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internet, CM and self expression - 12/12/2009 2:26:06 PM

lally2

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as a sub type personality, for the whole of my life i guess i have been a cammellion. i respond to a person in a way most comfortable for them. so much so, i realised that for most of my life the person i am or was rarely had the chance to grow and develop fully. in a way i was stepping backwards, sideways, to fit the people i was with. i rarely expressed myself fully, as a child i had a stammer and was incredibly shy as a grown woman i just wanted to make people feel comfortable with me and that always resulted in me being what they were most comfortable with. i learnt to read people well, yes, but I as a person did not develop fully as a result

since learning to express myself on the internet to people, learning about myself through amazing people like you guys on here, who have taught me so much, i realise that i have grown more in these past years and learnt more about how to be me. the internet has given me the space to fully express myself.

im wondering if other subs have found this.

here we can express ourselves openly and freely without fear of offending or pushing ourselves forward too much, we can open up our thoughts and beliefs and feelings and in doing so we actually develop a stronger sense of self and self appreciation.

if our tendency with others, face to face is to not project ourselves but let the people who we are with take the floor our own development of thoughts, opinions, our own voice and our ability to use it without fear of taking center stage crimps our own development as people. if we do not hear our own voice, hear our own thoughts and opinions out loud and have them responded to then they remain 'immature', untested and therefore undervalued (by ourselves), psychologically we remain inhibited by our tendency to hold back on ourselves in order to give way to everyone elses thoughts, opinions and feelings.

i hear my thoughts, opinions and feelings clearly now, theyre mine, i earned them, ive worked for them, they might not be to everyones taste and they might not fit neatly anywhere but the internet and CM have given me the opportunity to 'come out' as me.

not sure if ive made sense atal, but there it is.

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/12/2009 5:17:03 PM

Lucienne

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It does make sense. And I think it's pretty cool that you've had such a positive and constructive experience

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/12/2009 6:50:50 PM

DesFIP

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My wish for you is to find such acceptance, such unconditional love inside of a relationship as well.

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/13/2009 4:52:28 AM

lally2

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thanks guys -

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/13/2009 10:14:03 AM

sunshinemiss

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Hi lally,

I have a similar experience. I have also tried to mold myself to others. It's only been in rare instances when I felt totally safe to express myself that I would express anything beyond the "party line" - that is anything that would offend people. (The only real instance I can think of is when I was off my thyroid medication and I had no control over my emotions. That was pretty dang ugly). Now I find myself on more and more occasions expressing what I really think, and yes, CM has had a lot to do with it.

There is something (for me) that is about having faith in the people around me and their acceptance of even what I would consider the ugliest parts of me. I've always been so diplomatic, that it has been hard for me to speak my mind and realize that other people's baggage is theirs and I don't have to handle any of it. (Sunshine the non-baggage handler. heh.) Here on these threads, I've met at least 3 dozen people. They are very much real to me, and they are exceedingly honest in who they are. I can hear their voices when they post, the inflection, the tone. And I know that they are what they appear. Because of all this acceptance (for me by people who have met me and love me just as I am), I am better able to express hard stuff without being diplomatic. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I"ve "told someone off" in a confrontation, take no prisoners way. And that is pretty powerful. Expecting others to be accountable is pretty powerful. Interestingly, it is one of the things I love most about the Gorean threads - they are biggggggggg believers in personal accountability and calling people on their stuff.

I started realizing all this stuff - the need to more authentically express myself - withough sugar coating that is - came when I started talking about "graying my vibrance" on a thread ages ago. It was brought to my attention that I wanted other people to do that. Whoa. We don't have to be sweet. That was a whole new revelation to me. Also for me, it has helped me lose my own victimhood - I don't open myself up to attack. If I am attacked, it's the other person's stuff.

*I think I may be getting off base from your topic... sorry* I think that my process of unlearning diplomacy and being accepted for it here on these fora have been amazing and contributed to tremendous growth for me. I'm glad to see it has for you as well!

*I gave you a link to the thread from about a year and a half ago. It's got a number of really good points from folks. Thought you might enjoy it.

Blessings to you , lally,
sunshine

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/13/2009 11:32:47 AM

dreamerdreaming

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I'm happy for you!

I was slave back in the dark ages, when there was no internet. Wish I'd had the benefit of it.

ENJOY!

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/13/2009 11:41:56 AM

LadyPact

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As someone who has watched a great deal of growth in you through these boards, I am very glad that you are recognizing that within yourself. I'm very proud of you.

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/13/2009 3:28:13 PM

lally2

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hey sunshine,

thanks for the thread link, i read it all through and then found that id posted on there, right at the end - that was wierd, (i was lally3 then.)

i even mentioned my mother. which is doubly weird, because i have so moved on from all of that now - and all in such a comparitively short period of time. goes to show i spose that its all inside us 'hanging back' guys, - ready to flood out

to go to youre thread you talk about dumming down with doms - do you still do that? -

for ages, since puberty really, when men began thrusting that thing in their trousers at me (sorry guys) i lost respect for them. it seemed to me that the thing in their trousers pointed the way and they just followed. the 'thing' had an agenda and everything had to attend to the agenda - thats when i lost respect for men. but i look back and realise that they werent men, they were adolescent, hormonal kids.

part of this 'voice' thing on here is actually getting the chance to talk to men and get to know them long before the 'thing in their trousers' gets a look in. its opened up a whole new perspective on how to relate to men. (sorry guys, im talking about you like youre not there reading this, but this is girl talk

) and yes, the dumming down has stopped.

allowing myself to be me - though sometimes i still do take a deep breath and pause before i say something and sometimes i still go back and delete what i said and soften it, but on the whole they get the full-on me now and if that isnt to their liking then thats no loss to me.

what ive found is that im drawing in men who want a woman with a mind and an opinion, which puts a bit of pressure on to me. but my last two Masters always listened to me like what i had to say was important and valuable to them and that is the key too. what you say about friends here is so true. there is a huge generosity amongst the people in this lifestyle.

hugs xx

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/13/2009 3:30:15 PM

lally2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

As someone who has watched a great deal of growth in you through these boards, I am very glad that you are recognizing that within yourself. I'm very proud of you.

thank you LP - i dont know you and im sure ill never meet you but youre opinion of me has always been important to me. i guess i respect you hugely and so you saying that means alot to me. thank you. xx

< Message edited by lally2 -- 12/13/2009 3:51:36 PM >

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So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/13/2009 3:54:02 PM

sunshinemiss

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Hi lally,
Do I still dumb it down? Hmmm... well let's say I hold my tongue sometimes. There are people who just aren't smart enough for me. That's the reality. If I can run rings around them, I will. But I generally think most people have expertise in something that I can learn from - even if it is how to not be an asshat. One of the great things about teaching English is that there are these amazingly brilliant people I teach - doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, etc. who sound like children because their communication ability in English is poor. However, they are still brilliant.

But, no I don't dumb things down anymore. Any man who is with me better be pretty dang smart. I don't want to be 8 steps ahead of him! And I am absolutely of the belief in a number of different kinds of intelligence. I don't necessarily have to have philosophical discussions with someone to respect their ability to catch more lobsters than anyone else. But if they CAN"T have a philosophical discussion with me (or won't), then we won't be a good fit. By the same token, I can be respectful without giving up my fifty cent words. *One of the best compliments I got was that crazy black lion dude calling me on my high faluting writing and making fun of how intellectual it was. And I was just talking off the top of my head. That made me laugh.

I will tell you, though, that old habits are hard to break. I am still reticent about saying my peace. But I have wonderful friends and Aunt Fab who encourage me to speak authentically even when it's hard. I'm reminded of a saying from a 12 step program I've attended - "say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean." That totally works for me. *Despite the fact that I've told a few people off in the last 6 months. heh.

And just so you know... I'm wayyyyyyyyyyy more interesting now. I bet you are too!

hugs back atcha chica!
sunshine

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/13/2009 4:07:19 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

One of the great things about teaching English is that there are these amazingly brilliant people I teach - doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, etc. who sound like children because their communication ability in English is poor. However, they are still brilliant.

Oh dear God I wish you would teach the doctors I work for. I cringe when I see the notes they have dictated.

Zeph

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/13/2009 5:06:15 PM

lally2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Hi lally,
Do I still dumb it down? Hmmm... well let's say I hold my tongue sometimes. There are people who just aren't smart enough for me. That's the reality. If I can run rings around them, I will. But I generally think most people have expertise in something that I can learn from - even if it is how to not be an asshat. One of the great things about teaching English is that there are these amazingly brilliant people I teach - doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, etc. who sound like children because their communication ability in English is poor. However, they are still brilliant.

But, no I don't dumb things down anymore. Any man who is with me better be pretty dang smart. I don't want to be 8 steps ahead of him! And I am absolutely of the belief in a number of different kinds of intelligence. I don't necessarily have to have philosophical discussions with someone to respect their ability to catch more lobsters than anyone else. But if they CAN"T have a philosophical discussion with me (or won't), then we won't be a good fit. By the same token, I can be respectful without giving up my fifty cent words. *One of the best compliments I got was that crazy black lion dude calling me on my high faluting writing and making fun of how intellectual it was. And I was just talking off the top of my head. That made me laugh.

I will tell you, though, that old habits are hard to break. I am still reticent about saying my peace. But I have wonderful friends and Aunt Fab who encourage me to speak authentically even when it's hard. I'm reminded of a saying from a 12 step program I've attended - "say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean." That totally works for me. *Despite the fact that I've told a few people off in the last 6 months. heh.

And just so you know... I'm wayyyyyyyyyyy more interesting now. I bet you are too!

hugs back atcha chica!
sunshine

im not sure i run rings, with me a trip switch goes off and i lose interest. bang. off. gone. its awful really

its all about growing and expanding. i like to grow and expand and if im with someone interesting then i enjoy meeting with their mind. but if they dont wish to meet with mine then its not going to go too well. its all about being inquisitive and interested in another person i think. if someone makes the effort to understand you then theyre more likely to engage youre brain and far better equipped to control the loops and 's' bends.

a friend and exMaster said to me on the phone the other night that i 'run away mentally' i laughed and agreed and said that i was hard work and he laughed and agreed. but i also know he enjoyed the mental hoops he had to go through to get me back on board. some people enjoy the mental aspects of control and being controlled and in there is intellect, the ability to engage the brain and keep it ticking. but also its about not having to feel that youre walking on ego egg shells. the freedom to be youreself and know that the person youre with can handle that, that opens up everything.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

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RE: internet, CM and self expression - 12/13/2009 5:33:22 PM

mc1234

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quote:

the freedom to be youreself and know that the person youre with can handle that, that opens up everything.

You've said a mouthful here, lally2. I've definitely spent some time being who the other person wanted me to be, rather than who I was inside. E and I have known one another almost a year now, and I actually posted something similar on fet the other day about how he loves me and wants me, because of *me*, not because of anything I offer as a submissive or whatever. It's such a freeing thing knowing I can say anything to him and know that we'll talk about it.

Great thoughts, thanks for sharing!

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