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RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 8:33:42 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think you give the average person any way too much credit...teenage boys will still beat up homosexual boys in the school yard 50 years from now...long after all states have same sex marriage laws. Social changes or not

It was natural that women worked in the kitchen, they needed protecting, it was natural that white people were in charge of black people etc etc. Social change changes attitudes slowly. And to be fair I don't think that social progression happens in the states alone.

Edit to add no I dont, I was agreeing that we were using a different method to get to the same meaning

ETA part two, I think I am derailing this topic a little too much with an argument that won't be settled so I shall stop now.

No not derailing I like the way your brain works...interesting...remember many women look down on lesbians...even those that worked in the kitchen

Black people who were enslaved still looked down on gay blacks in the same situation.

I'm glad that even though we came to the same conclusion by different means our hearts are in the right place.

Butch

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Post #: 41

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 8:53:07 AM

sexyred1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I agree with you but it is the way it is...the why is still an opinion but soon it will be understood on a scientific level and reasonable people at least will understand...but never all.

I am still not understanding your comments about being understood on a scientific level.

I think now many people believe a homosexual is a deviant... that they chose to be gay...I believe science is closing in on what part of the brain makes you a man… woman...bisexual...or gay. When reasonable people believe this to be true and these people are not deviants but normal then they will think differently of them.

Butch

Thanks for clarifying, but think about this; do you honestly think that someone who views homosexuality as a deviant behavior is going to change their small minded attitude by being shown any type of scientific data disproving that? I think you are giving narrow minded people too much credit to assume they will automatically change their views if given science to consider.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 42

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 8:56:06 AM

Wolf2Bear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Carmeldelight

People are not affair of same sex marriage; it is something that is not the will of the Lord!!! God did not make Adam and Steve but Adam and Eve!!!

Yet do we honestly know what the will of god is? After all....all man has is what was written down centuries ago. It is apparent by your statement that you may feel that us gays are blasphemy and an abomination in the eyes of god. If that is the case .....does that mean that literally that gays should be removed/gotten rid of so that all that is god's creatures are perfect for his eyes? Consider this.....man was made in god's image, not all men are heterosexual and some are homosexual-thus logic dictates that we gays are also a reflection of god's image thus god is both heterosexual and homosexual?

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Post #: 43

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 9:06:13 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I agree with you but it is the way it is...the why is still an opinion but soon it will be understood on a scientific level and reasonable people at least will understand...but never all.

I am still not understanding your comments about being understood on a scientific level.

I think now many people believe a homosexual is a deviant... that they chose to be gay...I believe science is closing in on what part of the brain makes you a man… woman...bisexual...or gay. When reasonable people believe this to be true and these people are not deviants but normal then they will think differently of them.

Butch

Thanks for clarifying, but think about this; do you honestly think that someone who views homosexuality as a deviant behavior is going to change their small minded attitude by being shown any type of scientific data disproving that? I think you are giving narrow minded people too much credit to assume they will automatically change their views if given science to consider.

I did...and I convinced my mother who was very homophonic and a best friend…that is how changes get made.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/9/2010 9:08:13 AM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Post #: 44

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 9:06:17 AM

Wolf2Bear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think now many people believe a homosexual is a deviant... that they chose to be gay...I believe science is closing in on what part of the brain makes you a man… woman...bisexual...or gay. When reasonable people believe this to be true and these people are not deviants but normal then they will think differently of them.

Butch

And it is also possible that it is some unknown combination of nature and nurture and possibly genetics which will produce a person who identifies as gay. At this point in our evolution, science is not able to fully explain and neither can psychologists.

_____________________________

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Take the pain
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I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
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Post #: 45

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 9:13:20 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think now many people believe a homosexual is a deviant... that they chose to be gay...I believe science is closing in on what part of the brain makes you a man… woman...bisexual...or gay. When reasonable people believe this to be true and these people are not deviants but normal then they will think differently of them.

Butch

And it is also possible that it is some unknown combination of nature and nurture and possibly genetics which will produce a person who identifies as gay. At this point in our evolution, science is not able to fully explain and neither can psychologists.

Yes I stated it was still opinion...but remember genetics changes my still not be abnormal and a result of a developing brain that for all we know controls the process. I just believe you can leave nurture out of it. But again an opinion. I do know there is much research on the brains of gay people and they have found differences...I have not heard of and genetic mutations but of course you can't rule that out.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/9/2010 9:14:36 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Wolf2Bear)

Post #: 46

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 9:17:00 AM

kdsub

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Does it not stand to reason that if there are differences between a mans brain and a womans...and we know that to be true...that there would also be a difference in the brains of homosexuals compared to both men or women?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/9/2010 9:18:20 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 47

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 9:22:17 AM

rockspider

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Some folks believe it weakens traditional marriage, which I think is a hoot. Heterosexuals are doing a fine job of weakening marriage, all by themselves!

Well that was another keyboard sprayer. I better come and spank your ass one of these days

(in reply to thornhappy)

Post #: 48

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 9:24:42 AM

Wolf2Bear

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Several years ago I had read reports that some from the medical community had found those differences yet many others had discounted those findings and were quite skeptical of the parameters used in the studies and felt the results didn't accurately reflect the population as a whole. Overall, I do find your opinions on this topic quite rational and quite open minded....thanks.

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 49

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 9:34:22 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
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FR

In the UK the position is they have civil unions but not marriage because it comes down to the semantics of the word marriage being defined in law as the union of one man and one woman. I don’t see the great concern for changing that as long as all parties have the same practical rights in terms of becoming next of kin and tax breaks etc.

Although why on earth does government give anyone tax breaks for being together with another person? I oppose this nonsense because that is government making a moral judgement over a person’s lifestyle for being single. Thus I say David Cameron fuck off with your married couples allowance!

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RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 9:45:36 AM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

Several years ago I had read reports that some from the medical community had found those differences yet many others had discounted those findings and were quite skeptical of the parameters used in the studies and felt the results didn't accurately reflect the population as a whole. Overall, I do find your opinions on this topic quite rational and quite open minded....thanks.

too true. even now, they are saying breast feeding offers no more benefits than bottle feeding. seems, at least scientifically, they say one thing yesterday, another today, and change it back tomorrow. yet, the benefit to breat feeding is immunity.

however, i do feel when they data, it will be published quickly. the scientific honors to be garnered by such a find will be astounding.

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RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 9:56:37 AM

pahunkboy

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some on the right are very fearfull of all this and I am concerned about blowback.

So I think caution should be in order.

Civil unions are good. On the one hand- separate but equal- and yet- 2 same sex can not actually make a baby. So in some way- the marriage can never be equal when measured this way.

good fences make good neighbors.

the gay crowd- tho is - IMO- dropping the ball - being excited over gay marriage- when the TARP is the real threat to our way of life.

So - lets suppose gay marriage is won and TARP then prevails. Did anyone really win? No. Well- except for the private banking families. -the federal reserve.

so it can become a carnival of distraction when the gold and silver of the people is looted- and on that- I say is pathetic.

....oppression goes up considerably when hard times hit- so- look out.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 52

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 10:18:58 AM

InvisibleBlack

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Although why on earth does government give anyone tax breaks for being together with another person? I oppose this nonsense because that is government making a moral judgement over a person’s lifestyle for being single. Thus I say David Cameron fuck off with your married couples allowance!

Here in the U. S. a couple who is married will get a significant tax break and an even bigger one if they have children. There is also a significant tax break for purchasing your own home as a primary residence. This is all basically a back-end way of subsidizing the family. There is a serious monetary advantage to getting married and having children in a home you own. It's been that way for decades. I don't actually know when they instituted these things in the tax code but it's before my lifetime.

This issue gives rise to multiple questions:

Should same-sex couples have the same monetary and economic advantages as heterosexual couples?
Should same-sex couples be given the same social recognition and status as heterosexual couples?
Should the government be subsidizing any form of social unit or grouping?
Should the government be able to define acceptable and unacceptable family structures?

Some of these questions have far-reaching implications.

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RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 10:36:27 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack
Here in the U. S. a couple who is married will get a significant tax break and an even bigger one if they have children. There is also a significant tax break for purchasing your own home as a primary residence. This is all basically a back-end way of subsidizing the family. There is a serious monetary advantage to getting married and having children in a home you own. It's been that way for decades. I don't actually know when they instituted these things in the tax code but it's before my lifetime.

This issue gives rise to multiple questions:

Should same-sex couples have the same monetary and economic advantages as heterosexual couples? (Yep)
Should same-sex couples be given the same social recognition and status as heterosexual couples? (Yep)
Should the government be subsidizing any form of social unit or grouping? (Nope)
Should the government be able to define acceptable and unacceptable family structures? (Nope)

Some of these questions have far-reaching implications.

Yes even here we have child tax credits which are supposedly aimed at lifting children out of poverty but most likely just end up subsidising the parents craving for beer and cigarettes.

Child tax credits are slightly different in ethos because it can be argued people should be encouraged to become parents and thus supply our future needs, as we all live longer in this aging population. Whether or not the family needs a bit of paper stating they have made a commitment to stay together as a family unit to get tax breaks is more contentious. The Tories like to say they are making it easier on those families to stay together when the reality is tax wise you probably have more to gain living as a single parent because then you keep all of the child tax credit to yourself which usually outstrips any gain giving by a married couples living allowance. So the married couples living allowance would really have to cost us quite a bit to provide an incentive to stay together.

The research behind this Tory policy suggests that those that marry are more likely to stay together so they encourage people to marry. The obvious fact they are ignoring is that those that marry of their own freewill and don't have to be encouraged to do so by the state are of an entirely different mentality anyway, so it's a false premise.

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RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 11:57:26 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
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From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

some on the right are very fearfull of all this and I am concerned about blowback.

So I think caution should be in order.

Civil unions are good. On the one hand- separate but equal- and yet- 2 same sex can not actually make a baby. So in some way- the marriage can never be equal when measured this way.

good fences make good neighbors.

the gay crowd- tho is - IMO- dropping the ball - being excited over gay marriage- when the TARP is the real threat to our way of life.

So - lets suppose gay marriage is won and TARP then prevails. Did anyone really win? No. Well- except for the private banking families. -the federal reserve.

so it can become a carnival of distraction when the gold and silver of the people is looted- and on that- I say is pathetic.

....oppression goes up considerably when hard times hit- so- look out.

I personally would not have a problem with separate but equal but in trying to research I could not find where civil unions were recognized equal to marriage in all 50 states. A health insurer can discriminate because of the word "spouse" so in that case a civil union, even where recognized, is not equal to marriage.

Hopefully someone will share which states actually do have civil unions which are 100% equal to marriage in where the partners have the same rights as spouses.

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Post #: 55

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 12:08:29 PM

pahunkboy

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this is a contentious issue.

Social Security was being adversely effected in a few areas where gay marriage was allowed. I don't know it that resolved- but it opened a potential to lose SS somehow..... for some- back a few years ago.

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 56

RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 1:38:54 PM

Carmeldelight

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No the Lord was not gay.......the devil has to have his children too!??!?!!?

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RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 1:42:47 PM

popeye1250

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Ah,.....because I don't want some guy's dick up my ass?

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RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 1:46:55 PM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ah,.....because I don't want some guy's dick up my ass?

It's not like one could make it past your head, so I think you're safe for the time being.

~stef

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RE: Why are people afraid of same-sex marriage? - 1/9/2010 3:14:48 PM

eyesopened

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Carmeldelight

No the Lord was not gay.......the devil has to have his children too!??!?!!?

Really? Where do you get this stuff? There is nothing in the bible about satan creating anything. Isn't he called the Destroyer? Please site your source.

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Post #: 60

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