whats wrong.

..... and that aside - what is that with decorating. every single man i have ever lived with has always left me to do the decorating!!!



hejira92 -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 4:50:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

I have been struggling within myself recently, feeling that I had failed because I struggled with some tasks I had to do.  When I discussed this with Him he explained that for him it isn't so much about how well I do everything but more that I obey him and at least make a sincere attempt.  This was a lightbulb moment for me as I had been grading myself I guess on how well (or badly) I did something when he was looking at something totally different.




As we were discussing this thread last night, this is the point that Master brought up.

The worst conflict we have ever experienced in our relationship was about a task which I felt I could not complete successfully. One time I gave up.

After much discussion and dissection of the matter, He made His point that it was the effort He was looking for, not the outcome. He had promised from the start that He would never set me up to fail, and He hadn't. I lost my focus- which should have been giving my all to whatever task He set me to. Instead I was focusing on me- my fears and my defeatism.




sunshinemiss -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 6:08:25 AM)

Hi eyes opened,
quote:

The difference, in my experience is where my focus lies.  Am I doing this for me?  Am I doing this for Him?

A little shift in focus.  If I am asking myself "What can I do (for Him)?"  my focus is on me.  If I am thinking "What does He need?"  my focus is on Him.



I get what you are saying here.  I wonder though if this would keep being your focus if he were to need things that did not make you hum... over and over and over again.  From having interacted with you in the past and read your posts, my bet is that there is a certain balance... But I do think that for the short term we can do even things we don't enjoy/don't like.

Lally - I like this point... One thing feels like a chore and the other doesn't.  No different from vanilla relationships. mmhmmm.

It's funny, I'm having a shift these days with the thing Celeste said -  The contingent that says it's not really submission unless the sub hates it.  I guess I had somehow bought into that somewhat.  Yeah, I'm feeling this shift happening that has me a little wobbly.  This thing about my needs and concerns being of equal importance within a relationship.  I'm I don't know growing up a bit maybe?    I'm experiencing this ... I don't even know what it is... where I'm amazingly visible and heard and valued.  My opinions matter, my perspective is considered, my fears are acknowledged and handled, my wants are considered, and I feel comfortable putting them out there.  And because I am visible, heard and valued, I crave the submitting, the doing, the giving.  It doesn't feel like "twue" submission though somehow... it's like... *puzzled girl here*  I get so much from it and my mind says it shouldn't feel this good. 
Folks, you all are just glorious in your way of speaking, your method of getting things across.  Thank you for making me think.  But y'all gotta hook me up with a cup of coffee so I'm equipped to handle these thoughts! [:)]

best,
sunshine



hejira92 -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 6:29:33 AM)


quote:

It doesn't feel like "twue" submission though somehow... it's like... *puzzled girl here*  I get so much from it and my mind says it shouldn't feel this good. 



This is what it feels like when it "fits". Amazing, huh? Two people fulfilling each other's needs- kinky and non.

This is what I experience daily. I am more considered, more loved, more valued than I have ever known. I cannot give Him enough. I cannot serve Him enough (in whatever capacity) to ever equal what I get from Him.

I tell Him how lucky I am every day. His response is always, "Yes, WE are."

You deserve all this happiness and more.



dualityinmotion -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 6:50:56 AM)

I tend to be a service-oriented person and submissive in nature, and only am slave to One. My desire to help/do for Him is very strong, but there are times when I'm asked to do something I want to shrink from...possibly out of fear of failure... and I have to realize it's my own ego at play, and refocus on his needs and wants. I also have found that sharing my fear/doubt/struggle with him verbally (with respect) helps Him nurture the maturing slave in me better.

Mercnbeth's analogy to the car ride feels so right. As a slave, I've surrendered all...so the decisions are His. I don't know whether I could continue serving if everything that was asked of me seemed impossible or "too hard" for some reason or my needs for love, etc., were not met. Mercifully, that situation has not arisen. i would suppose that would not be the right Master for me.

So much of what has been said above rings so true for me. Thank you, everyone.

Sunshinemiss, thank you for starting this thread. It could not have come at better time for this slave.



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 7:35:47 AM)

Hi Sunny,

I have a problem with the idea that enjoying doing certain things for an M-type is somehow less of a service than not enjoying others. That somehow it's not true service unless it's hard and the s-type grumbles to herself even as she does it.

In the past, when I have served a man, I felt no difference in the level of submission I felt towards him no matter what I was doing, because either way I was still serving his needs. Enjoying what I was doing made it easier to do what I'd been told to do, but it didn't change how I felt in terms of submission. I just muttered to myself less lol.

One interesting difference was that although I hate housework, somehow it became enjoyable doing it for him....I still can't work that one out lol. So does the fact that something I hate became something I enjoyed mean that it wasn't serving his needs?

Zeph



sweetsub1957 -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 7:46:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

A little shift in focus.  If I am asking myself "What can I do (for Him)?"  my focus is on me.  If I am thinking "What does He need?"  my focus is on Him.


Perfectly said.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 8:00:50 AM)

There is NO wrong answer; as much as that is supposed to be the cornerstone to acceptance to other peoples relationship dynamic, obviously by the tone of many comments, it isn't reality.

To us, whatever works and keeps people together and happy is their personal right answer.

Eyes, I want to use your working right answer, not to criticize it, but to use it to give a different perspective.
quote:

The difference, in my experience is where my focus lies. Am I doing this for me? Am I doing this for Him?

A little shift in focus. If I am asking myself "What can I do (for Him)?" my focus is on me. If I am thinking "What does He need?" my focus is on Him.

Christians champion a decision making process called WWJD (What would Jesus Do?) and then do whatever that rationalization process dictates. The problem is, they really don't know because Jesus didn't document every answer. Instead of doing 'what Jesus would do' many times they end up doing what they THINK Jesus would do - which usually ends up, not coincidently, exactly what they wanted to do in the first place.

A decision based upon projected decision is a great inclusion technique but it requires a clearer, confident, although disconnected to self, goal. In our case, I don't consider a decision based about how it will impact beth, or whether it serves her service. I'm confident that her service doesn't involve an ongoing WWMD sub-program going through her head. (I'd seriously pity her if had to have my thoughts going through her head!)

Both of us however have a WWM&bD sub-program always running. We both enjoy service to that Master. There are key things that serve that goal which as individuals do not get served without it; beth's deep masochistic need, my similarly deep need to have an outlet for my sadism.

'Merc & beth' IS another entity, existing as the personification of an amazing commingling of complimentary fetishes, fantasies, and basic desires which, until we met each other, neither of us thought possible.

Me as the 'sadist' saying "OKAY GREAT! - Bend over!" to beth as the masochistic persona behind the masochist asking "Please spank me!"; is not serving her anymore than beth's asking serves her need to be in service. It serves 'Merc & beth'; the act in the many forms it takes on, fulfills it. beth doesn't vocalize or even physically 'ask'. she is, she walks by, her ass 'asks' for me to spank it - I comply! I comply because I want to, love to, and can and do; anyplace, anytime with anything that happens to be handy. I only need to have WWM&bD in mind, submitting and serving the pragmatic answer that thought process generates.

Not better, definitely not best, and not even a path to long term or a forever relationship. It's worked for almost 7 years so far - and we don't pretend to know how long forever is - our ongoing lives allow for doubt. Only when one of us dies will our little happy representation have lasted 'forever'. Meanwhile - we're having a blast, both of us 'slaves' in service to a very demanding 'Merc & beth' Master, loving each other, loving life, and having more FUN than should be legal in the process.



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 10:23:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

I hate, absolutely hate doing laundry. It is one of those unending evils... But....I like doing his laundry.



That's because you're secretly sniffing his underwear... admit it, SNARF!!! [;)]


Snarf:
Someone who makes a practice of smelling soiled underwear
 
 



DesFIP -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 2:08:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

Something I keep having to be reminded about is to let go of my attachment to outcomes as it can interfere with my service to Him and my submission.  So instead of me focusing on how I wish he would ask me to do something I am good at so that he can appreciate my skills as I think that would please him more I have to remind myself that my obeying him is what is important and that he doesn't necessarily judge me on how well a task is done so much as in my willingness to do it (if that makes sense).



The problem with this is that if you aren't good at the task, and nobody is teaching you how to do it successfully, then if he really needs this done at the end the job is still undone and there are plenty of other undone jobs which you could have accomplished in the time you spent fruitlessly trying to do something you can't do. And at the end of the day he will still need to spend his time getting the job done.

Now if the job is make work, busy work, designed solely to watch you suffer, and not anything that actually needs doing, then he's getting off on your suffering, which makes it sadism and not dominance. If you are in a relationship where s & m is included, then you accept that you will be used in a sadistic manner, if your relationship includes emotional s & m. But this ought to be made clear in the beginning negotiations.

As our relationship does not include s& m, then him telling me that he enjoys watching me try unsuccessfully would not be taken well, because that kind of thing was ruled out in the beginning. If I can't do it, I have no knowledge or lack skills or strength, I wouldn't even try. Because that's setting me up to fail and it means he didn't really need it done. Both of which I dislike.



hejira92 -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 5:24:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


'Merc & beth' IS another entity, existing as the personification of an amazing commingling of complimentary fetishes, fantasies, and basic desires which, until we met each other, neither of us thought possible.




I am so with you on this concept. Master sums it up by telling me, "There is no you and me, little girl. There is only us."



sublizzie -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 6:59:50 PM)

I *love* cooking and I'm good at it. Why shouldn't a Dominant make use of a skill that I enjoy to help them in some way? Why should the fact that I enjoy it make it any less submissive when I do it? If I'm doing it for *them* rather than for *me*, in my mind, that makes it submission.



sweetsub1957 -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 8:04:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I am not a domestic person. I absolutely hate cooking, cleaning and all that goes along those lines but I do them because well...someone's gotta do it and it's never gonna get done otherwise.


I must be crazy.  So many people say this, but I love doing all that stuff, especially cooking, doing the dishes, vacuuming, and laundry. 



GYPSYMAMBO -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 8:37:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

'Merc & beth' IS another entity, existing as the personification of an amazing commingling of complimentary fetishes, fantasies, and basic desires which, until we met each other, neither of us thought possible. 
 
'Merc & beth' Master, loving each other, loving life, and having more FUN than should be legal in the process.


[:D]Damn!! you guys make me SMILE...[:)]
 
 
GM



Hierodule -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 8:52:30 PM)

I like you two! and great post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
'Merc & beth' IS another entity, existing as the personification of an amazing commingling of complimentary fetishes, fantasies, and basic desires which, until we met each other, neither of us thought possible.

Meanwhile - we're having a blast, both of us 'slaves' in service to a very demanding 'Merc & beth' Master, loving each other, loving life, and having more FUN than should be legal in the process.



chellekitty -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/13/2009 9:01:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

I'm one of those service to others types.

The difference, in my experience is where my focus lies.  Am I doing this for me?  Am I doing this for Him?

A little shift in focus.  If I am asking myself "What can I do (for Him)?"  my focus is on me.  If I am thinking "What does He need?"  my focus is on Him.


i have quallified myself as a service-oriented submissive in the past and now that i think about it, this definition fits in perfectly for me....my focus is almost always What-does-the-other-person/group/organization/whatever-need? Not what am I good at doing...sometimes what am i capable of doing...not what would i like to do...but do they need done and would they let me do it...i have had to learn to rein it in because of people that have taken advantage of my nature...but now, even being single, i can get that need to serve met without being trampled on...

ETA: my signature quote has been that for months now...



sunshinemiss -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/14/2009 3:38:48 AM)

Thread hijack - hey I started it, so why not!

Chelle - It's great to see you again!  And you look happy!

best,
sunshine



eyesopened -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/14/2009 4:31:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Hi eyes opened,
quote:

The difference, in my experience is where my focus lies.  Am I doing this for me?  Am I doing this for Him?

A little shift in focus.  If I am asking myself "What can I do (for Him)?"  my focus is on me.  If I am thinking "What does He need?"  my focus is on Him.



I get what you are saying here.  I wonder though if this would keep being your focus if he were to need things that did not make you hum... over and over and over again.  From having interacted with you in the past and read your posts, my bet is that there is a certain balance... But I do think that for the short term we can do even things we don't enjoy/don't like.

Lally - I like this point... One thing feels like a chore and the other doesn't.  No different from vanilla relationships. mmhmmm.


Without going into the details of our relationship, there are a few things in the kink area that do not make me hum, that I do not care for, that He wants over and over and over again.  It's my focus on Him that is important in that area.  It's something He needs.  The pleasure it gives Him is the thing that gives me a feel-good feeling, not the activity itself.  It's not something left to my own desires, I would ever ask for.  Funny though.... knowing how much it pleases Him, I find myself desiring the undesirable just to experience His pleasure.  The paradox of consentual slavery!

And on the domestic side of things... It's the trash.  I grew up with the taking out of the trash considered "man's work" and as soon as my son was grown enough to heft the bags it became his job.  Master does not take out the trash.  I dislike it and what's worse is we live in a condo community that requires we drive our trash to the community dumpster/compactor, I have to take the heavy bag to the car, hoist it into the trunk, drive it to the dumpster, hoist it out of the trunk, up 6 steps and over a railing only 3 feet shorter than myself.    BUT  His way of thinking is one of the cool things about owning a slave is you don't have to take out the garbage.  There have been times when the trash bag is particularly heavy that I talk to myself while struggeling with the bag... "It's a damn good thing Master has a slave to do this... this bag is fuckin heavy!" 



petitbateau -> RE: Service - enjoyment versus submission (12/14/2009 2:24:23 PM)

there is a very interesting trick working in my mind when I'm feeling I am dominated and I'm put in the right place... I try to investigate it but it eludes any logical explanation so far.
the trick is simple and basic in his sillines: I enjoy whatever I am doing for I'm doing it for my Master.
i found myself a couple of times, naked somewhere on the floor or in the kitchen, cleaning this or that... and I asked myself always "why am I doing this? and more of all why I enjoy it even if I hate doing these things for myself?"
seems to me that the connection between my pleasure and the act I'm doing, is simple the fact I am following an order, fulfilling a desire, completing a task.
I can't help myself in thinking that is quite funny and amusing how just a simple request or order becomes a source of joy for me... merely simply I enjoy being an instrument of pleasure, any kind of it looks like.
What puzzles my mind is also how someone could like me cleaning his stuff... but that's another topic I guess ehehe
:p



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