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RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 9:03:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I am prescribed 20mg of Kapromol (Morphine Sulphate} which is a slow release capsual

Kapromol = MS Contin in the US. It's analgesic properties are similar to oxycontin, which I mentioned. For chronic pain relief either are two of the best pain relievers for chronic pain on the market, with Methadone being, probably the absolute best, particularly for nueropathic pain. As truesub mentioned, it is mostly known for it use to treat heroin addiction, but it was used widely in the 70's and 80's for treatment of chronic pain, and was the most effective drug. It faded out with the advent of the newer long acting opioids. My personal opinion < and that of many others> is that the pharmacuetical lobbies pushed it off market in order to create their obscene revenue. In the US a months supply of Methadon is approx 15 dollars, while Oxycontin, MS Contin and Fentynal cost anywhere from 200-500 dollars a month.

The benefit of MS Contin < Kapromol> is that it is more difficult to abuse. In order to achieve a " high" from oxycontin, people who misuse it, chew it, breaking the time release coating, achieving a rush/high. MS Contin, if chewed will not give any high or rush. This is where the " addictive" property lies, which lends to my point and JohnWarrens point, that addicition is a property of the person, not the drug.

mbmbn

< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 3/18/2006 9:30:38 AM >

_____________________________

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When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 10:03:17 AM

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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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I really appreciate all the concern and input.

I know My family doc is not eager to prescribe narcotics. His fear is that they will be abused. He gives them to Me because I do not bug him for them. I asked for them when I broke My leg a couple of years ago, and again this time when I fell on My back. People have referenced addiction, which I have heard of before. That is a fair point to make. I do not have an addictive personality though. I used to smoke pot and hash and never got addicted. I never got addicted to the percs either. I seem at this point to be able to take them or leave them, but nonetheless I will be very careful. I appreciate the warning. I can not afford to get addicted to any type of drug.

The pain is an acute pain. I have only had it for about two months. It mostly showed up when I was sleeping or lifting. Often I would wake up in tears because the pain was so bad that I could not even move. Any movement caused some kind of spasm or something. I have indicated to the builder that I am planning on suing them if they do not come up with a settlement, as I do not think it is fair that I have to live like this as a result of their negligence.

I think I did overdose on the drug on moving day. All I know is that it made Me very sick. The tradeoff for trying to contribute I suppose.

As I mentioned before, the pain is starting to go away now, so I should be back to normal soon and not need the script any more. If that is not the case (for instance as JohnWarren said causing damage by working instead of resting) then I have made a mental note of the drugs listed here, and will ask for the appropriate one when I go back to the MD.

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RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 10:32:25 AM

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Thanks mbmbn for the info.. Our State Health Dept is one of the worst offenders in refusing to recognize the correct use of Kapromol and forces MDs to go through hell to appoint that patients can and are ordered to attend pain clinics and have several rights transgressed. I have documented a number of cases where the Qld Health dept has ordered a change of medication or refused to allow any prescription for some patients without even seeing their records or giving the patients a medical examination (All this is against Australian and International law but to date no one has found the min A$2 million to challenge them in the Supreme Court. It doesn’t help that the Qld Health Dept Director is a practicing Physician and the head of the Medical Department one of our Universities and has stated publicly on several occasions that there is no such thing as Arthritis of any form and that Diabetics have nothing wrong but are nothing but bludgers,,,,,,

SK, good to hear that you are on the mend….

_____________________________

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http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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(in reply to SirKenin)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 10:44:33 AM

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No such thing as arthritis eh? Heh, well I have a real eye opener for that loogan. My wife has a severe case of arthritis that has overtaken just about every joint, nook and cranny on her body. She is able to function due to medication, fortunately, but do not attempt to tell her, Me (who has seen how the joints can swell) and her specialist that there is no such thing as arthritis. That is wierd that someone would come up with something crazy like that, especially when cases of same are so well documented. The guy must be a nutcase. Either that or he lives in a cave.

And thank you. The last week I have been starting to do much better. I do not wake up in tears anymore. I figure that is a really good start. Man, there were no words to describe how that felt. Yikes.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 10:55:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

No such thing as arthritis eh?

Reminds me of a story about some MDs in the UK who decided seasickness was purely psychosomatic. Seems the RN invited them to further study this psychomatic illness... on a corvette in the North Sea.

A revised report came out shortly after it made landfall.

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RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 12:21:18 PM

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Mr Warren, I have a question for you.. and this is not sarcastic either.... and SirKenin, it still on topic for your thread....

I have spent so long in chronic pain, that I finally hit the depression mode of it. And was given zoloft to fight it. Max does.. 200 mg a day. After about 6 months, I was told.. dmn Jessica, your attitude has change alot.. I said.. no it hasn't, that's only 200 mg a day of zoloft. During the year of being on it... my whole attitude did change.. I stop caring. And I mean relly stopped caring. To the points of I now have problems disiplining my kids. Because they got in habit of my not caring. I came off the zoloft and started caring again... and my attitude came back with it.

NOw I see where they want to start putting people on anti - depressants for acute and chronic pain. They call it off lable presriptions. Using the drugs like zoloft, and prozac to help treat pain. I know the whole time I was on zoloft... I was still in pain and needing my pain meds.

Now with my daughter, and I've spoke of this before when I first came on CM, they want to treat her for pain (tumor in spine) with the anti -depressants.. and no pain meds.... thought she shows no signs of any depression... other thn fact we're tired of waiting to see what they're gonna do with her and this tumor. It was found in Jan 04 and still going back and forth with doctors about what can and will be done and when.

Long scenic route to asking this question.........

SirKenin... how are you dealing with the acute to chronic pain and are they trying to press anti-depressionants for pain management?

And Mr Warren... what are your thoughts on this and can you help me find more information on this. Googling takes me on run a rounds. Where I get 5 answers for 1 questions, with out really getting 1 straight answer.

Hope things are going better for you now SirKenin.

_____________________________

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RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 12:32:07 PM

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Actually, believe it or not I am not depressed. Strange as that may sound. Even when it was at it's peak I was not depressed, I just could not move. I never would have thought of using antidepressants for pain management.

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Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to truesub4u)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 12:50:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
And Mr Warren... what are your thoughts on this and can you help me find more information on this. Googling takes me on run a rounds. Where I get 5 answers for 1 questions, with out really getting 1 straight answer.

As with almost anything, there has to be a balance. The problem is that balance is different from everyone. I was recently offered a medication that had a slight risk (1 in a few tens of thousands) of inducing permanent Parkinson's disease. I balanced it against what it would do good and decided to pass. Another gives me hard stools. I balanced the good it does and decided to take it, stool softner and grunt a bit more. In both cases, someone else might take the other route.

I wish I could help you get more information but like you I've found the drug companies reluctant to part with hard figures.

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RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 1:20:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
nt for consideration: Percocet is a pain killer not a muscle relaxant. If you continue to work, as it sounds as if you are doing, you are likely to replicate the insult that caused the problem in the first place, but this time, the pills will block the warning pain. This could lead to permanent damage.

thats excellent advice. to the extent that if you know leaning left hurt you or caused you irritation before the medication you have to be conscious of that every moment to avoid that motion to prevent making it worse.

When i have to take pain killers for something i do a mental log of everything that made it worse and then i try to take just enough pain killer to take that sharp edge off of it so i can still feel if i am hurting myself or making problem worse. which is extremely easy to do when you cannot feel it. JW makes and excellent point here

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RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 1:22:38 PM

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Nothing made JW's point more apparent than the day I moved.. *sigh*. That was brutal.

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Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 1:34:17 PM

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Strange thing truesub, I rarely suffer from depression and nore does Neets even though she has chronic pain which most doctors here do not recognise even when I rub their noses in the printouts from respectec medicos in the US.. But I do suffer from stress brought on by pain... I've lost count of the times when medicos have attempted to get me onto anti-stress medication because my personal medication to deal with stress on the short term is cigarettes. The problem is that upto a couple of years ago I was by law armed 24/7.. Now I have that option if I want it but must have a weapons bag nearby at all times.. Seeing the anti-stress meds has the effect of creating at least initially psychosis it hardly seems wise to have an armed and psychotic combat officer about dontcha fink..........

Sweety if you even need just to talk, let off steam or anything just email me.....

_____________________________

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http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 1:37:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

And thank you. The last week I have been starting to do much better. I do not wake up in tears anymore. I figure that is a really good start. Man, there were no words to describe how that felt. Yikes.

Actually the Doctor in charge of Queensland Health is a "lady".. But I'd agree withyou on the synopsis...

Sheesh mate I'm just bloody glad the back is on the mend.. I know what it's like waking up sweating and in tears with pain.. no fun at all....

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to SirKenin)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 1:38:35 PM

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truesub:

I have quite a bit of info on the use of antidepressants in chronic pain. If you would like me to share, feel free to e mail me. BTW, controlled studies actually disprove their efficacy in chronic pain, unless used as adjunctively with analgesics, even then it's questionable.

mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to SirKenin)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 2:41:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Mr Warren, I have a question for you.. and this is not sarcastic either.... and SirKenin, it still on topic for your thread....

I have spent so long in chronic pain, that I finally hit the depression mode of it. And was given zoloft to fight it.

my whole attitude did change.. I stop caring.

NOw I see where they want to start putting people on anti - depressants for acute and chronic pain.

I was still in pain and needing my pain meds.

Now with my daughter, and I've spoke of this before when I first came on CM, they want to treat her for pain (tumor in spine) with the anti -depressants.. and no pain meds....

Hello trusub.

Sorry to hear you are getting jerked around like that. and that is what is happening to you, plain and simple.

JW since you passed on this i hope you do not mind my picking up the ball to try and help here.

There are several rules that must be adhered to when understanding and dealing with doctors.

rule #1) they can work miracles and transplant a heart and do brain surgery and they are good at that and do it well. so if you cut your arm off go to the doctor.

rule #2) doctors are in business. if they cure the common cold its less money in thier pocket. there is money in keeping you coming back for office visits and scripts.

rule #3) and this is the biggie. doctors do not do preventative medicine. they are bandaid specialists. they choose what they believe to be the best band aid to make you feel better even tho the so called cure is often worse than the original illness.

Ok now that i have had my little rant here is what i think about yours and your daughters situation.

as for your pain. they are not treating your pain with antidepresants. they have a literal fear of giving out pain meds to people. so because they have fear for you, you get to suffer and when you become depressed they treat your depression with zoloft which is a serotonin uptake inhibitor.

The neet thing about doctors are that they are wonderful at telling people 1/2 the story. Most doctors fail to tell you that most people do not sleep very well when taking zoloft. Did they tell you?

If they did tell you, did they tell you that the reason people do not sleep well is because zoloft eats melatonin as part of its process and melatonin is what the brain produces to induce sleep at night.

Now even if they told you that you may not sleep as well i have a nice shiny silver dollar says they did not tell you that you can go to the health food store and buy a bottle of melotonin supplements for a couple bucks and sleep just fine at nite.

If zoloft did not work for you the other one is, and lets see if i can get this right. <nephepherine> it tends to have the opposite effect of zoloft so that would have been the one to switch it with.

but thats not the problem anyway. the problem is pain.

i am not sure what its like in your state but many states have chronic pain clinics that specialize in pain management. usually you have to be recommended by a doctor to get in. the only way you are going to get in is if you "DEMAND" to get treatment. you will literally have to fight your way in, but if you are persistant and do not take no for an answer you stand a good chance of getting in. they will try to run you around in circles and detour you in ever other direction and if they do get a new doc and tell them you need to get something done about this because it is ruining your life. period.

Once you are in then its easy to discuss your daughters pain issues.

Ok now for your daughters tumor.

are you ready for this? :) LOL

chances are you can get rid of it without surgery.

a maintenance dose is 1 tablespoon per 100 lbs of body weight and always round up for fractions.

Best results are when several things are done simultaneously.

you can have her take roughly 6 - 8 tablespoons of flax oil along with 1/3 cup cottage cheese daily and by the time they get off their butts to operate the tumor will most likely be gone.

It takes roughly 6 months. This is not some witches brew. it actually comes from a 6 time nobel nominee in physics from germany and i think her name is budwig.

The oil taken in large quantities will choke off the tumor, and the cottage can be replaced with any natural sulfur like MSM or L-Methionine if she does not like cottage cheese. The sulfur is required to properly absorb the oil.

you can call barleans oils in washington and tell them you are getting rid of a tumor and they will most likely give you a discount if you want to buy bulk from them. Just remember to keep it frozen until use and then refrigerated during use as it gets rancid faster if left to open air and or is warm.

Next you want to get some phydrion ph litmus paper. from 6 - 7 in .2 incrememnts is best. most cancer patients have a low ph, leaning toward 6 in a saliva test roughly an hour after eating anything. proper ph is 6.8+ to 7.1, 7 being perfect.

Getting the ph up will assist in getting rid not only of tumors but also many cancers as cancer survives best in an anareobic state. Take it away and it makes living tough for cancer too.

Probably the easiest way to alkalyse the body is by eating lemons, or drinking lemon aid made with fresh lemons. it only takes a lemon per day 2 max if she is a large woman to do this.

Then after doing this for 6 months and the doctors want to operate insist on having more tests done first.

It does not work "all" the time on "everyone" but it works often enough that the couple hundred bucks spent on oil and lemons are worth the try, especially in the case of a brain tumor.

If you want to know more go into yahoo groups and type in flax oil, i just read about an elderly guy in there like 3 months ago who did this regime and shocked doctors when his golf ball sized brain tumor was dead after 6 months.

in any case get demanding or take your dom in with you and have him get demanding!

anyway if this interests you and you have further questions feel free to email me on the other side if you wish.

now back to pain...

good luck
r1

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/18/2006 2:53:39 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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(in reply to truesub4u)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 2:53:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Never come accross that drug under that name, but generally if your in a mind to tell a girl what great boobs she has, why not go all the way and ask her to kneel so you can collar her as a sex slave?

Jees mate you'll get a few slapped faces and even banned from the odd place but I'll bet you will end up with more slaves you know what to do with....

Its all fun and games untill her 6'4" boyfriend shows up trying to pit his foot up where it wouldnt fit :)

Or she knees him in the balls and slaps HER collar around his neck

Lashra

(in reply to Moloch)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 3:25:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
Or she knees him in the balls and slaps HER collar around his neck

Lashra

LMAO.... was gonna respond to the others till i seen this...

SirKenin, Mr Warren, RealOne, maybe, IronBear........ thank you all for your responses. Alot to respond to... I'll try to keep this short.

I never suffered actually through depression, they wanted to cut it off at the pass...zoloft knocked me out good... right along with the oxycontins and then methadone I was on. (Still on methadone)

I refuse to allow them to treat youngest with the anti - depression meds... because of all the problems in the news with it now... plus simply because..she's not despressed... lol

maybe, is not the analgesics you are speaking of... are thy those patches with the herion in it that you wear for 72 hours?.. if so.. they made me sick and that's how I ended up on the Oxycontin to begin with. Juragestic (spelling) I believe was name of them.. I forget.. it's been 5 years ago.

Any ways, thanks again.. and maybe i'l be giving you a holler real soon... hugggggssssss all...

And Sirkenin.. I really do hope you get better soon.... being a long suffer of back pain... i feel for you...

_____________________________

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RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/18/2006 3:59:45 PM

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quote:

maybe, is not the analgesics you are speaking of... are thy those patches with the herion in it that you wear for 72 hours?.. if so.. they made me sick and that's how I ended up on the Oxycontin to begin with. Juragestic (spelling) I believe was name of them.. I forget.. it's been 5 years ago.

truesub:
I mentioned Fentynal patches a few posts back.. those are what you were on. They are not synthetic heroin, but a synthetic morphine, so to speak. I am not sure if this is what you are referring to or if you are referring to my post regarding antidepressants and * analgesics*. If that is the one, analgesics is a classification for any med that relieves pain, from aspirin to morphine.

I am not surprised you got nausea with Fentynal and Oxycontin, that is a common side effect, which is a short term side effect. Often we treat the nausea/vomiting and keep the person on the med until the side effect passes < approx 4-7 days > ONLY if they are getting good pain control. In any case, Methadone is the " state of the art" drug now, and studies showing it is the best of all the opioids. Just a little FYI, there is no max dose of Methadone either, so it can be titrated up when you build up tolerance. I am guessing you are pretty well read on it and that isn't news to you. LOL.

Good luck with your childs illness, and I am with you on the antidepressants for her. I would not allow it either. That's more a personal thing than anything based on medical knowledge.

mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to truesub4u)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/19/2006 3:02:50 PM

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more Alkaline Foods - Acidic Foods

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to truesub4u)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/19/2006 9:26:34 PM

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Havent read much what anyone else said.

i just know that for me Opiates and the like.. tho i think percs are a benzo.. not sure havent kept up with my pill knowledge. BUT i know that most ppl on "opiates" go down, get tired and sleepy.. i've heard they feel drunk. they nodd off.. ect. Opiates are a downer.

For me, opiates are an anti depressant. i get energy and life, and i actually am not able to sleep on opiates. As for amphetamines (sp?) (no matter which kind they are) i can go to sleep right away. Not that i get tired.. tend to get over anxious.. but i go to sleep.

Point being some people are missing certian chemicals in their head. They'res like 2 pleasure ones.. seratonin.. and another one i cant think of.. and as a friend was telling me.. these chemicals we introduce to ourselves is like a replacement of the ones we are lacking.

You sound like you are lacking whatever type of chemical percs are putting into your system. Percs are supposed to be a "downer" not and upper.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

RE: Anybody else have this reaction? - 3/19/2006 9:43:03 PM

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quote:

Something to keep in mind... Percocet is 5 mg of oxycodone and 325 mg of Acetomenophen < tylenol> in each tablet. If you are taking more than 10 tablet/day you are taking too much Tylenol, which can be toxic to the liver. If you are requiring this much Percocet to acheive pain control, you may want to discuss with your MD about changing you to plain oxycodone OR oxycontin, which is the time released form of oxycodone.

very true. you have to watch the amount of acetomenonphen you put in your body. Too much and it'll kill you. But a couple of percs wont do that.

Another reason why you have to take so many percs is they're shit for pain. i once was prescribed them after i fell down a flight of cement steps and busted up my elbow. No breakage or fracturing.. just hurt like a stuck pig.. The percs did nothing for the pain.. just got me high as hell. Stay away from oxycontin unless of course you want an addition. and i dont care what anyone says about addiction. There is this thing called PHYSICAL ADDICTION, like when your body feels like crap if you havent taken your dose. Oxy's from what i hear are the shortest span when it comes to your body depending on them. Percs i have no clue as i've never done em that long. But in general optiates take about a week to 2 weeks for your body to depend on them. Its a pretty pain in the ass situation.

Aside from physiucal addiction you have to worry about the come down. Different things different reactions. i know xanax sky rocketed my depression for about 2 days. Just watch yourself and if and when you stop taking them... and you notice you arent up to speed physically or mentally keep in mind.If you do start to depend on them.. wait atleast 7 days to take them again, otherwise you put yourself back at the begining.

and uh.. just for the sake of saying it again..

quote:

Addiction is a property of the person, not the medication. Addiction occurs most often when some one misuses an opiod or misuses it to acheive the euphoric side effect.

you must be very limited in your drug knowledge. Addiction occurs very easily and at times has nothing to do with the person using it. That one statement had me stop reading your entire post and put it up to some one else talking out their butt. Especially, especially when you mentioned "opiod" as the drug in the sentence.

Dare you to take oxycontin's for 10 days straight and then completely stop. Dare you to take any good opiate for 10 days straight. Heck go on and even try tyelonl 3's as lousy as they are. You could try it with any med from the benzo family too. Why not, you'd only end up sick and miserable and wishing you had bitten your tongue.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

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