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"Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by someone." Intimacy and monogamy


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"Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by som... - 2/1/2010 12:21:09 PM   
AAkasha


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As I go through the process of identifying what is "ok" vs. "not ok" in my open relationship, I find that there are some interesting and unique ways of looking at S&M activities.   I'm married and fluid monogamous, but my husband is "ok" with me playing with others physically; yet, we are constantly going back to revisit what is ok for both of us.

What I have found doesn't work is trying to categorize acts based on "how intimate" they are. Or "how emotional" they are.  Both are impossible to measure and impossible to have hard rules on.  Especially when - by their very nature - these acts make me incredibly turned on. Hell yes, they are intimate!

I found a different way to help define and discuss.  When it comes to S&M acts, I see two kinds:  Active and passive.  Active domination means I am doing something to a man to express my sadism or dominance: Tying him up.  Hurting him.  Humiliating him.  All these things can be intimate and they can be emotional.  All of them can - and do - turn me on.  These are areas of my sadism that I like to express.  My partner is generally ok with the active side of my sadism as he understands it pretty well, because he understands my motivations.

Passive domination is when guys do things to me.  Worship my feet.  Rub my back.  Pamper me.  This is where things start to come unraveled in our discussions of monogamy vs. open relationship.  These things are intimate also - yet, you can say some of them are LESS intimate than me doing active domination things to a man. Yet, these are areas that he's more uncomfortable with.  I don't know if it's age-old "possessiveness" (another man enjoying my body); when we talk about it, it seems more to be about *not being sure about the motivations of the man on the other end*.  When a man is a (passive) recipient of my sadism, it's understood that I am in control. I control the acts and the intimate.  When I am on the receiving end of "worship," or affection, or adoration, those lines become blurred.

Fortunately, my drive is FAR more leaning toward sadism/active domination.   I find the distinction above to be illuminating because I didn't make the connection until we started listing the acts and couldn't figure out why some acts were "ok sometimes" and "well, it depends," until I put them in the context of above.  For example, a lot of acts could fall into either category depending on the situation. Like kissing, or smothering, or strapons. Am I fucking his ass, or is he worshipping my cock?  Am I kissing him cruelly, or is he giving me a kiss romantically/affectionately?  Am I sitting on his face as an act of torture, or is he "worshipping my ass" as an act of intimacy?

We're clearly taking baby steps.  Every time I play with another man in the flesh, it opens up new areas of discomfort that we chat through.  But every time, we get a little closer, too.  Funny how that works!

Akasha


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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/1/2010 12:26:56 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		This thread might interest you http://www.collarchat.com/m_2992857/tm.htm .  While you are going into the details of which acts and which motivations are acceptable or not in certain acts, some of this background might aide in the discussion on the topic you're approaching.

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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/1/2010 3:38:44 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
For example, a lot of acts could fall into either category depending on the situation. Like kissing, or smothering, or strapons. Am I fucking his ass, or is he worshipping my cock?  Am I kissing him cruelly, or is he giving me a kiss romantically/affectionately?  Am I sitting on his face as an act of torture, or is he "worshipping my ass" as an act of intimacy?


It's very possible to kiss someone cruelly whilst they are kissing back passionately. You can decide how you are approaching the actiivity but the other party solely decides how they interact to it. I found in my open relationship days that it is almost impossible to quantify these things in this fashion. I think it's very positive that you two sit down and discuss it like you do. After a while I found out that it was better to set basic ground rules (fluid bonding, for example) and approach the rest of it from a "don't ask, don't tell" perspective. Trying to micro-manage an open relationship will drive you crazy over time.





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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/1/2010 4:54:23 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I am really not a prude....(keep telling yourself that....Keep telling yourself that)
 
I don't think it can work.  I try and see myself through the eyes of the op.  Here is the big fucking leap.  I consider myself to be a fairly fucking normal red blooded American male.  (Chuckling can be heard throughout the great Gorean CM hall)

I understand that not everyone is programmed like me. However, in order to allow someone that I really....And I mean "really" dig to go off and have contact with another...it just ain't happening.  (Unless with another woman...then we might have to have a pow wow)

So when I see these types of threads I cannot begin to understand the dynamic that would allow this to transpire and stay within the "healthy" boundaries of a relationship.

I could easily do this with someone that I don't really give two squirts about.

Very odd.  Though you claim it is making you closer....My bet is that it will inevitably  lead to the dissolve of the relationship if there are actually any real and tangible emotions that either party has for it.

It's odd. I have always believed that the one that has the least amount of interest controls the relationship.  Not the necessary foundation for actually making something work.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/1/2010 4:56:03 PM >

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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/1/2010 5:01:14 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I am really not a prude....(keep telling yourself that....Keep telling yourself that)
 
I don't think it can work.  I try and see myself through the eyes of the op.  Here is the big fucking leap.  I consider myself to be a fairly fucking normal red blooded American male.  (Chuckling can be heard throughout the great Gorean CM hall)

I understand that not everyone is programmed like me. However, in order to allow someone that I really....And I mean "really" dig to go off and have contact with another...it just ain't happening.  (Unless with another woman...then we might have to have a pow wow)

So when I see these types of threads I cannot begin to understand the dynamic that would allow this to transpire and stay within the "healthy" boundaries of a relationship.

I could easily do this with someone that I don't really give two squirts about.

Very odd.  Though you claim it is making you closer....My bet is that it will inevitably  lead to the dissolve of the relationship if there are actually any real and tangible emotions that either party has for it.

It's odd. I have always believed that the one that has the least amount of interest controls the relationship.  Not the necessary foundation for actually making something work.


Ehh...I am used to people telling me my marriage won't last.  Because he's ten years younger than I am.  Because he doesn't have a career and isn't a financial provider.  Because we live together and spend 24/7 together basically ("you can't spend that much time with someone!").  Because we don't want kids, and will thus never become a "family."  Because we didn't spend enough time dating (we got married less than three months after meeting in person for the first time). 

I'll just add this to the list of reasons why people don't think it will last, but most said it wouldn't last more than a few years and we've gone well past that and it's only getting better.

Akasha


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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/1/2010 5:13:57 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		it is an odd thing...I suppose it all depends on how someone interprets words like "better".  Or what someone is willing to accept.

I actually wish you both well. 

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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/1/2010 6:29:41 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
I don't think it can work.


It does work for some couples. If it only worked for one couple in the entire history of open relationships that would be proof enough that it is possible and that every other couple who attempted it were merely dismal failures at it.


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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/1/2010 9:00:03 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

These things are intimate also - yet, you can say some of them are LESS intimate than me doing active domination things to a man. Yet, these are areas that he's more uncomfortable with. I don't know if it's age-old "possessiveness" (another man enjoying my body); when we talk about it, it seems more to be about *not being sure about the motivations of the man on the other end*.


You know Akasha, when I was with my last boy, he would get a tad jealous when I went out with the girls for Martini nights.

He said "ok, I will deal, but don't look to hot, ok?" And I used to smile and ask him why. His rationale was that other men would oggle me. I reminded him that I was in control of my body and that a man could oggle me all he wanted, but that wouldn't take away my decision of whether or not he could touch my body. He used to say to me "It's not you that I don't trust, it's them. I know men, I know how we are."

You are right, the over protective dad, the over protective boyfriend, I think it is deeply engrained in them. I actually find it kind of sweet when it comes across as a wee bit of jealousy. I've always said that there is nothing wrong with a wee bit of jealousy. It is when it turns into aggressive jealousy and possessiveness that it becomes a hard limit for me.

Your husband might want to be the only one who gets the privilege to worship you. He may see that as his biggest reward in this relationship and it might really hurt him to share this.

Just my perspective.

- LA

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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/1/2010 10:53:41 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I am really not a prude....(keep telling yourself that....Keep telling yourself that)
 
I don't think it can work.  I try and see myself through the eyes of the op.  Here is the big fucking leap.  I consider myself to be a fairly fucking normal red blooded American male.  (Chuckling can be heard throughout the great Gorean CM hall)

I understand that not everyone is programmed like me. However, in order to allow someone that I really....And I mean "really" dig to go off and have contact with another...it just ain't happening.  (Unless with another woman...then we might have to have a pow wow)

So when I see these types of threads I cannot begin to understand the dynamic that would allow this to transpire and stay within the "healthy" boundaries of a relationship.

I could easily do this with someone that I don't really give two squirts about.

Very odd.  Though you claim it is making you closer....My bet is that it will inevitably  lead to the dissolve of the relationship if there are actually any real and tangible emotions that either party has for it.

It's odd. I have always believed that the one that has the least amount of interest controls the relationship.  Not the necessary foundation for actually making something work.


Ehh...I am used to people telling me my marriage won't last.  Because he's ten years younger than I am.  Because he doesn't have a career and isn't a financial provider.  Because we live together and spend 24/7 together basically ("you can't spend that much time with someone!").  Because we don't want kids, and will thus never become a "family."  Because we didn't spend enough time dating (we got married less than three months after meeting in person for the first time). 

I'll just add this to the list of reasons why people don't think it will last, but most said it wouldn't last more than a few years and we've gone well past that and it's only getting better.

Akasha



What of the 'submissive woman' and 'dominant breadwinning dominants' getting along for years with this sort of lean, so to speak?


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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/2/2010 2:22:59 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
I don't think it can work.


It does work for some couples. If it only worked for one couple in the entire history of open relationships that would be proof enough that it is possible and that every other couple who attempted it were merely dismal failures at it.



However, if it worked for only one couple or merely a handful of couples then my statement would be proven to be not only accurate but just.

"I don't think it will work." 

I understand that is a tad bit flippant but let's face the facts that nearly half of all the unions will fail at some point in the future.  When you throw in to the mix some rather intimate contact with "another" that only tends to further exasperate a union that is already suffering from a fifty percent failure rate.

Although I know I am preceived to be more than human out here, I am but a simple man.  Trapped within all of the frailities and the traits of most red blooded American males.  If cut do I not bleed?

Juss saying, you put enough pussy in my face there is the possibility that I might just find one more to my liking than my current set of holes.

Heavy sir, but it had to be said.

Word.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/2/2010 2:24:02 PM >

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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/2/2010 2:31:11 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline
quote:

Juss saying, you put enough pussy in my face there is the possibility that I might just find one more to my liking than my current set of holes.


Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? I hope your csoh is happy.

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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/2/2010 2:33:24 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		You are on a roll today, HC.!



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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/2/2010 2:38:10 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		What my csoh don't know my csoh don't mind.

It's like gays in the military around the Domicile.

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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/2/2010 3:37:43 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		Dear Lord Jefff that is not something I want.

*walks away from the computer

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Every single line means something.
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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/2/2010 3:41:19 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		"Dear Lord Jeffff".   He is a gentleman and rather dreamy but don't be going all ga ga over him.

He can do nothing for your csoh.

Are they repairable or can they be rejuvinated?

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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/2/2010 4:09:15 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What of the 'submissive woman' and 'dominant breadwinning dominants' getting along for years with this sort of lean, so to speak?


You bring up an excellent point pyro. I think our society isn't ready often times to see the tables turn. It doesn't compute for them because the idea that women could be in charge scares the daylights out of them.

My mother is slightly older than my father, is more educated and makes more money then my father, in fact, at retirement she made double his salary. When we were young, my dad went back to University a few classes a week but otherwise was a stay at home dad with us. My mom built the strong career. My dad followed with a pretty awesome one. They will be married 40 years this year.

The secret, my mom always told me, is never make him feel inferior. Everyone brings what they bring to the table and should be valued as their quality contribution, not judged by quantity.

- LA

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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/2/2010 4:18:09 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
I understand that is a tad bit flippant but let's face the facts that nearly half of all the unions will fail at some point in the future.  When you throw in to the mix some rather intimate contact with "another" that only tends to further exasperate a union that is already suffering from a fifty percent failure rate.

Just saying, you put enough pussy in my face there is the possibility that I might just find one more to my liking than my current set of holes.


As to the first paragraph that's often called the 50%  myth. While it may be true that 50 percent of marriages end in divorce that statistic is a little misleading because of all the serial marriers (for lack of a better word) out there.

On the second count I agree with you wholeheartedly and it is the one pitfall that those considering open relationships too often fail to consider. Once you open that relationship up you open it up to the possibility of one or both parties meeting someone who is just a much better fit for them than their current spouse or significant other. I know. I've been there. Things can get really sticky at that point.




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"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." Sidney J. harris

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RE: "Doing someone" vs. "Getting done by... - 2/2/2010 8:08:10 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

"Dear Lord Jeffff".   He is a gentleman and rather dreamy but don't be going all ga ga over him.

He can do nothing for your csoh.

Are they repairable or can they be rejuvinated?


Haha that is so funny. it does look like I am saying Dear Lord Jeff, rather than the way I meant it.

Dear Lord domi what is wrong with thou? What do you mean are they repairable or can they be rejuvinated? Please esplane.

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



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