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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 6:13:12 AM

GreedyTop

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I like that analogy, Jsta....

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 6:13:39 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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I'm happy. It's a choice. I've had enough challenges in my life that I could go around whining about it and just drive myself into an abysmal depression, but *meh* ... that doesn't work for me.

I'd also like to toss in an old adage that complicates the whole discussion, which is "Misery loves company". Most of us spend a whole lot of time talking to other people about our misery, spreading it around like ochre jelly (Yes, that -is- a Dungeons and Dragons reference *G*) on mouldy toast. I tend to put my focus outside of myself, as much as I can. I don't worry about where my happiness -comes-from... I am just grateful as all heck that I've figured out a way not to contribute to the general miserable emotional detrius we seem to get off on in our current culture.

I don't think sadness is a bad thing. I don't think there is any emotion that is "bad" -- it's what we DO with that collection of hormones and neurotransmitters, instincts and passions, that determines our overall level of happiness -- it's not all body... it's not all mind... it's some strange combination of behavior, adaptation, imagination and will.

I think that if we could bottle happiness and hand it out in doses, or even worse, make it a compulsory addition to our day to numb away our feelings (through the water supply or whatever), I'd find someplace far away from society where I could stick to what -I- feel. To me, that compulsory idea that challenges and struggle are automatically "bad", and that we must be happy even to the point of having it forced on us...and that having chemical happiness forced on us is somehow that is a GOOD thing... that would be the penultimate illusion.

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 6:18:25 AM

JstAnotherSub

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the whole tale might be an illusion, but i dont care

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I like that analogy, Jsta....

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 6:23:14 AM

lusciouslips19

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Is happiness an illusion? Maybe. But it is an illusion we can choose or not choose. Time and time again I see people choose happiness and "the bright side"and just retain a positive outlook regardless of their circumstances. Then there are those that never appreciate what they have because they are always focusing on the negative stuff. I was with such a person for lunch yesterday. Always complained about the women in his life, his job, etc but he was always to afraid to go for better. So he could'nt stand change but he complained about what he had. If you aren't going to "go for it" the least you can do is appreciate what you do have. But some people would rather focus on discontent.

I had been rather down as my employment or lack thereof, is not great, and I had another job pulled out from under me.....however being with him made me realize how well adjusted I am as I have been continuing to take action and I have taken steps to at least add some fun and joy back in to my life. What's the sense of moaning about stuff if you are not willing to take action?

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 6:38:49 AM

camille65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

A thought came to Me and this is how it goes.

In the 40's they invented Meth (speed). They gave it to the soldiers on both sides in WW2 (That's how they marched across europe so quickly). In the 50's doctors started prescribing it for about 50 different conditions, most importantly depression as well as weight loss. It was the first happy pill. And wildly popular (as you can imagine). It is a little known fact that 50's housewives were on meth.

It strikes Me as ironic, that the scourge of the 21 century was the happy pill of the 50's.

After meth there were a whole slew of happy pills for depressed housewives. Valium, Quualudes, etc. To this Day, 60 years later, they are still searching for THE HAPPY PILL. None of them have worked.

Then the thought struck ME: What if they find THE HAPPY PILL? Looking at present day society: most women and half the men are on happy pills that dont work. Then If they found THE HAPPY PILL what a rush there would be to get it. The rush would make Meth look like small time.

Then an even bigger thought crosses My mind... Maybe some unhappines is good for us. Maybe it motivates us to improve our lot and the lot of others.

Then a shudder went up My spine. What if everyone was using THE HAPPY PILL and they were no longer motivated to improve thier lot and the lot of others... Would society become a sewage of misery and grief and no one would care because they are artificially happy? Would the officials provide it to the mass populations to pacify us into being good workers for the economy i.e. be happy with less pay, less heat, less food, less health care, etc?

Sounds like science fiction. But it has partially evolved. All it takes is to find THE HAPPY PILL. And they are looking for it night and day.

I'll post more controversy after you all had a chance to digest this.
(edit: No... dont read between the lines. I'm not telling or suggesting for anyone to throw out thier MEDS. I am saying something but it's not that.)

And before that Laudenum (sp?) was used, so was Opium. Seeking 'happiness' through outside means is not something that just began to happen in the 1950's, it has been going on as far back as recorded history can go and within every culture.

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 6:43:07 AM

pahunkboy

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the heck with happiness

pencil me in for deliriousness!

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 7:36:10 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

the whole tale might be an illusion, but i dont care

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I like that analogy, Jsta....

Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily
Life is but a dream.

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 7:37:46 AM

dreamerdreaming

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Over many years I have come to the conclusion that the real key to happiness is lowering one's expectations of life. I have very little really materially or emotionally, but I am content. I don't expect to much from life, and therefore I am not disappointed. I have 3 great kids and a roof over my head, a weird cat & a biweekly D&D game...pretty much all a fellow needs.

If this works for you, that's great! Whatever floats your boat, I say.

But the idea of thinking this way depresses the hell out of me. I'd probably wish for an early death if I had to think like that. Nothing personal, Arpig. While this attitude enables you to be content, it might make you the kind of person I wouldn't hang out with in realtime, because I might not have much patience for it. Again, I'm not trying to be inflammatory here because I've always appreciated the thoughtfulness of your posts. That's one of the really nice things about the internet. It gives us a lot of room to find common ground without (hopefully) getting on each other's last nerve.
I don't think you need the rest of my soap-box lecture so I'll direct the rest of my post toward the OP and the larger audience- maybe someone needs to hear it right now. Greedy's post hit my sweet spot...

*tips hat to the gallant Arpig*

I think of all the wonderful things life has to offer, and I plan for the things I want, and work towards them, and expect good and great things. Since I am the controller of my emotions, thoughts and feelings (as well as my actions), I choose to think of "setbacks" "failures" and "difficulties", as opportunities for growth, learning, and fun!

Its not always easy, of course. Far from it. But to me, there is no failure. Just lessons to learn, and experiences to appreciate. I expect a lot from myself, others, and the larger world. I don't expect perfection. And it is true, sadly, that the universe seems to reward cruelty. But altruism, hope and love paradoxically shine through that darkness, if we let them. They don't always triumph over evil, but they make life and death worth the effort.

We all have our down times, sad times, etc. but we needn't let them color our view of the world. I color my world with beauty, love, hope and joy!

Reality is subjective. We each experience the world in the ways we are capable of, and that we learn to, allow ourselves to, choose to... Happiness is only an illusion if we do not have the capability or choice to experience it. But we do. We don't have to be happy all the time, for it to be real. Things that we cannot see or feel, can still exist.

Great thread, OP- Thank you!

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 8:00:50 AM

lusciouslips19

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

the whole tale might be an illusion, but i dont care

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I like that analogy, Jsta....

Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily
Life is but a dream.

Shaboom shaboom

Life could be a dream...

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 8:11:26 AM

Lorenzo19

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Musicmystery started this. I think this poem has profound meaning relating to the topic. Here is the whole poem:

row, row, row your boat
gently down the stream
merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily
life is but a dream

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 8:21:42 AM

Lorenzo19

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Sad is bad.

Events occur where a person goes to a public place and starts shooting people. Do happy people do things like that? No. Sad people do some very bad things. I never hear about happy people doing real bad things.

When My girl gets sad she gets in trouble. Not for being sad... but she just starts screwing everything up and making bad mistakes and rash thoughtless decisions. When she is happy she rarely gets in trouble with Me or others.

To help My girl to be good I first have to help her to be happy. sad is bad.

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 8:22:32 AM

GreedyTop

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dreamer..if I read Arpig correctly, I think what he was saying was more along the lines of:

HUGE mansion, 30 classic cars, servants at beck and call your dream of happiness?
Lower your expectations to: a home where you are happy, essential comforts, people that care about you around...

I could be wrong.....

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 8:27:22 AM

Missokyst

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I would say ANGRY and depressed is bad. Sad is just something people go through because things are not working the way they hoped. That is a far cry from the anger that causes people to commit violence. Just to be clear... what area should I avoid when your girl is sad?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

Sad is bad.

Events occur where a person goes to a public place and starts shooting people. Do happy people do things like that? No. Sad people do some very bad things. I never hear about happy people doing real bad things.

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 8:35:13 AM

dreamerdreaming

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I got that he's happy with his nice life, and he seems to be focused on the positive, yeah. Just the whole concept of "low expectations so you won't be disappointed" really irritates me. Guess I should choose not to let it. I see what you're saying- its relative.

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 8:37:53 AM

mnottertail

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zCz8SKmGek

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 8:40:40 AM

CarrieO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

Sad is bad.

"Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and the word happy would lose it's meaning if it were not balanced by sadness."
~Carl Jung~

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

Is being a happy person a realistic expectation? A person who understands balance is a realistic expectation for me.

How can happiness be acheived? Through effort, humility and awareness.

Why are so many people unhappy? Misery loves company. I can chose the company I keep.

Is sad bad? No.

Where is happiness located? In the mind? brain? heart? soul? spirit? Intellect? Emotions? Faith? Luck? Happiness is. It doesn't need a location.

Can happiness be acheived with chemials? If they discovered the happy chemical would you want it? How much would you pay for it? A type of happiness can be found in chemicals. I've tried some...they don't last.

Will unhappiness be the doom of civilization? No...however, apathy might.

What would society beome if happiness were acheived with chemicals? Should the officials put happy chemicals in the drinking water if the experts decide it is good for us? (they did it with flouride) Who are these "experts" and how could they determine what would be best for everyone ?

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 8:43:44 AM

Lorenzo19

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quote:

area should I avoid when your girl is sad?

*chukle* Tucson - Keep a 100 mile radius clear

Happiness is complicated enough without introducing semantics into it. When I say *sad* I mean the whole range of emotion from 0 to negitive infinity.

I leave the techno babble to the professionals. They like to classify emotions into 1000 little boxes and label each one, catalog it, write it in books and then claim they are helping people to be happy.

I have two boxes sad and happy. sad can become hatred given enough time. sad + time = hate. Since time itself is an illusion. sad = hate.

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 8:46:24 AM

mnottertail

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFRx4PkXeVM

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 8:48:11 AM

dreamerdreaming

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

Where is happiness located? In the mind? brain? heart? soul? spirit? Intellect? Emotions? Faith? Luck? Happiness is. It doesn't need a location.

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RE: Is Happiness an Illusion? - 2/26/2010 9:37:02 AM

Missokyst

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Well... I have had reason to be sad in my life. Molestation, rape and betrayal by family as a young one.. Yep.. sad stuff. But it didn't lead to anger and I shared meals with those same people for a good chunk of my life. I can definitely say it did not lead to hate. Sad for me is just transitory. Sad is there to give me time to recover. It sets me aside for a bit so I can grieve and wallow, and ultimately get over it. I see sad as something positive that helps me take a step back from life for a while so I can regroup. I can't say sad has ever resulted in anger or hatred. Those emotions are harmful to my psyche and something I avoid... by letting myself be sad for a bit.

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