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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

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mindless platitude

Maybe "boilerplate" would be a better word choice.

When one reaches the same conclusion about everybody in a particular group, it is hard to see mindfulness in the process.

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
You can justify cheating any way you want. You can insult those who are against it any way you want. It doesn't make the cheating less wrong, and it certainly doesn't make those of us who are against it feel that we are too judgemental and close minded. All it really does is tell us that you are someone that most of us would never want to be involved with because you believe dishonesty is ok.

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ORIGINAL: breatheasone

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
You can justify cheating any way you want. You can insult those who are against it any way you want. It doesn't make the cheating less wrong, and it certainly doesn't make those of us who are against it feel that we are too judgemental and close minded. All it really does is tell us that you are someone that most of us would never want to be involved with because you believe dishonesty is ok.

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady



You can justify cheating any way you want. You can insult those who are against it any way you want. It doesn't make the cheating less wrong, and it certainly doesn't make those of us who are against it feel that we are too judgemental and close minded. All it really does is tell us that you are someone that most of us would never want to be involved with because you believe dishonesty is ok.

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Mike posts in black font

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ORIGINAL: breatheasone

i hear what you are saying, there's where i get stuck though...

Let's say i have a partner with your stance on honesty. i would be a little concerned about how to know which things my partner thinks is ok to be honest about, and what things they would be ok to lie about. Would my partner provide a list, or set of circumstances? See, i'm just not sure how i would be able to process that.... And to be blunt, if someone feels its ok to lie about certain things, i would worry what else could become "ok" to keep from me, or lie about to me.

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ORIGINAL: agirl

What IS my stance on *honesty?

Being honest about the fact that I lie means that I'm a liar, therefore I might be lying about being honest about lying?

Having known my owner for over 10 yrs I think we BOTH know each other rather well.   He can work these these things out....lol

Neither of us have ever made a single promise to each other about *honesty* ....... it's just a redundant conversation.   Either I trust what I know of him or I don't.......If I don't want to risk being with him because he hasn't made some declaration of fidelity, or honesty, or telling lies, then that's up to me. It's not as if he chased me down and pursuaded me to be with him with honeyed lips. I made my own assessment about those things based on knowing him as my best friend for years and years. Have you noticed how the * love, honour and obey .........and til death us do part* declarative promise works out in so many cases?...lol

I have no idea what the future might bring , but I certainly won't spend much time worrying about whether he's going to *hurt* me with some dishonesty of some kind just because he's never declared * I'm always going to be honest with you*. Neither of us need THAT type of security or reassurance. We seem to have managed quite well without it, for, well, as long as we've known each other.

Everybody is different.....I'm not confused or insecure about these things. I just *know* what I need to know about the bloke.

agirl

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

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ORIGINAL: agirl

What IS my stance on *honesty?

Being honest about the fact that I lie means that I'm a liar, therefore I might be lying about being honest about lying?

Having known my owner for over 10 yrs I think we BOTH know each other rather well.   He can work these these things out....lol

Neither of us have ever made a single promise to each other about *honesty* ....... it's just a redundant conversation.   Either I trust what I know of him or I don't.......If I don't want to risk being with him because he hasn't made some declaration of fidelity, or honesty, or telling lies, then that's up to me. It's not as if he chased me down and pursuaded me to be with him with honeyed lips. I made my own assessment about those things based on knowing him as my best friend for years and years. Have you noticed how the * love, honour and obey .........and til death us do part* declarative promise works out in so many cases?...lol

I have no idea what the future might bring , but I certainly won't spend much time worrying about whether he's going to *hurt* me with some dishonesty of some kind just because he's never declared * I'm always going to be honest with you*. Neither of us need THAT type of security or reassurance. We seem to have managed quite well without it, for, well, as long as we've known each other.

Everybody is different.....I'm not confused or insecure about these things. I just *know* what I need to know about the bloke.

agirl

But I would say that it is a reasonable assumption that you expect those things from him and he from you. The point isn't that people should necessarily enter into what are typically vanilla marriages with discussions of fidelity. In the vanilla world, we all know that if you are getting married, the unspoken expectation is fidelity and honesty. For those who are going to go about it differently and openly, they do have that discussion.

There is a huge difference between "understanding" why someone would cheat and "condoning" the behavior.

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ORIGINAL: Acer49

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ORIGINAL: lovingpet

~FR~

I am coming in waaaaaaay late to the party on this one and didn't take time to read all the ruckus, so I have no idea where we are in this conversation.

I am one of those married people with an uninvolved spouse. It isn't like we didn't try. I am switch so we've tried him in the dominant position and the submissive position. He doesn't take well to having his life ordered for him (at least not in such an obvious fashion) and he doesn't have the personality traits necessary for a dominant partner for me. I also enjoy S/m on both sides. He didn't like receiving pain. It was very harmful to him mentally to inflict pain upon me. He usually got into it at the time, but morning regrets in the form of marks and bruises didn't set well with him at all. We agreed it really didn't work for us to share this with each other. We are basically vanilla with a few twists thrown it that will become clear later.

With his blessing, I searched/am searching for partners that are able to step into those positions. We both kind of figured it would be an itch I'd like to have scratched on occasion and these folks would just be close friends of ours with play priveleges. All that changed when my dominant partner got hold of me. There was a connection very similar in a lot of ways to what my husband and I share, different but similar, and he was able to hit all the right buttons when it came to my submissive desires. After one session, it was painfully clear that part time and just special friends wasn't going to cut it.

My husband and I have had to enter into a lot of deep emotional and relationship water to find a resolution that is both nurturing of me and my needs and fair to him. I say I am in a reluctant poly situation because I never really wanted to be nonmonogamous. It just happened that way. Life is funny like that. We have all determined the best way is for us to share our entire lives together. We will all be moving in a few months to make that a reality. It is the way that seems right for us. It may not be right for others. My biggest concerns all along the way were honoring the needs and emotions of both these men. I didn't want to disrespect the relationship either of them have with me nor did I want to use anyone.

I think it is fair to say that there are some married folks out there that do not need to stoop to deception and usury to meet their bdsm desires. Many do take the low road and I really find it distasteful. After all the hard work that I put in to keeping myself above board and working out the difficulties inherent to taking the hard road, I really don't appreciate what I perceive as laziness in others. My way isn't the way for everyone, but I don't think enough can be said for integrity. It is a trait I value highly. I do my best to display it as well. I never could have expected to be in the position I am in a million years. It isn't the way my storybook was supposed to go. I have had to abandon the fiction for the reality and work within it. I am sure my husband and, perhaps, my partner feel much the same. This isn't what anyone signed on for, but it is what we've got. We will do our best to make it something beautiful.

lovingpet

Your way may not be for everyone, but maybe it should be.
You had needs, and the first person you went to was your spouse. You tried very hard, in hopes that he would be him who could satisy those needs, When that didn't work, you discussed and jointly agreed on getting another. You at no time attempted to lie or deceive your spouse. You had his support. This is the way it should be done. From where I sit, you did everything right and nothing wrong. and seems to be working.

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ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Addressed toward those upholding honesty and fidelity... which I believe I have always kept and still do possess in my relationship, do you believe that a shift in the marriage dyanmics such as what I have had is acceptable? Is that still fidelity? I am confused about how anyone can possibly cover all the contingencies of what if prior to marrying. There are a lot of life experiences and attendant perspective changes over a lifetime. How does one deal with those if only the pre existing, previously agreed upon rules can ever apply?

lovingpet

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ORIGINAL: Lockit

I wasn't aware that knuckleheads evolved! Well damn... learn something new every day!

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ORIGINAL: agirl

I disagree. In vanilla marriages it spoken only too loudly with the *keep thyself only unto her/him * bit.

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ORIGINAL: agirl
We are incredibly open ...we don't need to *talk* it , we've just been it and done it. What would I gain from asking him if he would always be honest with me? I think it'd be a bit insulting actually.

agirl

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ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Addressed toward those upholding honesty and fidelity... which I believe I have always kept and still do possess in my relationship, do you believe that a shift in the marriage dyanmics such as what I have had is acceptable? Is that still fidelity? I am confused about how anyone can possibly cover all the contingencies of what if prior to marrying. There are a lot of life experiences and attendant perspective changes over a lifetime. How does one deal with those if only the pre existing, previously agreed upon rules can ever apply?

lovingpet

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

What I think is wrong, and will always think is wrong is for people to be deceitful to their partner in order to get what they want.