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Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool the... - 3/2/2010 2:14:11 PM

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100302/us_time/09171196809900

I am curious how others view this.

Memphis Court case -- Quick summary -- Its about a German family who racked up $10,000 in fines in Germany and police were escorting the children to school because the parents wanted to homeschool them because they didn't like what their children were learning in school and its illegal to do that in German. So the family moved to the US in 2008 and is now seeking asylum to remain.

As far as i know, there were no arrests or harrassment, simply the fines (which doesn't indicate if they were paid) and police escorting the children to school.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 2:17:09 PM

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do those who have muddled classes count as huddled masses though?

E

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 2:26:54 PM

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I don't see how it counts as oppression. It is hard to compare living in say, North Korea to making you send your kid to school.

I also find it hard to believe the couldn't just immigrate. This feels like someone somewhere has an agenda beyond this one family.

Jeff

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 2:31:00 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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Germany? Shit. Maybe we can work out some sort of an exchange. The US can trade me to Germany for that family, even up. I can be packed by the end of the month.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 2:36:17 PM

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lol, funnily I read it today as well, being from Germany and whilst they might have only mentioned the fines, in the long term they would go further. When I was a kid they tried to force the Kelly family to send their two youngest ones to public school....and...Panda, I am happy to help you to get to know common rules if you move over there

Whilst I read it I could not really make up my mind what to think about, I was once subject myself as officials at my local school tried to force me to go into the school in my area as they get paid for each pupil who goes there...nevertheless I wanted to go to another one and already started classes at another one....thanks to one person thinking a lil bit further ahead I then could stay at the school where I wanted to go to...

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 2:54:12 PM

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I am from Chicago. I am not sure we have public "schools" as such here.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 3:45:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Germany? Shit. Maybe we can work out some sort of an exchange. The US can trade me to Germany for that family, even up. I can be packed by the end of the month.

No, you can't go, I'm going! It's already been worked out, I'm leaving a week from Thursday. Sorry!

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 3:54:57 PM

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Oops - wrong window.

< Message edited by DomImus -- 3/2/2010 3:55:57 PM >

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 4:22:16 PM

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Asylum ought to be denied. Not only is the US not the first available safe haven, not only is there little or no evidence of state oppression in this case, but most importantly they have freedom of movement, settlement and employment anywhere in the EU as German citizens such that they could easily have relocated to another member state where the education laws permitted homeschooling - the UK for instance.

All in all it looks like the US was chosen because its the US. And of course its a lot more difficult to recover European fines in the US than it is to recover them within the EU.

E

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 4:26:21 PM

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Considering that yes, there is something called Schulpflicht in Germany, meaning your children have to go to school, but there is also Freie Schulwahl, meaning it is up to you which school your kids go to, and further taking into account that there are schools catering to more or less every philosophy of schooling (yes, there are even "unschooling" schools), I do not feel much sympathy for this family.

Edit to add: And than there is the very valid point Lady E makes. Which my sleep deprived brain completely overlooked.

< Message edited by calamitysandra -- 3/2/2010 4:57:04 PM >

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 4:26:26 PM

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Just what the US needs, MORE born again christian right wingers! Save us!

< Message edited by DarlingSavage -- 3/2/2010 4:27:35 PM >

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 4:41:00 PM

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Their situation does not equal oppression in the same way as say, apartheid, slavery, forced resettlement, physical violence, etc.

And it does appear to be a case with political motivation by a group here in the U.S.A. From the link in the original post -

"So why did he seek asylum in the U.S. rather than relocate to nearby Austria or another European country that allows homeschooling? Romeike's wife Hannelore tells TIME the family was contacted by the Virginia-based Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA), which suggested they go to the U.S. and settle in Morristown, Tenn. The nonprofit organization, which defends the rights of the U.S. homeschooling community - with its estimated 2 million children, or about 4% of the total school-age population - is expanding its overseas outreach. And on Jan. 26, the HSLDA helped the Romeikes become the first people granted asylum in the U.S. because they were persecuted for homeschooling."

I do not think this family's situation qualifies as persecution. See the U.S. State Dept Website for the definition of terms such as: refugee and asylum.
http://www.state.gov/g/prm/c26475.htm

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 4:57:04 PM

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Requiring that kids get a decent education is not oppression. They should be shipped back to Germany.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 5:05:25 PM

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It would seem they were fighting under the premise of "political belief." I don't agree with the decision though at all. I have no issue with home schooling, and when done correctly, can even be a better education for the children. However, that is rarely the case, and the reasons behind the desire to home school are rarely because the parents feel they can better educate their children. It is always about how much they want to shield their children from certain curriculum. Most public schools will allow parents to "opt" their children out of certain classes where the discussion goes against their beliefs, such as sex education or the theory of evolution. Without a doubt those children are probably better off being home schooled here in the states because a good number of states regulate homeschooling. The article also mentions how they are involved with a group that provides actitivities and field trips for the areas children who are home schooled. This is important because so many kids miss out on the socialization aspect of being in a classroom with their peers.

What the article DOESN'T talk about is what the family is doing for employment now that they are here in the states. I'm sure that the organization that fought for them to come here is acting as their sponsor, but who is financially supporting them? The case is being appealled, so there hasn't been a final decision and the family may have to return to Germany should they lose the appeal. The father sold his piano for them to travel here. The parents are music teachers, that certainly is not an "in demand" career in rural Tennessee, nor will their teaching credentials transfer to the US. Should they have to return, have they sold their home? They will not have jobs anymore either. So it ends up being a situation of which country will have to support these people so they can educate their children in the way they see fit. I can't imagine that their church didn't offer a parochial education that would both meet the requirements of the government on education as well as "shield" the children from the unwanted curriculum.

As LadyEllen said, there are quite a few countries nearby that they could have freely moved to that would allow homeschooling. Had the Home School Legal Defense Association not picked up on their situation, how likely is it that they would have chosen the USA to move to as opposed to the UK (as LE suggested)? It does seem as though this family was helped simply to promote the HSLDA's own agenda. What I find really amusing though is that if they are allowed to stay, won't they be shocked when it comes time for their kids to go to college and they find out how expensive it is here compared to in Germany?

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 5:19:01 PM

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HI all, i am along the same lines as many, i don't think they should be given asylum. I don't believe that Germany and as someone else stated their church had some ideas for them that would allow them to comply with the laws. It may not be easy to find or do, but it appears there are other families in the same boat in Germany. Are they all going to come here and apply for asylum? So i have a hard time with this case, it seems almost as if they are making a mockery of the concept of asylum and this association is using them. I understand parents wanting their children educated and such, but i also don't believe its an asylum granting concept to come to the US.

angel

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 10:09:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Requiring that kids get a decent education is not oppression. They should be shipped back to Germany.

I went to public school. I learned all I needed from the text books. I was free to sleep thru class. And teachers were smart enough not to bother calling on me thinking I wouldn't know the answer. I slept thru classes and had the highest test scores. I don't know about schools in Germany but I know from my sisters graduation class that there needs to be a hell of a lot more home schooling. Maybe then you can get a teacher that gives a fuck.

< Message edited by blacksword404 -- 3/2/2010 10:10:13 PM >

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 10:12:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Requiring that kids get a decent education is not oppression. They should be shipped back to Germany.

I went to public school. I learned all I needed from the text books. I was free to sleep thru class. And teachers were smart enough not to bother calling on me thinking I wouldn't know the answer. I slept thru classes and had the highest test scores. I don't know about schools in Germany but I know from my sisters graduation class that there needs to be a hell of a lot more home schooling. Maybe then you can get a teacher that gives a fuck.

Well, schools in Germany were good where I used to go to school (down in the south, near to france and switzerland)...personally I don't see a reason why it would be that necessary to home school the kids...but then...well, some folks do prefer that

Personally I do not have a problem with it that you have to attend public school until you are 18.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 11:50:33 PM

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They are apply for asylum based on religious prosecution. They say that what their children are being taught in the Germany public schools go against their belief so they left Germany and moved to the USA where home schooling is allowed. Religion is subject of its own in schools that is not a mandatory subject (parents or guardians are allowed to remove their children from this subject with a good reason) and from the age of 12 a student is allowed to decide for themselves if they wish to partake in religion or not.

verity

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/2/2010 11:51:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

Well, schools in Germany were good where I used to go to school (down in the south, near to france and switzerland)...personally I don't see a reason why it would be that necessary to home school the kids...but then...well, some folks do prefer that
Personally I do not have a problem with it that you have to attend public school until you are 18.

Most parents who are choosing to homeschool are doing so for religious reasons. They have issues with some of the subjects taught in public school as I mentioned earlier. They don't want the school to give them sex education or teach them about the theory of evolution. Some might have problems with science classes and disecting animals. In all cases, most schools offer the parents the option to "opt out" of those classes, which negates the need to homeschool,

Essentially, I have no issue with parents who want to homeschool. In the US, most states do regulate it and the children must take assessment tests to be sure they are actually learning what is necessary. Wanting to homeschool your children, however, does not reasonably rise to being "oppressed" to a point where you should be granted "asylum" in the US.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/3/2010 6:56:54 AM

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quote:

Requiring that kids get a decent education is not oppression. They should be shipped back to Germany.

Who decides what constitutes a “decent” education?

Granted that on the list of oppressive things a government can do, this doesn’t rank high on the list. Still, the notion that the State has the right to dictate what your kids learn is a dangerous one.

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