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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 2:12:06 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
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quote:


How strange.

Speaking of strange... http://weirdnews.about.com/od/suggestedreading/ig/Weird-News-Photo-Extravaganza/Crucifixion-Reenactment-1.htm


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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 2:13:46 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:


How strange.

Speaking of strange... http://weirdnews.about.com/od/suggestedreading/ig/Weird-News-Photo-Extravaganza/Crucifixion-Reenactment-1.htm




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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 2:43:22 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
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Status: offline 		I was more thinking along the lines of it looking like a publicity pic for "Anteater Christ Superstar"

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 2:46:54 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
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From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		Or a Furry Pride Out-And-Proud poster...

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 3:09:03 PM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

I have pretty much rejected most social programming to do with sexual mores frm a very early age. I saw through the bullshit with the Easter bunny and Santa Claus at about age five or so-the other children were not amused with me over that.

In fact,the idea and practice of subverting commonly held "truths" have always been one of my greatest delights in life-you just have to be careful who you try it with.

I used catholic guilt as a generic term,yes. I guess I just find it amusing that so many practicioners seem to feel they are so free by doing bdsm-and then turn around and try to impose these same tired old mores on the rest of us? But still call themselves "progressive", because they swat a hiney or two?

How strange.


I feel like you're not really disclosing the context of your remarks. You don't come across as particularly free of social programming about sex to me. You have a profile stating you're only here looking for friends but then you end with this:

quote:

I'm probably going to feel revulsion if your profile has pictures of bruises, or you having sex with other people-I am NOT poly.


Well A-fucking-men. It's a good thing you shared your revulsion with your potential friends that they might engage in activities you're not interested in. Most people would object to profile pics of someone having sex on the grounds of TMI, or with concerns about whether or not the other person  in the photo consented to it being published here. Feeling revolted by the idea of other people having sex, or feeling that your identification as monogamous is challenged by pics of other people having sex... doesn't exactly come across as sexually liberated to me. Nor does it come across as being interested in making friends.

How about some specific examples of which tired old mores you see people pushing? Better yet, an example of a self-styled "progressive" doing so.

And joking about "catholic guilt" is one thing, but using the term as a generic for "deeply ingrained irrational guilt" is just casual bigotry.

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 3:10:00 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline 		I don't know about Catholic guilt, or the whole religious moral struggle with black and white, but I can say that as a total agnostic, I have major moral struggles everyday over a world that I see as frequently black and white. I've been told by everyone over the years that this is because I'm young, and that the world gets grayer with age. I kind of hope they're wrong

But yeah, moral issues are not exclusive to Catholicism, and BDSM can be a moral issue for some. I definitely do feel markedly less guilty now that I've actually been in a D/s relationship, and not just fantasizing, but there are certainly aspects of submission that will probably take awhile for me to fully come to terms with. So the religious folks are not the only ones out there feeling guilty.

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 5:11:33 PM   
DWCskitten


Posts: 199
Joined: 3/2/2010
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~
All i know is that, since i became a pagan and follow 'An it harm none, do what ye will," i DON'T HAVE sexual guilt at all. As long as it's consensual, i have absolutely no problem with it. Before that, i grew up Catholic AND tried all sorts of different churches after that. They ALL made it sound like ALL sex was dirty and evil & were all pretty much nose-to-nose in the guilt department.

Maybe a lot of people aren't as sexually liberated as they'd like to be and that's why they feel the need to convice themselves that they aren't "sick" perverted deviants. If bdsm is sick, perverted deviance, then i'm glad i am! lol

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 5:22:42 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I was born and raised Catholic...... that makes ALL sex dirty!

it's a bonus if you ask me.


Jeff


Me too---just to THINK of it is a sin!

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 5:33:24 PM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

One of the stranger abiguities I see in people practicing bdsm is the feeling that a lot of justifications are being expoused to excuse a bent for kinky sex. From the sub side-"The devil (Dom)made me do it." And they can still wear the "good girl/boy" badges.

And from the other side-some sort of justification as a benevolent paternal figure?

Why do you think this need exists for so many-validation that they aren't "sick"?


I see it from the other side, as in a release from guilt, particularly from the submissive standpoint. Much is made in the bdsm world on the value of trust, and how much trust is fostered in relationships, even among casual play partners. Control means responsibility, means if there is guilt to bear from a given act, a given session, a given relationship, it honestly is mine to bear, not my submissive's. It is through her obedience to me and her trust in me that the guilt for the content becomes mine because I have led her there and because she has placed the trust in me to know where to lead her, how to do so, and probably as importantly, when to do so. Wherever that place is, whether it be floating along in that hallucinatory state while bound and beaten, writhing in the depths of sexual revelry, or sliding along the edges of limits, the trust she puts in me places the responsibility squarely upon my shoulders. Well done it can engender a sense of freedom.

At the same time, some forms of guilt are fun to play with. My woman gets hotter than a Georgia sidewalk and wetter than India during monsoon season over being turned across a knee and spanked for being a naughty girl. So hell, i don't mind creating places for her to be naughty.

I think guilt is a large part of why some people come to bdsm, and a large part of the freedom they find within it. I also think that spending the time to truly know your partner gives you the knowledge to know where the fun might lie, and where the mine field starts. Even minefields can be traversed however, if done slowly and with patience.

I gave up the guilt a long time ago though.  I freely admit to being a perverted bastard. 


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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 5:45:57 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

One of the stranger abiguities I see in people practicing bdsm is the feeling that a lot of justifications are being expoused to excuse a bent for kinky sex. From the sub side-"The devil (Dom)made me do it." And they can still wear the "good girl/boy" badges.

And from the other side-some sort of justification as a benevolent paternal figure?

Why do you think this need exists for so many-validation that they aren't "sick"?


I've wondered this myself, and yes I understand the phrase 'catholic guilt' as you use it in your OP. (Raised Agnostic)

For a long time I felt weird about enjoying kinky sex. Sex in general. Since I was raised with an unspoken 'good girls don't' code it was just this massive internal conflict when I discovered that sex is great and kinky sex is greater.

During that time it was easier for me to be 'forced' into it, to play the reluctant virgin type. Thankfully I got past that phase (for the most part!).

I can only know why I felt the way I did, a combination of low self-esteem, upbringing and a bunch of other emotional baggage.

< Message edited by camille65 -- 3/3/2010 5:47:06 PM >

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 9:16:08 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
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Status: offline 		I hereby nominate you for membership in the AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION based upon your cross examination abilities.

------

I don't know what role "Catholic Guilt" plays with me. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school 1-5. A mix of Catholicism and a conservative family upbringing did instill in me a sense that if I was enjoying myself, something was probably wrong. I was also wired to view sex as procreation and as sin out of wedlock, and I was mortally afraid of getting anyone pregnant -- which enabled me to stay celibate with all girlfriends up to age 23. I then lost my virginity with a Jewish woman who was rather free spirited about lovemaking, but intercourse pretty much left me terrified with issues about "what I was doing."

I then followed that relationship with one with an older Russian woman of 36.

I cannot say I entered marriage with very much self knowledge or the greatest insight into who I was marrying. Like good Catholics, though, we have stuck to being married as a commitment and we do share a profound bond with one another.

I don't think the recent Popes have done American Catholics many favors with their antiquated views.

I don't go to church anymore, and I don't miss it, either.

The Archdiocese here announced today that 13 Catholic schools are being closed in the Baltimore Metro area. The school I attended 1-5 closed long ago.

My father, now 88, goes to church every day.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 3/3/2010 9:21:32 PM >

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 9:24:19 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		Dearheart,I don't really care what other people do with thier sex lives.

I used it as a gaffe to keep that kind from *hitting on me.*

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/4/2010 6:52:36 AM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

Dearheart,I don't really care what other people do with thier sex lives.

I used it as a gaffe to keep that kind from *hitting on me.*


Sunshine, with that profile, the only people *hitting on you* are scammers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I hereby nominate you for membership in the AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION based upon your cross examination abilities.


You would curse me with a flood of junkmail? ;)

quote:

I was also wired to view sex as procreation and as sin out of wedlock, and I was mortally afraid of getting anyone pregnant


Yeah... when I was 16, my dad had a Very Serious Conversation with me in which he implored me to save myself for marriage because pre-marital sex would Eat at My Soul. And he's not a crazy guy in general. Personally, I found Catholic teaching on sexuality to be so remote and unhelpful it was pretty easy to reject. Strangely, I think I experienced more guilt about masturbation than about sex. In the absence of any formal guidance of when and how one should have sex, I just kind of went with, well, hedonism, I guess. Which, acting out as a young woman in the US will run you into a lot of cultural baggage. I've never been a provocative dresser and I always valued discretion so I didn't carry the "slut" reputation. As I've gotten older and had friends go through Pre-Cana (marriage prep) classes, I've learned that the Church does actually have some useful things to teach about intimacy... that it'll share once you've found that one and only person you'll spend the rest of your life with. Seems like putting the cart before the horse to me.

In my (cradle Catholic) experience, and that of my many Catholic-reared friends, effective guilt management is just a tool of the trade one develops as one matures. I could probably generate a thousand words on my numerous objections to casting "Catholic guilt" as a generic, but I think it comes down to that sense of maturity. As in, the Catholic Church has been massaging the human psyche a lot longer than other Christian religions and the way people present "Catholic guilt" seems to focus on the grade school level. A person with a well-formed conscience tends to feel guilty for the things s/he didn't do, not the things they did.

Also, a lot of the anti-sex cultural programming people get in the US is properly cast as Puritanical, not Catholic. The Vatican can carry on about birth control all it wants, but the churches people worship in tend to err on the side of sensualism and celebration of earthly beauty. 



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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/4/2010 8:03:08 AM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		Thise two lines really have to do more with class than anything else.....The entire exhibitionistic "Wookit me wookit me! I had SEX and got PWAYED wiff!..I must be WEAL!!!"

Just sort of strike me as having no class. I'm in no hurry to hook up with anyone. ESPECIALLY someone that immature. Not a lot of time for anything serious at this point in life.

< Message edited by Smutmonger -- 3/4/2010 8:11:04 AM >

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/4/2010 11:11:41 AM   
NYLass


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quote:

ORIGINAL: maplepole

I came into this thread to find out what a catholic quilt was.  and left realizing I need glasses.




Best reply today.


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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/4/2010 12:04:07 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Catholics (well, the Vatican) is not one to preach..as they are caught with their hand in a cookie jar yet AGAIN.

Gay prostitution ring linked to Vatican
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2010/03/04/13106366-reuters.html

so guilt is not something they should be tossing around. Those stone tossers
have their own problems with sin.

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/4/2010 12:05:27 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		If, it's not Sin, it's not fun.

Kinda  like fat in food...... you know it's bad..... but it tastes sooooo goood

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/4/2010 12:07:00 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		fat tastes good?

yer a can-nibble aren't ya?

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/4/2010 12:08:18 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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Status: offline 		I will call you, "My little crisco"

Jeff

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/4/2010 12:11:13 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		*chuckles

eats more Doritoz to fatten up.

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