RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you?

RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (Full Version)

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angeldmort -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (1/30/2010 2:04:09 AM)
I obviously needed this thread. I have too many conflicting thoughts to have anything I can say clearly. Must think about this. Or maybe I'm just tired. Easy remedy to the one, eh?

Andalusite -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (1/30/2010 4:34:52 PM)
I dislike whining and pushing, and am generally not much into begging (from the submissive or bottom). I'll often indulge a request, if it sounds like fun, but I'm likely to combine it with other things I enjoy. I'm not usually willing to follow a script unless it's my idea. I haven't encountered the instant-submit/grovelling in men I've played with or been in relationships with, though I've had plenty of e-mails with it back when I was looking (and occasionally now that I'm not). On the bottoming and submitting end of things, most of the people I've played with or been in relationships have been pretty happy with my style, but I have had to make some adjustments. Some are more open to suggestions or requests than others, some like me initiating while others prefer that I wait. My previous dominant loved to have me beg (mostly for him to stop rather than to do things), and I found it difficult unless I genuinely disliked what we were doing. We compromised by him doing something else I disliked as well as the thing he wanted me to beg about. He did complain once or twice that he was hitting me as hard as he could and I was glowing at him, but he was mostly teasing (and if I did react in a more positive way than he actually wanted, he knew how to fix that). MsHValentine, I've dated a few bottoms who weren't selfish or self-indulgent at all. They didn't make demands, they were great guys. They weren't at all fixated on being controlled, they just wanted me to be happy and satisfied.

eax -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/11/2010 3:56:49 PM)
Subs - do you think your "style" as a bottom is something you control consciously - or is it out of your control? Have you ever had to change the way you react in order to please your top? Yes, but only to a point, it is my nature to want to please, so I figure out what my D wants and then try to deliver it. I do admit to being bratty at times and I have pushed unwisely, but know what'll happen, I don't get a kick out of being punished, but I know that sometimes my D wants me to push, as she finds it stimulating or interesting, I'm not always comfortable about it, but I will do it. It's only enjoyable for the (insert patience of D's time here) amount of time I get during that actively bratty period, it doesn't usually last long and its never worth it, but invariably it won't always stop me repeating the same mistake. I've certainly had a few times where I've changed my mind about an approach though. I like to think of it as more playful ;) I like to think I'm good at the loophole thing, but ultimately it does not matter. I do get genuinely afraid, and on occasion terrified of the possible outcomes, nervousness comes into it too, I am a service orientated sub, the pain thing for me isn't enjoyable, I'm still in some awe and shock of seeing what other subs can accept, though I've manged to survive so far. My D D knows exactly what makes me the most nervous, so it only requires a gentle reminder of that, I know sometimes they are doing the dirty harry on me, and i have to make that choice. But I think since they don't always know which road I'll choose, thats what makes it fun for them. I have discovered 'sub space' and that has helped me cope. I am a submissive male, I have no problems with it, as I do like to serve, as said I don't enjoy the pain, but I try not to complain afterwards, or at all if I detect a certain mood. I am afraid of public humiliation, terrified of CBT, etc, but so far i've been lucky, I don't feel I need to fear something to control my limits though, as I typically don't feel like pushing. However there are times I have done a few irrational things, enough to raise the D's blood, but I took what was coming to me. I don't know what my motiviation is, I don't really think it was anything other than just being emotional and a brat. At the munches I'm nervous and the other D's pick up on it, they're pretty good with me, most find it amusing and enjoy telling me stories of the things they do, no doubt for the look on my face. Even writing this is a bit akward, I've rewritten it a few times, so I apologise if it becomes fragmented. So the short answer is, yes I try to anticipate what my top wants, and sometimes that means dealing with things I wouldn't normally deal well with, mostly learning to control other the reactions and just trust, I have no safe words. Thanks for reading.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/11/2010 4:58:54 PM)
And thanks for sharing your perspective eax, it was truly appreciated. Welcome to the message boards. - LA

kTez8 -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 11:10:51 AM)
Sub's perspective, I think how a bottom acts can be controlled to an extent, however I also believe that the base style, is a reflection of personality. I think of myself as someone who likes to please, I want to do good things for my friends and people I care for. So in my bottoming it comes out. I like to do act in a way I think the domme wants. I don't really enjoy debasing myself too much for a Top. It's actually something I'm working through as a Bottom, I'm a proud person but I like to sub and I do like to please. I like to say that I work for smiles. The best feeling is getting someone to smile for you. One last thought. Isn't the "insta-worm" another word for the "do-me sub"?

eax -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 12:19:12 PM)
Thanks LadyAngelika, I had to write a 1,000 word essay on Mars, apparently because of a post on this forum, curiosity got the better of me, so I came for a look.

Tantriqu -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 12:27:38 PM)
The answer is in the question 'does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you?': never more than once! I become very aroused by the submission of a good man. I feel 'goodbye wide-on' upon realising I'm dealing with a bottom, let alone a self-indulgent one. Sub: anywhere, anytime. Bottom: nowhere, no how.

catize -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 12:40:25 PM)
quote: I wouldn't expect a Bottom to not be self-indulgent. I agree. The definition of 'bottom' means one is into sensation play in the way said bottom wants it.

PeonForHer -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 2:14:13 PM)
I just don't enjoy basically 'barely participating' in a man's instant-submission by being a prop OK - nothing of what you've said surprises me. I've come to assume that a dominant woman wants a man to submit - not already to have 'submitted' before she's even even started, nor try to 'suck' the domiance out of you at the time. But what about the opposite? Supposing he's not 'begging', but growling? Not in outright fury - of the 'safe word' level - but because, regardless of him enjoying it underneath,it's somewhat it's a trigger reaction in him to growl when, he's hit (for instance).

AAkasha -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 3:11:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize quote: I wouldn't expect a Bottom to not be self-indulgent. I agree. The definition of 'bottom' means one is into sensation play in the way said bottom wants it. But a good bottom tries to please the sadist/top/femdom, and that requires him understanding what it is she NEEDS from that interaction. Is it to make him cry? Is it to make her feel guilty? Is it to suffer in silence? Is it for him to resist? It varies depending on the woman, and depending on her mood. A good bottom is part mind reader, and is DEFINITELY very clued in on his partners reactions, body language and arousal. Not just off in his own submissive la-la land and later saying, "oh sorry, I didn't even notice you were bored, I was in subspace." Akasha

SaharahEve -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 3:27:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize I agree. The definition of 'bottom' means one is into sensation play in the way said bottom wants it. I also agree with you. I associate Bottoms (not submissive-Bottoms) as having an interest in "being done", rather than in pleasing.

kTez8 -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 5:15:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SaharahEve quote: ORIGINAL: catize I agree. The definition of 'bottom' means one is into sensation play in the way said bottom wants it. I also agree with you. I associate Bottoms (not submissive-Bottoms) as having an interest in "being done", rather than in pleasing. quote: I agree. The definition of 'bottom' means one is into sensation play in the way said bottom wants it. I also agree with you. I associate Bottoms (not submissive-Bottoms) as having an interest in "being done", rather than in pleasing. Maybe I am misunderstanding you but, I do not completely agree with your view that a "bottom" is inherently selfish. I am still learning and have submissive tendencies, but I have come to associate myself with being a "bottom" in the sense that I enjoy "receiving". Yes, I would like things done my way, but relationships are give and take, so I expect to at least try and give as must enjoyment as I receive. [8D] that's my 2 cents. don't hate me please [8\|]

PeonForHer -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 5:31:16 PM)
FR Excellent! This is what I love about the Mistress forum. Proper arguments about real, fundamental things that matter: such as the true definitions of terms like 'slave', 'submissive' and 'bottom'. This is the very stuff of life.

catize -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 7:29:20 PM)
quote: Maybe I am misunderstanding you but, I do not completely agree with your view that a "bottom" is inherently selfish. I am still learning and have submissive tendencies, but I have come to associate myself with being a "bottom" in the sense that I enjoy "receiving". In reality, we all do wiitwd for selfish reasons; if we didn't enjoy it, if it didn't fulfill us, if we didn't gain something from it, we wouldn't do it. I started out believing I was submissive, but it was about sensation play (I was, most likely, the kind of bottom that the OP is unhappy with!) I gather from this discussion that the problem arises when it is only about MEMEME! Instead of USUSUS!

LadyAngelika -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 7:36:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eax Thanks LadyAngelika, I had to write a 1,000 word essay on Mars, apparently because of a post on this forum, curiosity got the better of me, so I came for a look. Context please? :-) - LA

Elisabella -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/12/2010 10:21:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize quote: I wouldn't expect a Bottom to not be self-indulgent. I agree. The definition of 'bottom' means one is into sensation play in the way said bottom wants it. Agreed - to me, a "bottom" is a person who enjoys receiving the sensations that a "top" gives, and generally a bottom/top relationship is based in shared kinks and shared enjoyment of the same activities. This is contrasted to a "submissive" who is a person who submits to the will of a "dominant," who tends to subdue their own desires in order to please and serve the "dominant" half of the relationship. It's possible to be a bottom, and have no desire whatsoever to submit - a top/bottom egalitarian relationship would work, because it's not a power exchange relationship. IMO the terms should be clear otherwise you'll have a dominanttelling a bottom "You're making your desires just as important as my own! You're such a do-me sub!" and the bottom replies "what the hell, when did I say I was a sub??"

eax -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/14/2010 4:05:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Context please? :-) - LA Apparently there was a thread about people contacting D's basically asking for sex favours and they'll serve them in anyway etc, and a D replied asking for a 1000 word essay on Mars. So far none of the people asked had been so keen on that idea. I don't know where the thread was, but this site was mentioned as the source. So someone else I know had read the forums and thought 'There is a good idea'. Unfortunately for me, I sort of cheated and used the Windows MS Word word count tool, when it was checked with Mac Word, it was 1001 words. I did recheck and Windows Word was indeed wrong...... However I'm still a PC.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/14/2010 4:13:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eax quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Context please? :-) - LA Apparently there was a thread about people contacting D's basically asking for sex favours and they'll serve them in anyway etc, and a D replied asking for a 1000 word essay on Mars. So far none of the people asked had been so keen on that idea. I don't know where the thread was, but this site was mentioned as the source. So someone else I know had read the forums and thought 'There is a good idea'. Unfortunately for me, I sort of cheated and used the Windows MS Word word count tool, when it was checked with Mac Word, it was 1001 words. I did recheck and Windows Word was indeed wrong...... However I'm still a PC. I guess everyone has their methods. I wouldn't ask anyone to write me an essay to prove that they were interested in me for real. If he piqued my interest, I would communicate with him and ask him specific questions to find out more about him. It erks me when I hear Dominant women make men jump through hoops to prove something or another. I think that should be a red light for submissive men. - LA

eax -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/14/2010 5:13:40 PM)
Mine wasn't for an introduction.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Does a self-indulgent bottom frustrate you? (2/14/2010 5:28:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eax Mine wasn't for an introduction. Oh? Was it for a sexual favour as the elusive thread requested? If not, praytell what was the reason that you had to write such an essay? - LA

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