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Remember all those discussions we had about the "r... - 2/14/2010 4:17:37 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
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I can remember several threads in which some of us made the argument that if we didn't have a system so that we could detain and interrogate terrorist, or even suspected terrorist, that the unfortunate result would be more dead terrorists on the battlefields.

Of course, this was laughed off, and the "oh so concerned about everyones' rights" group said that such a thing would either never happen, or wouldn't happen under someone other than thatgawddamnswaggeringsonuvbitchBushilter bastard ...

Well, guess what ...


Under Obama, more targeted killings than captures in counterterrorism efforts

By Karen DeYoung and Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, February 14, 2010

"Over a year after taking office, the administration has still failed to answer the hard questions about what to do if we have the opportunity to capture and detain a terrorist overseas, which has made our terror-fighters reluctant to capture and left our allies confused," Sen. Christopher S. Bond (Mo.), the ranking Republican on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, said Friday. "If given a choice between killing or capturing, we would probably kill."
...

Some military and intelligence officials, citing what they see as a new bias toward kills, questioned whether valuable intelligence is being lost in the process. "We wanted to take a prisoner," a senior military officer said of the Nabhan operation. "It was not a decision that we made."

Even during the Bush administration, "there was an inclination to 'just shoot the bastard,' " said a former intelligence official briefed on current operations. "But now there's an even greater proclivity for doing it that way. . . . We need to have the capability to snatch when the situation calls for it."

....

One problem identified by those within and outside the government is the question of where to take captives apprehended outside established war zones and cooperating countries. "We've been trying to decide this for over a year," the senior military officer said. "When you don't have a detention policy or a set of facilities," he said, operational decisions become more difficult.

So, as we "heartless conservative bastards" predicted ... we are preserving the human rights of people ... but we are killing them to do it.

Firm


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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 4:58:07 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Read them their Miranda rights, then slit their throats for like they would ours. They'll remain silent for sure.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 5:21:06 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Read them their Miranda rights, then slit their throats for like they would ours. They'll remain silent for sure.


The "usual suspects" are deafening in their silence.

Firm


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Some people are just idiots.

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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 5:32:13 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Read them their Miranda rights, then slit their throats for like they would ours. They'll remain silent for sure.


The "usual suspects" are deafening in their silence.

Firm


Now that is not fair. They are obviously researching the topic. Getting to know all of the ins an outs.















Trying to find a way to blame Bush and or Palin for the current policies.

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 5:34:46 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Shame we couldn't teach some of the trolls that haunt these pages to be as silent....right willbeur?

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

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(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 5:39:45 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		Reply from one of the usual suspects...

I don't know exactly who we are killing in spades, but if they are genuinely hostile forces, in the field of battle, I am fine with that.

What, did you think otherwise?

One area of concern we all should have is that in the War On Terror, the battlefield is wherever the President says it is; Kabul, Helmand Province, Palm Beach Florida.

And an "enemy combatant" is anyone the President says.


So like, President CommuNazi can simply pick up the phone and say, "take that Rush Limbaugh guy out", and it can be done, legally.

Still, I am ok with that.

As long as it is limited to Rush Limbaugh. But thats what makes me a bleeding heart liberal.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 5:43:27 PM   
EbonyWood


Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Read them their Miranda rights, then slit their throats for like they would ours. They'll remain silent for sure.


The "usual suspects" are deafening in their silence.

Firm



Maybe some of us weren't the 'us' who had previous discussions.
 
Maybe it's just for noonesdaddy to have knife fantasies.
 
Maybe there are no usual suspects who need to have a wank off against the right.
 
Maybe this is a personal wankfest for the conservatives.
 
Enjoy.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 5:48:41 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Read them their Miranda rights, then slit their throats for like they would ours. They'll remain silent for sure.


The "usual suspects" are deafening in their silence.

Firm



Maybe some of us weren't the 'us' who had previous discussions.
 
Maybe it's just for noonesdaddy to have knife fantasies.
 
Maybe there are no usual suspects who need to have a wank off against the right.
 
Maybe this is a personal wankfest for the conservatives.
 
Enjoy.


Maybe some of you weren't the intended audience of the post, as well.

But, as my gran'pappy use to say ... "Hit dog hollars."

Firm


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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 5:48:50 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		Well, EW, I think there are still some people left who believe that all the Gitmo detainees were "captured on the battlefield"; but as has been pointed out many times before, many of them were picked up at traffic checkpoints, some were in their homes miles from any fighting, and some others were picked up in other countries, far away from any battlefield.

But saying, "we picked up some guy at a traffic stop in another country, and tortured him until we found out he was an innocent cab driver" kinda makes us look bad.

(in reply to EbonyWood)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 5:53:29 PM   
EbonyWood


Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Read them their Miranda rights, then slit their throats for like they would ours. They'll remain silent for sure.


The "usual suspects" are deafening in their silence.

Firm



Maybe some of us weren't the 'us' who had previous discussions.
 
Maybe it's just for noonesdaddy to have knife fantasies.
 
Maybe there are no usual suspects who need to have a wank off against the right.
 
Maybe this is a personal wankfest for the conservatives.
 
Enjoy.


Maybe some of you weren't the intended audience of the post, as well.



Sorry, didn't know there were private areas of the forums.
 
I'll just mark you down as having some personal feud and/or axe to grind, then.
 
Easily fixed.
 
 

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 6:10:39 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

Sorry, didn't know there were private areas of the forums.
 
I'll just mark you down as having some personal feud and/or axe to grind, then.
 
Easily fixed.


Woof!  Woof!

Firm


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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 6:11:30 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Read them their Miranda rights, then slit their throats for like they would ours. They'll remain silent for sure.


Funny you should say that...I happened to be reading about a group of accused pedophiles, who are accused of snatching children from earthquake-ravaged Haiti, to be sold into child sex trafficking.

I agree...slit their throats, since they obviously don't deserve namby pamby "human rights" stuff.

Now of course, all the usual suspects are crying out for them to be afforded "due process" and prattling on about how they are "innocent until proven guilty" but I say, lets not be soft on criminals!
Lets deal with 'em like they should be dealt with!

And if you want a laugh, read what one such liberal had to say:
[Kathryn Jean Lopez of National Review] complains that Allen has "hypertension," was allowed to speak to his wife only once in the first ten days of his confinement, and was denied his choice of counsel for a few days (though he is now duly represented in Haitian courts by a large team of American lawyers).

Fuck those pantywaist liberals.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 6:13:02 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Well, EW, I think there are still some people left who believe that all the Gitmo detainees were "captured on the battlefield"; but as has been pointed out many times before, many of them were picked up at traffic checkpoints, some were in their homes miles from any fighting, and some others were picked up in other countries, far away from any battlefield.

But saying, "we picked up some guy at a traffic stop in another country, and tortured him until we found out he was an innocent cab driver" kinda makes us look bad.



And what has that to do with the Obama administration killing rather than capturing terrorists?

Firm


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Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 6:14:17 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Read them their Miranda rights, then slit their throats for like they would ours. They'll remain silent for sure.


Funny you should say that...I happened to be reading about a group of accused pedophiles, who are accused of snatching children from earthquake-ravaged Haiti, to be sold into child sex trafficking.

I agree...slit their throats, since they obviously don't deserve namby pamby "human rights" stuff.

Now of course, all the usual suspects are crying out for them to be afforded "due process" and prattling on about how they are "innocent until proven guilty" but I say, lets not be soft on criminals!
Lets deal with 'em like they should be dealt with!

And if you want a laugh, read what one such liberal had to say:
[Kathryn Jean Lopez of National Review] complains that Allen has "hypertension," was allowed to speak to his wife only once in the first ten days of his confinement, and was denied his choice of counsel for a few days (though he is now duly represented in Haitian courts by a large team of American lawyers).

Fuck those pantywaist liberals.





And what has that to do with the Obama administration killing rather than capturing terrorists?

Firm


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Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 6:20:32 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		I have no problem killing combatants on a battlefield.

Just not when they are three countries away, three weeks later, driving along the road.

Because that kinda makes them accused criminals, like these pedophiles....er, ACCUSED pedophiles who are being so harshly mistreated.

Digby at Hullabaloo says it better than I do:
"There's something about the American right that requires a very specific degree of identification for them to be empathetic and it goes beyond race, although race is certainly a factor. They see these people in that jail in Haiti and see themselves --- nice "normal" Americans --- and they feel their pain at being wrongly accused. They suddenly demand that human rights be universal and stand firmly behind the constitutional tenet that one is innocent until proven guilty. They are aghast that these people could be ill treated in prison or not given all the safeguards we were all promised in their 8th grade history book.

But they are incapable of extending that same identification to "others," people who aren't "like" them, that they couldn't be related to or who don't speak the same language. Those people aren't Real people. And for many of them, that's not just something they apply to non-Americans, but to their fellows as well. They assume that suspects are guilty until proven innocent all the time in America. "

The word for the day is "empathic myopia".

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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 6:23:55 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


I can remember several threads in which some of us made the argument that if we didn't have a system so that we could detain and interrogate terrorist, or even suspected terrorist, that the unfortunate result would be more dead terrorists on the battlefields.

Of course, this was laughed off...


Really?

By whom?




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In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 6:26:19 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Read them their Miranda rights, then slit their throats for like they would ours. They'll remain silent for sure.


The "usual suspects" are deafening in their silence.



Maybe the people you have in mind are reading the OP over and over again, trying in vain to find the question you seem to want them to answer.


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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 6:33:51 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		All this confusion is the result of the west fighting a war we have not fought on this scale before. In WWII the US refused to bomb cities while the UK killed thousands...Where was the moral uproar then by the way...But the US had to change its policies when it realized the war would not end without changing its moral policy towards killing civilians.

Then as now we had to change our policies to be able to protect our nation. Was it the right thing to do?...I think not...it cost us more lives by strengthening the enemy.

Was it the United States fault alone...Not in my book... It is cowardice of the rest of the western world to take their part of the responsibility in defeating this threat. They left it up to the US then complained when they did not like our solution. Will screw you world.

I've said over and over we need a worldwide solution on what to do with captured terrorists or combatants without a nation to hold responsible. It should not be left up to one nation when this is a worldwide problem.

Myself I would demand the UK…France…Germany…take their share of these captives or shut up. Do with them as they please but stop the yap yap yap like a bunch of spoiled kids.

Use military tribunals…either incarcerate or release…close the damn prison in Gitmo… and demand the western world agree on a solution to future problems of this sort.

Butch

Sorry EbonyWood this reply was to Firm.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/14/2010 6:37:52 PM >

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RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 8:30:41 PM   
EbonyWood


Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

Sorry, didn't know there were private areas of the forums.
 
I'll just mark you down as having some personal feud and/or axe to grind, then.
 
Easily fixed.


Woof!  Woof!

Firm



From

http://www.orioncharters.com/dog_sharks.htm


"Dog sharks are considered trash fish and are normally released."

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Remember all those discussions we had about the &qu... - 2/14/2010 8:38:45 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I'd really like to see a quote from any of those of us who oppose torture and gitmo that had a problem with terrorists being killed on the battlefield.

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Profile   Post #: 20
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