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submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/6/2004 6:01:44 AM

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Joined: 2/24/2004
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I need to know if anyone else would or has done this, and how if at all it can be gotten around.

Resently someone dear to me asked me to get to know and becouse friends with another submissive. He spoke to at great lenth about me. But never said one word about her to me. He wishes this of me so that he may do things with her that we have agreed is only to be shared between the two of us. This is in effect my one and only deal breaker. He is requesting to remove.

But he asked this in the middle os our time together, when i was still in sub space. All his "big" talks happen this way. With me being in a powerless place, I get ripped out of sub space, then feel angry, crying, hurting ect. I am sure you get the ideal.

How do i remove my emtions out of this becouse of the way he asked and see if i can even consider what he is asking. How do i get him not to speak to me about "big things" in the middle of scening. I requested if he had any more "chats" such as this that he make a seprate time for me. He agreed, but i am very very angry and want to just tell him get lost.

I want to run, like i normally do when hurting. It took so long to trust this person. I have invested about 1.5 - 2 years into him.

Thank you,
golden1

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/6/2004 6:17:37 AM

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Please excuse My Post on Your Board Masters

quote:

I need to know if anyone else would or has done this, and how if at all it can be gotten around.

breaking word is no different then breaking contracts
and it is not sumthing that should be tempted to be
gotten around. His addressing issues when you are
in sub mode only and scening goes to show His
weaknesses in how He addresses what He wants with
you. From your words it seems He wants more
but does not desire to lose you in this effort. If this
has been a limit allready addressed He is wanting
to now break the rules or contract. you can do one
of two things in My Opinion in addressing this
situation but Im sure Masters will see more:
walk away and be happy for the 1.5 to 2 years you
enjoyed together because I think He has made
it clear this is sumthing He wants and if you are
unconfortable with this there is no need in going on
any further and you need to find a Dom more in line
to your mono type desires. or you can re establish
your limits in written form and make it clear as to
where you stand in your acceptance as sub within
your BDSM Living and accept His as well as it is obvious
that His needs have changed and He dident know
how to go about addressing this. JMO [remember
its not just subs whom learn about their selfs and
needs as they mature in relationships and lifestyles
but Dominants do to.]

(in reply to golden1)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/6/2004 6:29:34 AM

Posts: 105
Joined: 7/11/2004
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Wow, what a mess...

What I am understanding from this post, is that you have a Dom that wants to play with another sub, you and him have an exclusive relationship and you are not ok with this idea. I am also understanding that whenever he wants to speak seriously, he is doing it at a time that you are not emotionially capable of handeling the discussion.

That is what I understand, so that is what I will respond to.

I am in a poly relationship. It is NOT an easy path, and I do not recommend it to anybody that is not interested in going there on their own. My Master led me into this kind of relationship as it was his idea first not mine, and it has been a very difficult journey for the both of us.

What the person you are dealing with is doing is not the best way to get you to be interested in this kind of life and I find that to be sad. If you like though, one play would be to turn this idea back around on him and see how he likes the idea of you playing with another Dom. When my Master and I entered into this kind of relationship, he posed the point that there is no "one and only" to me, which I accepted. When we proceeded I had ideas that he was just trying to be available for more subs. I went forward with dateing other Doms as that was what he wanted, and he stayed home, and took care of me. He went outside of our relationship only when he was 1300 miles away from me for 5 months. We went through a lot of drama during our whole relaitonship and at any moment he could've said "I don't like this let's go back". He didn't and we went through a lot of pain including ending our relationship over the emotional issues.

I am very happy with the way our relationship is now. We are poly, our communication levels are incredible, and I am the happiest I have been in my whole life. This took a lot of work and spiritual growth. If you are not sure about this kind of life, and you go for it without being ready, the biggest risk is that you are going to deal with a lot of pain and possibly loose the person you are with. From what I am reading in your post, I think you are dealing with plenty of pain right now that you are still learning from.

What he is doing with asking you deep questions while you are in sub-space is really unfair as well. Perhaps he is so afraid of the questions he is asking he doesn't dare ask about them while his partner has all her senses? Who knows? Anyway, my recommendation to that is to discuss with him when appropriate times are to discuss such matters.

If you want to run, it is your life. Usually people run because the partner they have chosen is bringing up too many emotional issues for them to deal with. It is up to you to run or not. If you run, you will have to repeat whatever this man is teaching you later. If you don't, you will learn what you need to learn and will be in a position to end the relationship when it is over.

Good luck to you, I hope I have helped.

pixie

_____________________________

**please note that I realize that I am just as full of crap as everybody else, feel free to remind me anytime**

If you understand it.......you've missed the point.

[image]http://img33.exs.cx/img33/2424/pixieunleashed-2.jpg[/image]

(in reply to golden1)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/6/2004 6:40:42 AM

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Joined: 4/17/2004
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Hi golden1,

I'm not a master either, but I felt I had to respond.

IMO, when someone asks consent of you while you're in subspace, you CANNOT give it. Your partner is violating your trust here. And he knows it. He asked you to consent to poly (or bi?) in subspace because he's too cowardly to discuss these issues with you when you DO have consent.

What really worries me is that you seem to believe the time you have invested in him is relevant to your actions. It doesn't matter how long you've been together. If he's now deceitful, he's deceitful, and it's not likely to get better. Staying with him MERELY because you have time invested in him will surely result in his abusing you. Either you trust him again (through face-to-face confrontations and discussions where he aknowledges his failure) or you leave.

As cowardly as he seems, I doubt confrontation will restore your trust. In that case, please just think about the wonderful time you DID have together for awhile and move on to someone who will respect you enough to comply with some of the unwritten, common sense rules of safety in the dangerous art of bdsm.

JMO,

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]

(in reply to golden1)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/6/2004 7:23:44 AM

Posts: 237
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: January

IMO, when someone asks consent of you while you're in subspace, you CANNOT give it. Your partner is violating your trust here.

So true. There's nothing really wrong with him wanting the non-exclusive relationship but there is something wrong with how he seems to be going about getting it.

I've been poly for about a decade and a half now and trust and communication are vital. If his actions made you angry then you need to make darn sure he knows it. As a sub, you might need to do so in a respectful way, but just make sure you do it. If not, you will only resent him later and he will only continue to piss you off.

You could leave, as has been suggested. 2 years seems like a lot but a lifetime is a lot more. Staying in a bad place even longer just because you have inertia isn't good.

You could also decide to let him have what he wants and re-negotiate your relationship. If you do, you can't do it halfway. Either it becomes acceptable and you accept it, or you "put your foot down" and don't accept it. Trying to be a "good sub" and take it when it's not acceptable to you will kill the relationship in the end.

Third option is what you seem to already be trying to do. Talk to him and work it out. He already admitted that addressing important issues at the wrong time was sleazy, right? That's a good step. Not good enough unless he agrees not to do it anymore. Express to him how important (or not important) it is to you to be exclusive. Also explain that he's undermined your confidence in him and ask him if he's willing to accept that he might have to work of building that back up again. Either he's dedicated enough to you to take responsibility aand move on, or not. If not. then your back to option one or option two.

I hate it when people try to analize another's whole situation based on one short letter online so I'm not going to try to tell you what your situation is, but I should mention that one thing you wrote stood out as a bit of a "red flag" that you might want to look at further. If he told her all about you but didn't tell you all about her, that implies (doesn't prove) that he might be more into her than you and be trying to use "poly" the way many people (mistakenly) do, to get the partner he really wants without having to bother with dumping the one he already has. I can't know if that is the case here, but if you discover that it is, leave, cut your losses, and don't look back.

We experienced a lot of the same pitfalls you seem to be experiencing in our early days. It wasn't always easy but we learned and grew and it all worked out. It's not impossible, but it is difficult and requires that BOTH partners want to make it work out for everyone.

Leto

(in reply to January)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/6/2004 11:29:23 AM

Posts: 241
Status: offline

I agree with the general trend of the earlier posters.

I can't tell anyone else what it means to be a Dom, but I can say what it means for me. Although you will find plenty of stuff which says that a slave's role is to be used by their owner for the owner's selfish pleasure, to exchanged, given away or discarded at the owner's whim, I can't say that I would want to act that way myself. I see my role as being half of a symbiotic relationship, and that it is my duty to help any sub/slave of mine to grow as a person. This is not an easy task, since it means that I have to know my sub/slave's preferences and limits (and what will happen by pushing them) at least as well as she does. Her limits keep shifting under gentle pressure, not always in exactly the way I expect, but I've never heard a safe word from her, and I'm sure that I never will. She's gone from vanilla and strictly monogamous to a bi bondage fiend who likes to be shared, and has done so without trauma. At the moment, her reaction to my taking another sub could range from wild enthusiasm to thinking about walking out, it would all depend on the sub, the details and the approach I used. It would be vastly harder if either of the subs considered themselves to be entirely heterosexual, for example. Based on my own experiences with polyamory, I see huge challenges in trying to spring a poly arrangement on someone where there will be neither sharing of the new partner, or even (from what I gather) any statement that you are, and will remain, the "primary." If you were extremely attracted to the proposed new submissive, and were assigned the task of supervising the new submissive, I suspect that you'd be feeling more receptive to the idea. Or even if you were in some way involved in the selection process. I see a lot of positive paths left untaken in this process. Instead, you are being told that you are losing something that you have had for years, and it is being done by unilateral fiat, without either consent or consultation, and it is not at all clear that the motivation behind this is to help you grow. And you're not even a slave, just a submissive.

It sounds to me like some very big things are being skipped in your training and growth as a sub, enroute to this proposed destination. Since you identify yourself as being straight, it would seem unlikely that there would be anything for you in the addition of another sub, at least yet. Because there doesn't seem to have been work on dealing with jealousy, his timing again seems poor. And everybody's different, his plan might not be something that would ever work well for you. While it might possibly be able to work in some context or another, the time to discuss it is not when you're in subspace. It could be when you're completely at ease and "off duty," or it could be when you're under orders to speak honestly and completely about your feelings. But not subspace. That's a little like getting someone extremely intoxicated in order to get into their pants, in my opinion. Kind of circumventing the consent issue, rather than dealing with it in a patient, responsible and mature way.

Obviously there needs to be better communication. I wouldn't want to guess about whether you're going to be able to work things out, or if he will do what he feels like regardless. Everybody has to decide for themselves what they are willing to put up with in a relationship. "Serious" polyamory can be extremely difficult for enthusiastic and comitted participants. With unwilling participants, the whole idea gives me a really bad feeling. I hope that you find the happiest possible way out of this bind, whatever that may prove to be.

< Message edited by NoCalOwner -- 9/6/2004 11:37:55 AM >

(in reply to WayHome)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/6/2004 12:47:38 PM

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Here is another instance of a sub ignoring the big red flag flapping there in front of her face. He isn't treating you well. He doesn't seem to care about your happiness or feelings. And it seems as it continues this way no matter what you tell him.
A relationship is supposed to be a positive and uplifting experience for both people. For you this one isn't. After two years it won't get any better. Why in the world are you sticking around?

(in reply to golden1)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/6/2004 1:31:41 PM

Posts: 241
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Whether it's one of the many times I agree with you, Estring, or one of the very few times that I don't, I always love the way you cut right to the chase.

(in reply to Estring)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/6/2004 3:31:40 PM

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/24/2004
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I have to say it has to date it has been good till this other sub came along. I was growing as was he.

The end is here and it is always harder to end something that was going very well. I have choosen between thinking very hard on this and attempting to work on it with him. That there is only a few ways to end this.

The best being a clean shot and ending it totally. He and i go our seprate ways, maybe staying friends. The other is release him from our agreement and try to save the BDSM part and not have sex. (Which means i would always be on my guard.) Which is setting it up to fail.

Either i have to choose or he does.

Thank you all for the advice.

(in reply to golden1)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/6/2004 7:26:26 PM

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Joined: 3/30/2004
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It was not a good thing for him to bring this up when you were in subspace and it sound like he planned it that way so you would agree in subspace. I had a situation with a Dom who tried to control a sub by keeping her in subspace then tried to get her to accept his collar while she is in subspace. This took place during a play party and we thought he would be honorable. We learn our lesson the hard way and to this day we will not leave a sub alone with him. To me this is like being raped for you would agree to any thing while you are in subspace. That is a very weak pace to be in when something serious need to be discuss. He should have waited when you came down and talk about it to me this is not a very good practice for him to do with you. You need time to come down from your emotional up evil and relax. I would wait a week before you talk to him about it so you could be completely out of subspace and think about it. Good luck with it.

(in reply to golden1)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/7/2004 6:57:42 AM

Posts: 689
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Florida
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Please forgive my post in the Master's section. I feel for you golden1. It is always hard to end a relationship. I am sure you see the writing on the wall. My experience has taught me to cut away clean. Why would you play with someone you cannot trust? Try this: get all his pictures together and any inexpensive (you can pawn expensive stuff) gifts and put them together in a metal trash can, then put a match to them. (make sure you are away from any flammable items or wind) As you watch the smoke billowing out, chant to yourself, "be gone with all bad feelings related to ________." It especially helps to have a couple friends with you when you do it. I'm serious, it works!! JMO

Take care!!
ann

PS: I edited this to make sure you understand, golden, that I am not making light of your pain. I truly wish for the best, whichever you choose.

< Message edited by sweetpleaser -- 9/7/2004 7:02:09 AM >

(in reply to golden1)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/7/2004 11:15:52 PM

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Joined: 8/26/2004
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The kicker to the orginal post was about how long its taken to trust him....

now assuming he's not a fool he knows this and is still capitalizing on you when you are in his grip --there are times this is a good thing to do..when the walls are down and the only way to get to the 'meat' of the sub, buuuuut, him doing it for himself ain't one of them times.

I agree with the cowardly comments....

small story, a girl I had dommed for fun..nothing mutual outside the enjoyment of the life, we both knew it going in, but she called about a year & 1/2 after we parted ways, saying she had gotten into situation like the one you described and he was slowly turning bunny-cooker on her as she pulled away.

I rode up there, committed a B&E and broke in like Linc Hayes, for once the god(s) of timing were working...it's amazing the persuaive appeal a guy in riding leathers and a broken jack bottle can have on a 5'4" "dom". We had a long talk, he picked himself up a couple of times, the cops came, she bailed me out and rode back south with me.

Being a sub is not a lience to violate them...it can be a great tool, but the way its used matters. If it's a bad touch..listen to the voice in the back of your head.

(in reply to sweetpleaser)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/8/2004 6:43:02 AM

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Joined: 7/1/2004
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golden1: i think you're making the right decision and i will to you all the strength necessary to follow through on this. i know it's an incredibly hard and heart rending thing to do but i would agree that it's necessary for your sake to walk away (and perhaps He'll think twice about how He handles those in His possession in the future because of this as well).

sweetpleaser:

quote:

(you can pawn expensive stuff)

*laughing* gawd, just gotta love you - that's great!

_____________________________

Wilted petals fall from a rose like bitters tears wrung from a heart whose dreams have shattered. What hope for the future can be seen by eyes that are darkened with sorrow neverending?

i'm not manic-depressive, i just have an elliptical personality

(in reply to ShrewWhisperer)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/9/2004 5:06:28 AM

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Joined: 2/24/2004
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Just a update to those that helped me along the way. I still do not understand why this has come about. But it has.

He and i meet spoke, then spoke some more. I still am confused and hurt he would do something like this. he says he knows he made a mistake. But thinks it was the only way to do it so I would not run. He does know me pretty well. The other thing that is wrong here is he is not seeing me as adult, Or he was not seeing me as an adult. He says he is now doing that.

He finally took a stand and put down his own personal rule. That all involded must show test results. But that still does not solve my problem with trusting him. As something was lost. When i meet him i did so as if it was the first time again. I had safe calls in place. It was a public place. Ect ect. I am sure you get the ideal.

Maybe part of this for me is old garbage, or just my head saying these are red flags. I don't know. I do know i am taking time for me now. For my wants and desires, i plan do not plan on doing anything rash. But i do plan on finding out what excately i want in any D/s relationship.

Thank you all for your support and help in this.

(in reply to golden1)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/10/2004 4:34:06 PM

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Joined: 7/11/2004
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Ummm...did I miss the part of this post where it said you had a talk about how you felt, and how you expressed your feelings on this matter and how he listened.

please clarify,

pixie

_____________________________

**please note that I realize that I am just as full of crap as everybody else, feel free to remind me anytime**

If you understand it.......you've missed the point.

[image]http://img33.exs.cx/img33/2424/pixieunleashed-2.jpg[/image]

(in reply to golden1)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/11/2004 9:47:45 PM

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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The word is spelled " weapon"

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to golden1)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/11/2004 9:51:17 PM

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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Hello,

I have to agree with Estring et al, I am assuming you have negotiated agreements and he is attempting to renegotiate tham at times I would consider inappropriate to ask a submissive.

I would suggest that you have to ask yourself if he is worth it, and if he is then you have to deal with it, and if he is not it is time to find a new place to hang your hat.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: submission used as a wopon (sp?) - 9/11/2004 9:52:47 PM

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I need to know if anyone else would or has done this, and how if at all it can be gotten around.

Hello,

I have issues with this sentence.

If you are not comfortable with it there is no way it can be "gotten around."

Good luck!

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to golden1)

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