A Question of Ettiquette

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Voodali -> A Question of Ettiquette (1/27/2010 1:58:50 PM)
During the journey of seeking the right boy for me, I have received several messages. While the vast majority were inadequate or insulting, there were a few that stood out as polite, intelligent and showing evidence of having read my profile. In a few cases, the letters have been wonderful, but the attached pics have been such that I knew that no matter how well intentioned a boy he was, I simply couldn't feel attraction to him. This leaves one in an awkward position. Surely a boy who took the time to follow instructions and be polite should be rewarded with a reply. But if he's...well... unattractive enough that you can't see yourself wanting to work with him...and you don't want to lead him on, what do you do ? Do you come right out and tell him that you're not attracted to him ? Do you play the bitch card and crush his feelings or manipulate him for personal gain ? Do you accept coffee with him anyway, in hopes that you can overcome your shallowness ? Do you plan to give him a makeover and mould him into something pretty ? Do you not respond to his amazingly coherent letter ? Do you lie ? I'm curious if other Dommes have a formula for dealing with this.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/27/2010 2:06:54 PM)
I am not a domme, but I get such messages. How I deal with it is by thanking them for the message but saying that they are not what I am looking for in a relationship sense, generally people are good about it, occasionally people keep asking again and again why, they just get blocked

joether -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/27/2010 2:34:42 PM)
That is indeed a hard question, Voodali. If a picture they show in their profile raises questions, then ask the questions. Maybe there is an innocent reason for the picture. Maybe their thoughts on SM or D/s are more a vanilla's then a cholocates. But unless you ask, you will never know. If the answer is still not to your liking, no one is forcing you to assocate with that person. BDSM is all about consent. Hopefully this helps.

Silverbunny -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/27/2010 2:35:11 PM)
I think this follows the same etiquette as would follow if one was approached at a bar, or anywhere else by someone to whom they were not attracted. Something as simple as "I'm not interested" will usually suffice. If you want to be especially polite you can preface that with "Thanks for writing me". You don't owe anyone an explanation on why you're not interested, and frankly if they push you for one, then you're perfectly justified in telling them the truth; that you don't find them attractive, or that they're not what you're looking for.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/27/2010 2:56:54 PM)
"Thank you for your well composed letter; it is refreshing to get one. However, I don't feel that we will be compatible. I wish you the best in your search." This is what We've used for years. If they ask why they're not compatible, We are honest, but polite. Master Fire

LafayetteLady -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/27/2010 3:11:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Voodali Surely a boy who took the time to follow instructions and be polite should be rewarded with a reply. But if he's...well... unattractive enough that you can't see yourself wanting to work with him...and you don't want to lead him on, what do you do ? Do you come right out and tell him that you're not attracted to him ? Do you play the bitch card and crush his feelings or manipulate him for personal gain ? Do you accept coffee with him anyway, in hopes that you can overcome your shallowness ? Do you plan to give him a makeover and mould him into something pretty ? Do you not respond to his amazingly coherent letter ? Do you lie ? I'm curious if other Dommes have a formula for dealing with this. Is this really that difficult to figure out? Ok, so the guy is so unattractive that a whole bar full of liquor isn't going to make the poor fool look any better, but he wrote you a polite letter, was not intrusive or rude. Why would it occur to you to play the "bitch card," or worse manipulate him for personal gain? What does that say about you, as a domina? Basic etiquette says that you can either not respond at all (which when receiving a letter like you describe, in my opinion is totally lacking in etiquette) or you politely tell him that you aren't compatible. As everyone says, if he pushes the issue, then you can play the "bitch card" if you like. I really don't mean to sound rude, but is basic etiquette that difficult to grasp? When someone's only "offense" is that they are not attractive to you, I can't fathom why anyone would even consider responding in any way that was less polite than how they initiated contact with you.

DesFIP -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/27/2010 3:13:48 PM)
I'm sorry, I don't feel the necessary chemistry but good luck in your search.

Voodali -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/27/2010 3:34:30 PM)
In response to Lafayette, I can see how you could deduce from what I wrote that I was heartless, full of myself, an etiquette retard, and capable of sinking low enough to punish someone for being unattractive to me. I do not consider being ugly a crime, which is why it matters to me how I deal with it. I, myself am not a fashion model, and have often been on the wrong end of a rejection, which is why I give a crap how I handle this in the first place. Lest my sterling CM reputation be tarnished, I should probably clarify that the options I offered in my original post are not all ones that I would consider. I am curious how OTHERS deal with this situation.

LafayetteLady -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/27/2010 4:43:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Voodali In response to Lafayette, I can see how you could deduce from what I wrote that I was heartless, full of myself, an etiquette retard, and capable of sinking low enough to punish someone for being unattractive to me. I do not consider being ugly a crime, which is why it matters to me how I deal with it. I, myself am not a fashion model, and have often been on the wrong end of a rejection, which is why I give a crap how I handle this in the first place. Lest my sterling CM reputation be tarnished, I should probably clarify that the options I offered in my original post are not all ones that I would consider. I am curious how OTHERS deal with this situation. I appreciate the clarification Voodali. Yes, it did come off that way. To be honest, while you clarified your position, my opinion of anyone who would play the "bitch card" remains the same. I'm all for dealing with the "assholes" in any way one sees fit, whether they choose to be polite or play that bitch card. I maintain though that when someone has not behaved offensively, there is no reason to be offensive in a reply. I think that MasterFireMaam's standard response is about as perfect as one can get. It acknowledges that the correspondence was well written and appropriate (which I think can be helpful as they continue their search), and let's them know there is no compatibility in a polite non offensive manner. Personally, I hate when I would get those kinds of emails. You read it and become hopeful and then it is all dashed when you realize that you just can't muster up the attraction.

peppermint -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/27/2010 5:50:02 PM)
I can only reply by telling you a story I read in the biography of a man I read years ago. One of his good friends called him up to say he was getting married. His friend wanted everyone to meet his fiance. Well, when the author met this lady he was appalled. She was very homely and his friend was very handsome. He just knew his friend could have done much better. The wedding happened and years passed. The lady in question was a wonderful lady, very giving of herself to help others. The author realized that he now considered her one of the most attractive women he knew. She still looked the same, however, her wonderful personality overcame her lack facial beauty and made her very attractive to others. It's really your choice and your decision. If you just know this person and you could never find any common ground then it's best to write as kind a note as you can.

Sylverdawn -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/28/2010 6:43:02 AM)
I have a friend who says if you say YES to the universe the universe will give you what you need at the time.... First off if the person is local ..what harm does it hurt to meet and have coffee.. you might find he is charming attentive and useful to you... afterall this isNOT ALL about sex right... he might prove to be a good friend if not a play partner... My response would be... something like thank you for your thoughtfully composed letter. I would love to meet for coffee.. no expectations ... then if he is less than charming.. less that interesting as a person... A polite note saying after much thought I just dont think we would be a good match..thank you for your time.. I wish you well on your personal journey..

LadyPact -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/28/2010 6:52:16 AM)
There is nothing wrong with responding to such an email to say thank you for writing, but you are not interested. It's not like you have to be graphic in your reply to the tune of 'you're a nice person, but if we were going to play together, I'd have to put a bag over your head'. Many people need a physical attraction to someone in order to want to play with them. There's nothing wrong with that. At the same time, you don't especially have to be rude about it. A simple return email with the 'thanks, but no thanks' thing should be sufficient.

Voodali -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/28/2010 11:28:23 AM)
Thank you for your responses. While the "thanks but no thanks" letter seems he most mature and sensible, I guess I always fear the return letter asking "why no thanks ?", because then I have to come out and say it. I am quite happy to paddle someone until the skin breaks, or humiliate them in a way I know delights both of us, but emotional sadism is not for me. In the past, how I have dealt with it is to write letter praising the boy's attempt and telling him that despite the fact that he writes wonderfully, is intelligent and seems like a good candidate, I simply am not attracted to him (which I feel very shallow saying based on a photograph). I know that these sorts of rejections are forever remembered on some level, and can, depending on the person's temperament, eat away at self esteem. No one should be punished for putting themselves out there and trying to meet someone. I am tempted not to answer at all sometimes because everyone knows that a lot of profiles are fake or abandoned, so it would come as no surprise if no reply came. That said, many a beautiful person has sorely disappointed me, so I will meet a person who is not physically attractive. I just think it fair to let them know from the getgo that I probably will not develop any romantic or sexual feelings. Service doesn't have to be romantic or sexual, but that is what some boys, and ultimately I seek. I would be interested to know what the majority of boys themselves would prefer, clear, honest rejection, service with the knowledge that it could never be romantic or sexual or just no reply.

AAkasha -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/28/2010 11:38:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Voodali Thank you for your responses. While the "thanks but no thanks" letter seems he most mature and sensible, I guess I always fear the return letter asking "why no thanks ?", because then I have to come out and say it. I am quite happy to paddle someone until the skin breaks, or humiliate them in a way I know delights both of us, but emotional sadism is not for me. In the past, how I have dealt with it is to write letter praising the boy's attempt and telling him that despite the fact that he writes wonderfully, is intelligent and seems like a good candidate, I simply am not attracted to him (which I feel very shallow saying based on a photograph). I know that these sorts of rejections are forever remembered on some level, and can, depending on the person's temperament, eat away at self esteem. No one should be punished for putting themselves out there and trying to meet someone. I am tempted not to answer at all sometimes because everyone knows that a lot of profiles are fake or abandoned, so it would come as no surprise if no reply came. That said, many a beautiful person has sorely disappointed me, so I will meet a person who is not physically attractive. I just think it fair to let them know from the getgo that I probably will not develop any romantic or sexual feelings. Service doesn't have to be romantic or sexual, but that is what some boys, and ultimately I seek. I would be interested to know what the majority of boys themselves would prefer, clear, honest rejection, service with the knowledge that it could never be romantic or sexual or just no reply. If you honestly really, really dig this man as a person and like what he has to say, and the physical "lack of attraction" isn't extremely intense (ie, is he just "not your type" or is he a man you honestly can't imagine even remotely ever, every going to be attracted to?), why not continue to get to know him but state that physical bdsm is off the table essentially, as chemistry is key and you are very particular? I could phrase this all better but am rushing out right now; the point is that we all know (and have been there) that sometimes a man isn't "attractive" but he "becomes attractive" as feelings develop. I've exchanged pictures before with men who I had an initial attraction to via email but then saw the picture and went "oh well..he isn't knocking my socks off, but he's nice and I like talking to him" -- and found later I had mad, mad physical attraction to him. It just happens. I have a "type" I like - dark hair, waify build, nice hip bones, femme facial bone structure, and hair - oh my, HAIR is a must - especially thick hair I can grab and hair that hangs in the eyes. This is so much "my type" that I was militant about it. So much so that when I exchanged photos years ago with a guy who I thought was precious (in email) and sweet, I saw his pic and went, "eh..not my type, bummer." Athletic, masculine, short-to-no-hair, blonde, blue eyed, no thanks! I ended up marrying him - he's my soul mate. It wasn't for some time that I was really intensely attracted to him on a physical level. I always thought he was "cute" but "not my type." Emotions can have a very, very dramatic affect on chemistry - just be careful not to judge too quickly. If you like the guy, at least give him a chance. Akasha

SubRoar -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/28/2010 12:12:09 PM)
Well, Voodali since you asked.... If you don't feel any connection to this person then you're under no expectation to go out with this person. (Is it a bit shallow? Sure but so is every human relationship.) That being said, if your big hang up is only based on looks you're going to end up with a lot of attractive people that lack in other ways. I would also urge against simply not responding at all. Apart from being a bit uncouth, if you want to encourage subs that actually treat women as people rather then objects (looking at you HNGs) it's good to reward that kind of behaviour. Doesn't have to be specific or very deep. Think of the way you'd reject someone who polity and respectably asked you out: Would you say "I think you're ugly?"

notinferior -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/28/2010 12:30:13 PM)
I can't speak for any person but myself. When I get a "reject", I'd rather know the reason. I hate people who say "I don't think we would be compatible, good luck in your search." I find it condescending and presumptuous, not to mention completely lacking in strength. I would rather read: "Thank you for your letter, I truly was moved by it. I can tell you are a highly intelligent man with a passion that speaks well of your gender. Sadly, though, I am not physically attracted to your photo. I know this sounds rather shallow, but the fact is that I am looking for a man I find appealing mentally, physically and morally. No doubt you feel the same. I do hope you value honesty more than tack." Now, to have the courage to send something like that would take the most incredibly powerful woman in the world and I, as a man, would find her all the more desireable. I would also, regrettably, honor her wishes. I suppose, though, that I am a little different than most men. Many would write back and flame you. Others might try to find out where you lived......

LadyMondenschein -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/28/2010 12:35:24 PM)
In reply to Voodali's question, what do you do about someone who is very polite but lacks the aesthetic qualities you seek? What I would do is be polite. And let him down gently. Tell him that while you are sure that he will make some other Dominant a fine slave or what ever the case may be, that he is not suited for what you have in mind. It's always better to be kind and courteous than downright mean about it. You'll feel better about yourself, he won't be so crushed, and it shows high class on your part. Mond.

LadyMondenschein -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/28/2010 12:38:59 PM)
In response to joether's statement that a person is vanilla or chocolate. Why limit to those flavors? I feel like Rum Rasin today. [;)]

Lockit -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/28/2010 12:42:45 PM)
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D] That ought to get some attention! It sure got mine! Good one!

LafayetteLady -> RE: A Question of Ettiquette (1/28/2010 1:47:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: notinferior I can't speak for any person but myself. When I get a "reject", I'd rather know the reason. I hate people who say "I don't think we would be compatible, good luck in your search." I find it condescending and presumptuous, not to mention completely lacking in strength. I would rather read: "Thank you for your letter, I truly was moved by it. I can tell you are a highly intelligent man with a passion that speaks well of your gender. Sadly, though, I am not physically attracted to your photo. I know this sounds rather shallow, but the fact is that I am looking for a man I find appealing mentally, physically and morally. No doubt you feel the same. I do hope you value honesty more than tack." Now, to have the courage to send something like that would take the most incredibly powerful woman in the world and I, as a man, would find her all the more desireable. I would also, regrettably, honor her wishes. I suppose, though, that I am a little different than most men. Many would write back and flame you. Others might try to find out where you lived...... Really though "we aren't compatible" is better than saying "you are physically unappealing." I do understand the concept that far too many will want to know "why" they are incompatible and then engage in the "sales pitch" of how they can "become" compatible which will lead to block and ignore more than likely. But at the same time, I think a lot of times "we are not compatible" is code for I'm not physically attracted to you. If it is a situation like AAkasha's, where the guy simply isn't her "type," that is fine to let someone know. But really, it is just mean to point out to someone that they are not physically appealling, and most likely they already are aware of that, just like someone who is overweight doesn't think they are petite and skinny. Pointing out the obvious serves no purpose especially when there is another way of doing it.

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