RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 8:18:12 AM)

Yeah well. The problem we have with religion is that we dont really understand what religion is, and the problem we have with the dominant relgious format in the western world (Christianity) is that we lack at least half of it, possessing only that simple aspect that can be understood by and dealt with by all.

It may be argued that the division of what is religion into separate specialities is a sign of the progress of a civilisation, but it is more likely for us the consequence of our peculiar social history, and in particular the overlay of a foreign cult (Christianity) onto a pre-existing cultural model, so that from the very start of Christianity for us it was possible to put religion into its own box, largely divorced from the rest of the culture which survived its coming.

But this is the source of one of the two problems we have - that in making religion an aspect of our overall culture, we have lost the sense of our culture being so intimately identified with our religion as for the two to be indistinguishable, and for therefore culture and religion to mean the same thing. With such an understanding of religion, encompassing, informing and arising from all parts of what we know as our culture, it is impossible to be irreligious as long as one belongs to or becomes a member of the culture. Equally, it is not necessary to have such distinct things as creeds to believe in, to kill or to be killed for - for the culture encompasses all and its only needful to belong to the whole, not to subscribe to one of the distinct parts we have identified as religion.

Our second problem is in the wanton and deliberate destruction, with the aim of producing a universally applicable model for the purposes of the rulers, of the more complex aspects of Christianity, such that what we inherited was bereft of anything that explained to the satisfaction of the more enlightened, the contradictions to be found in the simplistic form produced for the masses. It has ever been the case with religion, and especially with mystery cults such as Christianity, that there should be at least two and possibly more forms, each more developed than the former, in existence at any one time and for it to be thereby possible to satisfy the needs of any population whose needs and abilities will vary. Once the doors to learning were opened, this deficiency in the Christian format we have was swiftly identified, leading to the not so modern tendency to rubbish the entirety given its failings.

To return to the question in the OP then, it is absolutely essential for some (perhaps many) to believe firmly in the simple forms taught to them, with the understanding that lacking ability to do so otherwise, these forms will function for them to guide them according to their needs, within the greater culture. Thus it is important to teach that there is a higher authority to which all is subject. At the same time though it is necessary to realise that such simple teachings will not suffice for a minority whose abilities require additional information and explanation as a development of the simple teachings. That such a minority may then reject the simple teachings need not be an issue - as long as religion is understood to be identical to culture and not a separate aspect of it.

E




UncleNasty -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 8:39:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Is the catholic God benign? I don't know. The nuns are rumored to be really mean.


No, not at all--some of them are really quite nice....

[image]http://www.partydomain.co.uk/d-commerce/media/pmslrg_G10072.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.crazyshit.com/site/pics/images/093008_naked_nun_boobs.jpg[/image]



Show me/tell me where I can find nuns like these and I may convert.

Uncle Nasty




heartcream -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:13:46 AM)

Too late UncleNasty. Nuns are already married. They are brides of Christ.




NihilusZero -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:14:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

So, to those who do NOT believe in God, do you believe in the existence, or importance (or both/neither) of benign authority?

I think everyone is a proponent of benign parenting.

People usually like benign bosses too.




mnottertail -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:20:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Too late UncleNasty. Nuns are already married. They are brides of Christ.



I am not opposed to being the bull for them in a cuck relationship at all.

(cuz I believe I got a great dick, larger than all of us......)





NihilusZero -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:35:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

(cuz I believe I got a great dick, larger than all of us......)

But is it benign??




Musicmystery -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:38:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

God may exist however there is no such think as 'Nature'. Per the religious, all global conditions, such as climate change, are caused by man made influence.



Interesting viewpoint.  But then why do Christians pray for divine intervention sometimes? 

Per Genesis, G-d created Nature and then rested on the seventh day.  In other words, He let Nature have a day of independence to run things without His guidance.  But it's pretty clear that He returned to the job after that day.



Steven, it's just another chorus of his Mercland climate change as religion chant.

It's the only tune he knows, so he felt the need to insert it here, completely off topic.




Musicmystery -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:41:41 AM)

UN, we are sending over a representative.

No need to be gentle...

[image]http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/modernmaterialist/2009/01/sexy-nun.jpg[/image]



quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Is the catholic God benign? I don't know. The nuns are rumored to be really mean.


No, not at all--some of them are really quite nice....

[image]http://www.partydomain.co.uk/d-commerce/media/pmslrg_G10072.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.crazyshit.com/site/pics/images/093008_naked_nun_boobs.jpg[/image]



Show me/tell me where I can find nuns like these and I may convert.

Uncle Nasty





Bodhisatva -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:43:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

I've heard it said a few times that it's healthy to believe in the existence of a benign authority, whatever the shape of it is, be it compassionate government, the wisdom of the masses, etc. That's it's important that some, any power larger than yourself (unseen or otherwise) has your best interests in mind, or at least, to BELIEVE that's the case.

So, to those who do NOT believe in God, do you believe in the existence, or importance (or both/neither) of benign authority?


Niether, nor would I describe a god that wipes people from the face of the earth personally, or has his chosen people commit several genocides as benign.




mikeyOfGeorgia -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:47:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

I've heard it said a few times that it's healthy to believe in the existence of a benign authority, whatever the shape of it is, be it compassionate government, the wisdom of the masses, etc. That's it's important that some, any power larger than yourself (unseen or otherwise) has your best interests in mind, or at least, to BELIEVE that's the case.

So, to those who do NOT believe in God, do you believe in the existence, or importance (or both/neither) of benign authority?


i believe in chocolate...does that count?




Vendaval -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:49:36 AM)

I do not believe in an ultimate authority figure. Ever hear of the Gaia philosophy? That goes a long way to explaining the way I view the universe.


"A stronger position is that the Earth's biosphere effectively acts as if it is a self-organizing system which works in such a way as to keep its systems in some kind of equilibrium that is conducive to life. Biologists usually view this activity as an undirected emergent property of the ecosystem; as each individual species pursues its own self-interest, their combined actions tend to have counterbalancing effects on environmental change. Proponents of this view sometimes point to examples of life's actions in the past that have resulted in dramatic change rather than stable equilibrium, such as the conversion of the Earth's atmosphere from a reducing environment to an oxygen-rich one."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_philosophy




Bodhisatva -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:52:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I do not believe in an ultimate authority figure. Ever hear of the Gaia philosophy? That goes a long way to explaining the way I view the universe.


"A stronger position is that the Earth's biosphere effectively acts as if it is a self-organizing system which works in such a way as to keep its systems in some kind of equilibrium that is conducive to life. Biologists usually view this activity as an undirected emergent property of the ecosystem; as each individual species pursues its own self-interest, their combined actions tend to have counterbalancing effects on environmental change. Proponents of this view sometimes point to examples of life's actions in the past that have resulted in dramatic change rather than stable equilibrium, such as the conversion of the Earth's atmosphere from a reducing environment to an oxygen-rich one."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_philosophy



Sounds a bit like Spinoza's god.




NihilusZero -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:54:21 AM)

And the waitress I had when I was last at the silver diner. Complimented me on the two dinner partners I had with me and brought me a mushroom, feta & spinach omelette.

Now that's benign!




Vendaval -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 10:55:49 AM)

Did you invite her to party after her shift was done?




Mercnbeth -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 12:27:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
But then why do Christians pray for divine intervention sometimes?

Creating a 'god' requiring ongoing maintenance; especially when results are contrary to your expectation for your 'god'. The perfect example is the global warming religion. Finding out it was created for personal gain and is being advocated by false prophets makes people feel abused and silly.

"How can I have been so stupid" is not a politically correct. The resulting rationalization takes on the same tactics of any knowledge coming in the face of 'faith based' belief; attack, with the level of juvenile name calling equal to the ability of the faithful to reconcile facts contradictory to belief. Depending on 'power' of the faithful they can burn 'heretics' metaphorically or practically, as they did in the days of the Inquisition.

In your question consider who the "Christians" are praying to. In effect, having created the 'god', they are praying to themselves. Ego centric, as well as self loathing, humanity reconciles the two by setting up something more powerful than humanity, then trying to somehow manipulate that more powerful creation. God or nature, they are 'praying' they are right about their faith despite and regardless of facts in contradiction. Unlike a scientific approach they also have a bail out position - "god's will....". Well hell, a god who knows everything already knew you were going to pray and already knew it wasn't going to change the outcome god already knew.

'God' in modern terms, is now 'good intent'. An extra 'o' and using the new modern word as modifier is all you need to discount reality and facts from your opinion. Discounting the destruction and consequences of that 'god's will' because, after all, belief has 'good intent".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
God may exist however there is no such think as 'Nature'. Per the religious, all global conditions, such as climate change, are caused by man made influence.

Interesting viewpoint.  But then why do Christians pray for divine intervention sometimes?

Per Genesis, G-d created Nature and then rested on the seventh day.  In other words, He let Nature have a day of independence to run things without His guidance.  But it's pretty clear that He returned to the job after that day.

Steven, it's just another chorus of his Mercland climate change as religion chant.
It's the only tune he knows, so he felt the need to insert it here, completely off topic.
I can see by your reoccurring use of the theme that 'Merc-Land' is your own personal penis envy. Similarly if you don't have the resources or ability to enjoy it - envy only serves to make you look smaller than you are.

I'm trying to keep it simple for you MM. Perhaps if you had the ability to address that one issue regarding faith, I'd move onto more. However, you need to answer that it compares to a place you call 'Mercland' points out to a problem you have, specially the inability to use any other tactic other than juvenile name calling.

As you do so - you only point to the religious nature of your advocacy. Please do go on entertaining and amusing me!




Brain -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 2:01:22 PM)

HE'S A NAZI!,






Hitler and Christianity






Written by Selwyn Duke   


Sunday, 08 June 2008 18:15



Long ago, during the darkest chapter of the 20th century, a movie was released entitled Hitler’s Children. While the film is virtually forgotten, I cannot forget a certain scene involving some words a Nazi official uttered to a dissident, a heroic Catholic bishop. Dripping with contempt, the officer said (I’m paraphrasing), “In a few years, the churches will be empty.” It was a thought he obviously relished. Ah, Hollywood and its fiction … or, is this a snapshot of history, a rare case in which Tinseltown’s art imitated life
For many people, such a question seems rhetorical. They “know” Nazism was disgorged from the mouth of Christendom and that, it’s safe to say, every official in the Third Reich was baptized as a child.

http://thenewamerican.com/history/european/271-hitler-and-christianity
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Is the catholic God benign? I don't know. The nuns are rumored to be really mean.

Do catholics sometimes do something wrong, knowing there will be confession and then absolution?

Just thinking about this because I'm eating a chicken-artichoke-spinach pizza and my catholic colleagues won't eat it....

~hijacktee...sorry




NeedToUseYou -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 2:32:33 PM)

At this time the nearest thing to a god, or supernatural, I entertain is the idea that maybe we are connected more so via thought or will, than we may realize. There is some study on this, but my view is that this if "real" is only supernatural in the sense that we don't understand it yet.

I don't believe anything exists that can't be explained, as in I may not be able to explain something but the central "belief" and only "belief" I hold is that all things are explainable.

I read about the Random Generators and how they showed very unlikely results on Sept 11, 2001, which as a collective, was probably the most concentrated day in modern history of singular thought and emotion.

Google Random Event Generator September 11 2001.

They have these devices all over the world, just merrily recording forever. Sometimes however the randomness is not as random as it should be. September 11 was one of those days.

Now, let's say in a 100 years of this measuring we come to the conclusion that human consciousness does effect the physical, that still isn't a god, or anything else, it would merely suggest our will alone, plays a part in the outcome.










willbeurdaddy -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 2:54:33 PM)

FR no




Musicmystery -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 3:59:53 PM)

quote:

Steven, it's just another chorus of his Mercland climate change as religion chant.
It's the only tune he knows, so he felt the need to insert it here, completely off topic.




mnottertail -> RE: Questions for the irreligious here; do you believe in anything greater than yourself? (3/1/2010 4:02:14 PM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d3KYaI0U14




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