RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by President Obama

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RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/30/2009 4:09:13 PM

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I suddenly have the urge to watch the ball drop on New Years Eve.

chia* (the pet)

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/30/2009 4:48:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I think, first, we should stay on topic, which was terrorists, with a lead in to Gitmo.

If I did that - I would have ignored you completely since the topic was the President's response to the attack on December 25th. You brought up the closing of GITMO, but I won't apologize for having the courtesy of not ignoring the question; that just the way I am.

Gitmo came from your reply # 28.

quote:

quote:

lets be real here, we are talking about a piece or paper drafted to create our form of government how many years ago? Who would have thought then that this could happen. Hell, there weren't even thinking of flying then, beyond strapping on a pair of wings.
That "piece of paper" wasn't drafted to create our form of government it was created to document the laws FOR the government formed. Until recently, States didn't get any form of 'special dispensation' granted to them if their Senator would vote yes for a Bill - that is completely new territory.

On your other point - Miranda Rights went into effect as a result of a Supreme Court decision made in 1966, people WERE flying then - they even had TV!

And they are more complicated than most realize. Not to mention, many of the detainees have had their miranda rights read to them. But, onto another thought here, and possibly you could answer this.. maybe not.

Do we now start giving the miranda rights on the battlefields?

quote:

quote:

I, like everyone else, saw the pictures and read the actions concerning Gitmo.
I didn't assume I actually tried to find some "pictures" and documentation of "actions" concerning Gitmo. The worst I could find was the accusation of prisoners that the quality of food and the Koran being placed in the lavatory. There were no pictures of 'Water-boarding' but I don't think that anyone is representing it didn't happen. Perhaps you were thinking of the 'Abu Ghraib' pictures?

You may want to look up the incident involving a Army Sgt. 1st Class Sean Baker. The pictures of Abu Ghraib where bad enough, and no, i have yet to see any about waterboarding. These are more typical of what they constitute as "light" abuse, bloodied lips, naked, ect.

quote:

quote:

Say what you wish, its in the best interests of national security, further evidenced by the one's who were released by Bush and are currently attacking once again.
What is in the "best interests of national security"; keeping GITMO open and the prisoners incarcerated or following the Bush example releasing more who can provide other "isolated examples" of however you want to refer to what happened on the airliner going into Detroit?

Neither, Closing gitmo and moving them to american soil. However, i do not agree with civilian trials.

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/30/2009 5:10:35 PM

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quote:

Gitmo came from your reply # 28.

As an example of the potency of the office of the President. The executive order regarding GITMO was signed on January 20th. However the same attention and order, was never given regarding changing the, as was posed, the lax security measures taken by the prior Administration. Selective use of documentation and but it's a slow day and I'm choosing to amusing myself with responding.

quote:

And they are more complicated than most realize. Not to mention, many of the detainees have had their miranda rights read to them. But, onto another thought here, and possibly you could answer this.. maybe not.

What is not complicated is when they are required. This Administration made them apply when they never have before. Conceptually they aren't complicated at all.

quote:

Do we now start giving the miranda rights on the battlefields?

You've come to the same logical question - Do we? Only one of the many corners that this Administration has painted for themselves without a clear path for extraction.

quote:

You may want to look up the incident involving a Army Sgt. 1st Class Sean Baker. These are more typical of what they constitute as "light" abuse, bloodied lips, naked, ect.

Stipulating that the incident occurred back in 2002 or 2003? (I forget), why wouldn't the same thing happen in the US? Are you under the delusion that prisoners in US prisons aren't subject to similar at the hands of guards and/or other prisoners?

quote:

Closing gitmo and moving them to american soil. However, i do not agree with civilian trials.

Indefinite, or permanent incarceration? Not even the most notorious Nazi war criminals were subject to that. They all got trials - military trials but trials and specific sentences. The idea of indefinite incarceration for these men is a bit too right wing radical for me.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/30/2009 5:19:41 PM

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I agree... its time to try them all... but not in civilian courts.

Enough time has passed for evidence gathering. Enough money has been wasted. The suggestion of bringing them stateside was to push for these trials, to bring the situation more homeward, and to nudge elected officials to finally get something done. Im sure some have done nothing... some, possibly only minor roles... and some are heavy players... they already know who is who... time to get this over with.

quote:

Stipulating that the incident occurred back in 2002 or 2003? (I forget), why wouldn't the same thing happen in the US? Are you under the delusion that prisoners in US prisons aren't subject to similar at the hands of guards and/or other prisoners

Actually, the Sgt in question ended up with permanent brain damage resulting from his orders at gitmo. as i said... may want to read up on that.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/30/2009 6:41:08 PM

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Yes you get CANCER,if you fly very often-part of the new world order population control,jack

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/30/2009 6:42:23 PM

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lol, are you a conservative or a liberal, do you think, jack?

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RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/30/2009 7:52:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I agree... its time to try them all... but not in civilian courts.

Trouble with trying them anywhere, is that you need some sort of evidence. And with many of these guys, we don't seem to have much. Otherwise they would have been convicted long ago.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/30/2009 8:03:42 PM

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I thought the evidence rules were different for military courts?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/31/2009 9:00:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I thought the evidence rules were different for military courts?

They are - but you don't put on a military trial in a Manhattan court, as is planned by this Admnistration.

That is unless you want to take a editor's pencil into court with you and work on a new version of the Constitution while you do so.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/31/2009 9:42:02 AM

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As i have said before, i dont agree with everything this administration is doing... this being a case in point.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/31/2009 11:41:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Just on BBC news Obama says this whole thing was an unacceptable failure. Apparently the CIA knew of this guy weeks ago yet no one thought to cancel his US visa.....

E

Oh puleeeese government... protect me from the evil-doers! Fuck the Constitution. My individual rights aren't nearly important. Just protect me!!!

Hey... wait a minute... OMG... you don't think ... <gasp> ... maybe the PTB wanted this guy to get close???

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/31/2009 11:56:00 AM

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The CIA did their job, they alerted the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security that the guy was a potential threat. This president and his political appointees simply don't believe that al-Qaeda is a real problem, and so they are recieving the required education and experience that they lacked coming in to their current positions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Just on BBC news Obama says this whole thing was an unacceptable failure. Apparently the CIA knew of this guy weeks ago yet no one thought to cancel his US visa.....

E

Oh puleeeese government... protect me from the evil-doers! Fuck the Constitution. My individual rights aren't nearly important. Just protect me!!!

Hey... wait a minute... OMG... you don't think ... <gasp> ... maybe the PTB wanted this guy to get close???

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(in reply to subfever)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/31/2009 1:11:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

The CIA did their job, they alerted the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security that the guy was a potential threat. This president and his political appointees simply don't believe that al-Qaeda is a real problem, and so they are recieving the required education and experience that they lacked coming in to their current positions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Just on BBC news Obama says this whole thing was an unacceptable failure. Apparently the CIA knew of this guy weeks ago yet no one thought to cancel his US visa.....

E

Oh puleeeese government... protect me from the evil-doers! Fuck the Constitution. My individual rights aren't nearly important. Just protect me!!!

Hey... wait a minute... OMG... you don't think ... <gasp> ... maybe the PTB wanted this guy to get close???

Prove to me where the President along with his appointees were notified about this dreadful terrorist....Then we can have a discussion.

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RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 12/31/2009 3:44:05 PM

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There you go domiguy.

And happy new year to you and yours.

quote:

...More details emerged about contacts between Mr. Abdulmutallab’s father and the American Embassy in Nigeria. In October, presumably while in Yemen, Mr. Abdulmutallab spoke by telephone with his father, Alhaji Umaru Mutallab, a prominent retired banker. His father was so alarmed by his son’s radical talk that he contacted Nigerian officials, who advised him to contact the United States Embassy.

Mr. Mutallab visited the embassy on Nov. 19 and told officials his son had been radicalized, was missing and might be in Yemen, said a State Department spokesman, P. J. Crowley. Mr. Crowley said that Mr. Mutallab did not say he believed his son planned to attack Americans, but that he expressed general concern about his radical views.

The information was taken seriously, Mr. Crowley said, but was judged insufficient to warrant revoking Mr. Abdulmutallab’s visa, although his file was flagged for investigation if he reapplied. Embassy officials representing several security agencies discussed the information on Nov. 20 and sent a cable to Washington. His name was added to a database of 550,000 names with suspicion of terrorism ties, but it did not go onto the 4,000-person no-fly list.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/29/us/29terror.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2

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(in reply to domiguy)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 1/2/2010 2:10:34 PM

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No, you said Obama and his political appointees.

If I speak to the "officials" at an embassy it does not mean that I spoke with the ambassador. I truly doubt that the ambassador was ever notified and I am quite confident that this eighteen year old pud's name never, ever crossed Obama's desk.

I never thought you would go so low as to embellish a story....This is a sad day for America.

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RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 1/2/2010 2:16:09 PM

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"Those who will not be named".

This sounds like Jack the Ripper......who apparently en route from murder site to home wrote on a wall above a piece of apron smeared with blood and faeces: "The Jews are the Men who Will Not be Blamed for Nothing".

Now - I'm fucked if I'm throwing round accusations....but something ain't right here.

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RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 1/2/2010 2:19:41 PM

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quote:

I never thought you would go so low as to embellish a story....

liar liar pants on fire.

T.

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 1/2/2010 2:23:18 PM

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quote:

I thought the evidence rules were different for military courts?

quote:

They are

Just how are they different?

T.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 1/2/2010 2:27:46 PM

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quote:

I agree... its time to try them all... but not in civilian courts.

Why don't you want them tried in civilian courts. Both administrations seems to be of the opinion that they are not POW's. Or is it possible that you feel that they might gain their freedom in a civilian court? Are you interested in justice or just a hanging?

T.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: "Those who will not be named" At least by... - 1/2/2010 3:48:06 PM

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Just so you all know...We, the strong kick-ass citizens of Illinois, welcome all of those mother fucking detainees from Gitmo.

Unlike so many of my Republican brothers we are not afraid of these fuckers or the possibility of any retaliations.

We are fucking Americans!!! We don't hide from conflict. We say, Bring it fucking on!!!!

When did Republicans become such pussies?....

http://www.carmitimes.com/state_news/x206844437/Detainees-moving-to-Illinois

"Republican U.S. Reps. Mark Kirk, Don Manzullo, Judy Biggert and Peter Roskam held a news conference in Chicago Monday. They say an Obama administration proposal to buy the state's Thomson Correctional Center is too risky."

Too risky to house these 60 or so fuckwads? Illinois is happy to stand proud and accept the challenges of what it means to be an American.

Apparently many Republicans are not.

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