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You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 12:43:25 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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into paying taxes you do not owe!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7521758492370018023

This has been on here for over 3 years but for those of you who have not seen it this guy covers some great ground in how NOT to file.....that does not mean I am saying do not file taxes for those who already had such evil thoughts.


Theft By Deception - Deciphering The Federal Income Tax
The misrepresentation and misapplication of the United States federal income tax constitutes the largest acquisition of wealth by way of deception in history. A handful of government lawyers fabricated an intricate maze of legalese which created a perfectly Constitutional tax (a tax on income derived from certain types of international and foreign commerce), but which at the same time could easily be misread to give the impression that the income of all Americans is subject to the tax. For decades, the American people have been "conditioned" to believe that the income tax applies to all income and trained to pay "their" taxes. All the while, however, hidden in a previously nearly universally misunderstood (therefore misapplied) section of the law known as Subchapter N, Section 861 was the truth that the income tax is NOT a direct tax on incomes but is an indirect tax imposed only on those individuals engaged in certain types of international and possessions commerce. Most Americans are engaged in purely domestic commerce (commerce that occurs entirely within and between the 50 states). Subchapter N proves that domestic income received by residents of the United States (most incomes) is not taxed, due to Constitutional restrictions on Congress' power to tax. The misrepresentation and misapplication of the United States federal income tax constitutes the largest acquisition of wealth by way of deception in history. A handful of government lawyers fabricated an intricate maze of legalese which created a perfectly Constitutional tax (a tax on income derived from certain types of international and foreign commerce), but which at the same time could easily be misread to give the impression that the income of all Americans is subject to the tax. For decades, the American people have been "conditioned" to believe that the income tax applies to all income and trained to pay "their" taxes. All the while, however, hidden in a previously nearly universally misunderstood (therefore misapplied) section of the law known as Subchapter N, Section 861 was the truth that the income tax is NOT a direct tax on incomes but is an indirect tax imposed only on those individuals engaged in certain types of international and possessions commerce. Most Americans are engaged in pur...all » The misrepresentation and misapplication of the United States federal income tax constitutes the largest acquisition of wealth by way of deception in history. A handful of government lawyers fabricated an intricate maze of legalese which created a perfectly Constitutional tax (a tax on income derived from certain types of international and foreign commerce), but which at the same time could easily be misread to give the impression that the income of all Americans is subject to the tax. For decades, the American people have been "conditioned" to believe that the income tax applies to all income and trained to pay "their" taxes. All the while, however, hidden in a previously nearly universally misunderstood (therefore misapplied) section of the law known as Subchapter N, Section 861 was the truth that the income tax is NOT a direct tax on incomes but is an indirect tax imposed only on those individuals engaged in certain types of international and possessions commerce. Most Americans are engaged in purely domestic commerce (commerce that occurs entirely within and between the 50 states). Subchapter N proves that domestic income received by residents of the United States (most incomes) is not taxed, due to Constitutional restrictions on Congress' power to tax


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session
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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 12:51:56 PM   
DomKen


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Same lie different day.

This is the discredited 861 argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_861_argument

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 1:25:08 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Same lie different day.

This is the discredited 861 argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_861_argument


thats bullshit
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 2:08:41 PM   
mnottertail


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Oh, Yah, subchapter a not subchapter n.

done deal.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 2:41:21 PM   
OttersSwim


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Gosh ya'know who wouldn't want to have a neat way to get out of paying taxes!  Without getting into the legal or constitutional arguments for paying taxes or not, I will simply say that attempting this is financial suicide.

I had a good friend who avoided the IRS using these arguments for about 3 years.  That was five years ago and he is still trying to get the IRS liens off his credit report, they garnished his wages, he lost clients who were contacted by the IRS looking for monies or assets...all in all, an extremely negative experience and guess what?  He is still paying it all back, plus interest and penalties. 

A credit report is a pretty standard part of the background checks that many companies do today - an IRS lien is a giant red flag to a prospective employer.  If the IRS contacts your current employer to garnish, you can bet it is going to raise red flags there too.

For a potential creditor, it is the kiss of death - even if you get it "released", it will haunt you.  It is one of the hardest items to remove from a credit report.

If you try this, expect to put yourself into a cash only economy, own nothing of value, and potentially have your job put in jeopardy.

Listen, and understand. The IRS is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.



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I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 2:50:44 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Same lie different day.

This is the discredited 861 argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_861_argument


thats bullshit
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/


Wrong as always. USC 26, subtitle A, Chapter 1, Subchapter N, part 1, 861 is right there:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00000861----000-.html

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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 3:23:35 PM   
Brain


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They can do whatever they want, you can’t fight city hall. You need to be a CPA or tax lawyer for this.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 3:34:15 PM   
AnimusRex


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Gotta love this.
So there are a group of people who choose to live in the most prosperous nation on earth, partaking of its abundent blessings, among them being the surpassing safety and liberty of knowing you will never in your lifetime have to worry about being invaded and killed by a foreign nation;
Knowing that you are surrounded by a velvety soft cradle to grave governmental system of police, fire, hospitals, of streets and highways and airports and harbors of a social welfare system and court system that buffers you from the hard edges of the economic jungle.

And after taking, taking, taking, after suckling at the teat of this system all year long, when April 15 arrives, they lay on the floor kicking and screaming "NO NO NO I don't wanna pay for any of it"

Fuck. At least once a week I read in the paper about a 22 year old kid who gets his arm blown off, or a piece of shrapnel embedded in his skull, or comes home in a body bag, as part of his service to his country.

And now I see on tee vee some teabagger wearing a tricorner hat whining because he is asked for 28% of his net taxable income. While wearing a God-damned flag lapel pin, and a "Freedom isn't Free" T-shirt.

Fuck. I can't think of what else to say, just fuck.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 3:40:36 PM   
Termyn8or


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Otter, whether you believe all this or not is irrelevant, but your friend might be sitting pretty right now.

Now this is not some disputable archaic code some people use, this is not pie in the sky it is right there in the IRS code. Your friend is subject to the code, how he got that way is none of my business. However you mention that he lost clients when the IRS went snooping. Well if they tell anyone that you are under investigation you get $100,000 per instance. That is their own rule. One person several years ago got $1.3 million from the IRS for doing just that. They notified 13 people, the guy proved it and the judge simply took out a calculator and multiplied 100,000 by 13 and yielded his decision forthwith.

Now I know Ken is going to have a blast with this thread like he always does, but nobody can debunk what I just typed and it is not subject to interpretation. You said three years ? That should put most if not all of those infractions within the statute of limitations. Get a good lawyer for this, I am assuming it's three years but I am not 100% sure. I am sure though that they owe him a hundred grand for every time they opened up their mouth to the wrong person.

I am making this short lest to be called a hijack. But this is not bullshit, get thee friend to a good tax lawyer. As to the subject of the thread, how come IRS agants themselves have begun to question this ? Two have completely switched sides and now engage in educating the people about the issues raised in the OP. These are people trained in legalese and everything, and if an IRS agent can't find a law, who will ? Who would have more motivation ?

So to the natsayers; don't argue with me, argue with them.

T

(in reply to OttersSwim)
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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 3:44:32 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
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From: Somewhere Texas
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Tell you what real one, use the information you have posted, send a letter to the IRS telling them why you are not paying your taxes, and then tell us how you do.



_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 3:56:18 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Gotta love this.
So there are a group of people who choose to live in the most prosperous nation on earth, partaking of its abundent blessings, among them being the surpassing safety and liberty of knowing you will never in your lifetime have to worry about being invaded and killed by a foreign nation;
Knowing that you are surrounded by a velvety soft cradle to grave governmental system of police, fire, hospitals, of streets and highways and airports and harbors of a social welfare system and court system that buffers you from the hard edges of the economic jungle.

And after taking, taking, taking, after suckling at the teat of this system all year long, when April 15 arrives, they lay on the floor kicking and screaming "NO NO NO I don't wanna pay for any of it"

Fuck. At least once a week I read in the paper about a 22 year old kid who gets his arm blown off, or a piece of shrapnel embedded in his skull, or comes home in a body bag, as part of his service to his country.

And now I see on tee vee some teabagger wearing a tricorner hat whining because he is asked for 28% of his net taxable income. While wearing a God-damned flag lapel pin, and a "Freedom isn't Free" T-shirt.

Fuck. I can't think of what else to say, just fuck.




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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 4:00:10 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
....technically the tax IS illegal.

as to the soldier what type of man would sign up today to serve?   

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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 4:03:39 PM   
Termyn8or


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"most prosperous nation on earth"

Just where have you been ?

T

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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 4:06:43 PM   
pahunkboy


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Real -this crowd is no where near even close to considering your premise.

This crowd obeys mainstream news as the undisputed facts on anything to do with governance in America.  My cat would be easier to convince then this peanut gallery.

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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 4:18:15 PM   
InControl754


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Joined: 12/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


So why don't you leave for another country more to your liking, sweetcheeks?

OH! But remember, in many other countries, talking bad about the government there will get you a trip to jail - or you just might disappear if you raise too many eyebrows (or unibrows, depending where you moved).

You are just sad because you don't make more money at 7-11. Get a better job and the taxes won't matter to you.

Go volunteer somewhere like a soup kitchen for a couple of months to see how people who CAN’T pay taxes live – then come back here bellyaching about it.

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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 4:20:17 PM   
littlewonder


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Gotta love the ones who are always trying to get around paying taxes, looking for every loophole possible. Let me know how that works for ya ok???

<waits to hear the results>

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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 4:36:54 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
My cat would be easier to convince then this peanut gallery.


Probably because the rest of us don't have talking cats.

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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 4:42:05 PM   
EbonyWood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
My cat would be easier to convince then this peanut gallery.


Probably because the rest of us don't have talking cats.


I'm thinking the cat could provide better evidence.
 
Im sure there was something about noise coming into the house yesterday. The issue shoulda been the noise leaving the house.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 4:45:33 PM   
Termyn8or


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Recently Nancy S. Bergeson was strangled after successfully defending a tax fraud case. Not long before that another successful attorney was jailed and is being denied medical care. These are people who operated within the system. Both have beaten the IRS in court, something that is totally legal.

Just try to find Wilhem E. Schmitt, you would have better luck looking for Danny Green or Jimmy Hoffa.

A long time ago we didn't get many peeks inside the iron curtain, but on one instance a Russian citizen said "We have a gangster government". Now it is the US with a gangster government. Not sure exactly how they are doing over there right now, but it's quite clear that we are headed to the bottom of the heap.

So don't get yourself hurt over this. You think they're not watching ? The hell they ain't. You know who you are and you know that most people do not want to listen for various reasons, and among them might be self preservation. Many do not know of these obscure provisions in the law, used by the super rich and the few others that find out. But they do know the might of the government. Additionally agenteur of the government might be among the members here. I saw no provision in the TOS that prohibits government employees from participating here.

In other words - don't become a target.

T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 1/26/2010 4:47:52 PM >

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RE: You have been deceived! (imagine that!) - 1/26/2010 4:56:37 PM   
luckydawg


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But in reality Bergeson (not bereson, do you guys always miss spell the names on purpose) lost the case. No one has ever won a case using the "USC 26, subtitle A, Chapter 1, Subchapter N, part 1, 861" defense. Not a single person ever. Thats reality.

Now Term is a bright guy, I guess he realises he can slip it by some people(some on here are not that bright). OF course the IRS has lost some cases. OF course they make mistakes, adn agents have engaged in Criminal acts. and they get caught, and lose in court sometimes. No one is at all denying that the IRS has never lost a case.

But they have won every case where the " USC 26, subtitle A, Chapter 1, Subchapter N, part 1, 861" defense that this thread is about, was used. IT is absolute bullshit.

And the proof is that in the OP Realone, makes a disclaimer. HE knows its Bullshit.

But he (term also) also knows that a few folks on here are dim enought to buy it.

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I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

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