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Green bullets - 12/20/2009 3:09:42 AM

Aneirin

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From: Tamaris
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I do hope all you enviromentally conscious gun toting CM people are using Green Bullets and here, what the USAF say about it.

Anyways, I was wondering about all this ACC stuff, and our current impact on the planet with regards to activities of war. I wished to know if the detonation of munitions used in the theatre of war was impacting our land, more than just making holes. Surprisingly, I cannot find a great deal of information on it bar the lead contamination of ground and there ground water run off from firing ranges, but I am aware, that the chemical process in detonation of explosive compounds creates gases, which might be hazardous to health. Some detonation chemicals are listed in this book overview, but it has occurred that with the war in Afghanistan going on, following a war in Iraq, and rumours of further conflicts to be fought, just what is the scale of enviromental pollution from the battlefield munition detonations that are occurring ?

Well, we have heat most definately, a by product of chemical reaction explosive detonation used in launching projectiles, then we have explosive chemicals designed for the instantaneous expansion of forces, IED's and purpose designed weaponry, mines, bombs, shells etc. There is also an expulsion of the gases used in the explosive detonation to launch a projectile and gases from detonation of explode on contact weapons. Once these things have done their job, what is left, what chemicals are airborne in the enviroment, and intermingling with the ground soil, can, is what is left over a concern ?

Never mind nuclear and chemical weapons, they create their own problems, the '51-'62 Nevada nuclear tests, the enviromental impact has been well documented and found to be of concern, but hey, the military got their results.

So, I will get to the cruxt of what I am thinking, is what the military are doing and have done contributing to the changes that the researchers report on, nuclear testing, use of chemical weapons, and the use of conventional explosive weapons, they have to have an after effect, but is it a cause for concern ?

How much in average heat is created chemically by munition detonation per day, what additional chemicals are becoming airborne and what effects on ground and there ground water run off is there I wonder.

Oh, and lets not forget, fossil fuel combustion engined vehicles used in war are not exactly tuned for or have any enviromental considerations, they need maximum performance and the fuel is provided free of charge.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 12/20/2009 3:11:55 AM >

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RE: Green bullets - 12/20/2009 7:05:06 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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I think you've found two related topics that most gun owners probably don't care about, judging by this boards reaction to past discussions.

Sword fighting only from now on, I insist!

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RE: Green bullets - 12/20/2009 8:49:56 AM

DomImus

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I don't fire my weapon often enough to have any significant environmental impact and it is only discharged indoors so I probably won't rush out and purchase green ammunition but it's an interesting idea. Is this ammunition widely available?

Your post reminded me of a motion picture I saw many years ago. It was about a vigilante whose friend had been attacked and left paralyzed by some street thugs. The vigilante pulled the plug for his friend and set out to avenge the attack. Several other bad guys met their maker along the way. Our vigilante had a novel method of treating his ammunition to make it a bit more effective. He drilled a small recess in the tip of each round and placed a drop of mercury in the recess. He then sealed over that with what looked like solder. Even a flesh wound would ultimately be fatal. I thought that was an interesting idea, too... although I doubt it would pass muster with the green ammunition crowd or the EPA. If anyone recalls that flick and knows the name of the movie, please share. I'd like to see it again.

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RE: Green bullets - 12/20/2009 9:34:26 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

Your post reminded me of a motion picture I saw many years ago. It was about a vigilante whose friend had been attacked and left paralyzed by some street thugs. The vigilante pulled the plug for his friend and set out to avenge the attack. Several other bad guys met their maker along the way. Our vigilante had a novel method of treating his ammunition to make it a bit more effective. He drilled a small recess in the tip of each round and placed a drop of mercury in the recess. He then sealed over that with what looked like solder. Even a flesh wound would ultimately be fatal. I thought that was an interesting idea, too... although I doubt it would pass muster with the green ammunition crowd or the EPA. If anyone recalls that flick and knows the name of the movie, please share. I'd like to see it again.

Could you be confusing two different movies? The plot you describe doesn't fit, but mercury filled bullets were used in The Day of the Jackal. The purpose, however, was not to poison (mercury poisoning is treatable). The purpose was to create an exloding bullet.

The Jackal was using small caliber ammo for head shots. The method is to cut off the tip of the bullet, drill a small hole well into (but not all the way through) the rest of the slug, trickle some mercury into the "tube" thus created without filling it, and then solder the tip back on. Upon impact, the bullet decelerates dramatically, but the momentum of the mercury causes it to continue moving forward. Mercury is heavy, and when it hits the front of the bullet at the original speed of the round before impact, it "explodes" the tip off and considerably increases the wounding effect of an otherwise small projectile.

Or at least that's the theory. I don't know.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/20/2009 9:42:51 AM >

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RE: Green bullets - 12/20/2009 9:42:34 AM

DomImus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Could you be confusing two different movies? The plot you describe doesn't fit, but mercury filled bullets were used in The Day of the Jackal. The purpose, however, was not to poison (mercury poisoning is treatable). The purpose was to create an exloding bullet.

The Jackal was using small caliber ammo for head shots. The method is to cut off the tip of the bullet, drill a small hole well into (but not all the way through) the rest of the slug, trickle some mercury into the "tube" thus created without filling it, and then solder the tip back on. Upon impact, the bullet decelerates dramatically, but the momentum of the mercury causes it to continue moving forward. Mercury is heavy, and when it hits the front of the bullet at the original speed of the round before impact, it "explodes" the tip off and considerably increases the wounding effect of an otherwise small projectile.

No, it wasn't DOTJ but that's an interesting take on the mercury angle. I assumed it was for it's poisonous effect but that may be an entirely incorrect assumption. This was much more B-movie straight to video fare.

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RE: Green bullets - 12/20/2009 9:47:21 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

that's an interesting take on the mercury angle

Gunsmith: "Well, in that case, you'd better have explosive bullets. I can prepare a handful for you along with the gun."
The Jackal: "Glycerin or mercury?"

K.

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RE: Green bullets - 12/20/2009 1:10:46 PM

pahunkboy

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It might be a good idea.

Some say that the new bullets have a short shelf life- and - surmise this is done to expire on purpose. hmm.

It never occurred to me that ranges were filled with lead.

However- the number of super fund sites in the US is staggering.

Soldiers in Iraq are exposed to high levels of depleted uranium. I seen a piece, claiming - halliburten was not putting chlorine in the water.= exposure to a host of bacteria.

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RE: Green bullets - 12/20/2009 7:31:23 PM

InvisibleBlack

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There was a big push here in New York, maybe ten years ago, to measure the levels of "toxic lead" in gun ranges as a human health hazard. It was generally regarded by the gun owning public as a brazen attempt to shut down all legally operated gun ranges. It failed as they were unable to measure any appreciable levels of lead in the atmosphere of a gun range. Apparently shooting bullets down range and having them smash off the back wall makes a fair amount of debris that needs to be swept up but doesn't create any "toxic lead" hazard in the air we breathe.

That being said - gunpowder is pretty caustic and I don't know if I'd want to be stuck breathing a big cloud of it for an extended period of time. Luckily modern gunpowder doesn't really linger too long or form large clouds like the old black powders did.

I'd be less concerned about the possible environmental side effects of modern fire arms than I would about getting shot or blown up. Chemical weapons, which are easily accessible by most even semi-modern armies, are also really damn scary.

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RE: Green bullets - 12/20/2009 8:25:15 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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The Fleet Farm advertising insert in today's Sunday paper has a special on depleted uranium in .308 caliber. I'ma head down there tomorrow and scoop up a couple-three boxes for my AR-15.

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