RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/10/2010 9:30:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

AAAAAAH ok, I thought intellectual dishonesty was the PC way of calling someone a lying bag of shit.... my bad[:D][:D][:D]
now Im gonna have to think of another word for them.
[8|][;)]



I believe you have found a distinction without difference




Musicmystery -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/10/2010 9:31:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

AAAAAAH ok, I thought intellectual dishonesty was the PC way of calling someone a lying bag of shit.... my bad[:D][:D][:D]
now Im gonna have to think of another word for them.
[8|][;)]



There are posters unable to make a point without the term.

Like many buzzwords, it's a stand-in for an actual argument.




thompsonx -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/10/2010 9:39:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

The reason he wants to go to Costa Rica, is that they are rated higher on health care by the WHO then the USA, sure they are number 36 and we are number 37, but it is a step up and we are higher than Cuba, they are number 39


He is also going to take advantage of a health care program that he has not paid a penny into...does the word parasite seem appropriate here?
He rails constantly against socialized medicine yet he says if it is implimented here he will move to a country that has socialized medicine. Clearly Rush has thought this out thoroughly and understands that he is being two faced but pragmatically recognizes the financial benifits to being a parasite.




thompsonx -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/10/2010 9:42:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

oh panda you know thats gonna make someone pout dont you
evil bugger


He, like thee and me, enjoys seeing the obtuse pout





Lucylastic -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/10/2010 9:42:46 AM)

I neither like or dislike it, there are many more things that get up my nose.
I just saw it as a polite term so one wouldnt get mod spanked[:D]




kittinSol -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/10/2010 9:49:30 AM)

An example... [8D] .

[image]local://upfiles/100518/E12F65B0C4BC43A296A716884353C0D1.jpg[/image]




thompsonx -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/10/2010 9:55:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You're not alone in that way of thinking. Dan Rather, an Obama supporter and a racist (if you can imagine) put it slightly differently. Rather said that, though Obama is articulate, he couldn't sell watermelons if the state police were flagging down motorists for him.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-dan-rather,0,6214483.story

Imagine if it had been Rush who had said it.


You are either a liar of the first order or you have a reading problem.
this is the quote you referenced from your cite.  Your reference is that this is Mr.Rathers opinion.  The below complete quote shows that this is Mr. Rathers opinion of the republicrat position.
the complete quote is:

quote:

Rather said the GOP would say, "Listen, he's a nice person, he's very articulate. This is what's going to be used against him. But, he [President Obama] couldn't sell watermelons if you gave him the state troopers to flag down the traffic."


My advice is either learn to read or please stop telling lies that are so easy to spot




Lucylastic -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/10/2010 12:00:55 PM)

OK the latest on the rush sitch is he had to CLARIFY (means back down from his claim) that he is NOT moving to Costa lot or where it was, he is just going to go there for his medical care as his friends are going to set up expensive clinics with expensive doctors to give expensive care to those who can afford it out of the way of the poor and undeserving.
I love the way he "clarifies his position" everytime he fucks up





Musicmystery -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/10/2010 12:09:50 PM)

quote:

I love the way he "clarifies his position" everytime he fucks up


It's not like his audience is exactly discriminating.






maybemaybenot -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/10/2010 3:31:49 PM)

NM [:D]




cadenas -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/11/2010 8:03:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
No, you are right, tort reform won't make a huge difference but .5 to 1.5 is something and it is something that will shut up the docs and hospitals who whine about it.  As I understand tort reform it would still allow punative damages for criminally negligence as it should.


Tort reform will be coming for the simple reason that it is politically expedient - it's a bone that the Democrats have already thrown the Republicans (the Republicans still keep talking about it as if it wasn't part of the bill, but it has actually been added months ago).

For that matter, we have implemented tort reform before, primarily on the state level, and it shows that tort reform isn't working. States with tort reform do not have lower costs than states without tort reform.


At the same time, tort reform is actually a very bad idea and increases cost. For one, it encourages sloppy work by physicians. After all, you have to get hurt before you can sue! Judges have become very effective of rejecting frivolous lawsuits before they ever come to trial; the number of medical lawsuits where the patient wasn't legitimately hurt is now minimal.

For another, it leaves patients on the hook for fixing doctor's mistakes. Doctor left a pair of scissors in your belly after an appendectomy? If you can't sue the doctor, you have to come up yourself with another couple thousand dollars to pay for the surgery to fix it.

And tort reform really doesn't make one iota of difference. We are talking about 10% or more PER YEAR of increase in health care cost. 0.5% or 1.5% just plain does not make a difference.

Finally, it wouldn't change the cost of malpractice insurance premiums. That is because the cause of the premium increase has nothing to do with lawsuits (that cost hasn't changed much since at least the 1980s). Rather, the reason is the same AIG collapsed: investment losses. The business model of insurance companies is actually quite interesting, and not what you'd expect.

What would you do if you had a million dollars, but only for ten years, and then have to repay it? You would invest it, double or triple the money, and at the end of ten years, you'd keep whatever was left. That's exactly how insurance companies make money. The initial seed money comes from your premiums. After a number of years, they have to pay out claims. But in the meantime, they can do with the money what they want.

It gets better: insurance companies can afford to make very risky investments that sometimes pay huge rewards. If they win, the insurance company makes a profit. If the investment goes wrong, they raise the premiums to recoup the loss. It's a no-lose business model! Well, except for AIG - the investment losses got so big and they couldn't raise their premiums fast enough.

And that's exactly what happened to the malpractice insurance: after the dotcom crash, insurance companies had to recoup the investment losses. So the premium went up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
I keep saying it, but no one wants to do it.  The biggest way to decrease heathcare costs is to be individually responsible for ones own health and not sit around and wait until one has a chronic or acute condition.  How many people absolutely refuse to go to a doctor until they whisked away in an ambulance?  Unfortunately, a lot of people.


Have you ever thought about why? Part of it is that too many people can't afford insurance and can't afford a doctor's visit.

Part of it is that if the doctor does find something, you are then stuck with a preexisting condition that will make you uninsurable - and unemployable - in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
Even people who have insurance don't want to do the regular maintenance on their bodies that they would never dream to neglect for their cars.  Wellness costs less than illness.  We want the option to sue if the doctor or hospital is negligent, but we won't even admit to our own negligence.

How many people get their blood work done every year?  It could show a trend toward diabetes that could be controlled by simple lifestyle changes.  I'm just sayin' we wouldn't neglect to get an oil change for the car and we just can't find the time or money to get regular health screenings. 


The catch is that the same trend towards diabetes would then also show up in the doctor's records as a preexisting condition. Right now, I can't afford health insurance - and if health care reform doesn't pass, I need to keep my medical record clean of preexisting conditions in case I later can afford it again. Perverse as it is, I'd rather not know about such a "trend towards diabetes".

What is worse is that such a preexisting condition also makes you unemployable. I've already lost one job because my girlfriend had a preexisting condition and the employer's insurance company must have told them that their premiums will go up thousands of dollars. Sure, it's illegal - but it's impossible to prove. But it doesn't seem like a coincidence that I was fired the exact day the health insurance for her would have kicked in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
But our current system is broken.  I think we need to explore all options to fix it and so I advocate some kind of tort reform even if it saves just a little.  If I put just 1.5% of my pay in a savings account, at the end of the year I'd have enough for a nice little weekend getaway.  Not a lavish vacation, but something nice.  When we are talking billions,  1.5% savings would also be nice.


No. If you put away 1.5% per year while the costs rise 10% per year, you won't have enough for a weekend getaway. You won't have a dime. You still lose money at a rate of 8.5%.





Moonhead -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/11/2010 2:22:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I love the way he "clarifies his position" everytime he fucks up


It's not like his audience is exactly discriminating.




They wouldn't be his audience if they were, would they?




domiguy -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/11/2010 2:33:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I might support Obama care when every member of the House and Senate use the same plan we will be forced to use...


I will not fly till I get to use Air Force One.


Why are you such an angry little man?




Sanity -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/12/2010 7:09:30 AM)


I was once displeased that the far left had taken the reigns of power via the false pretense of being centrists. However, this whole thing is really turning out to be far better than a day at a very good circus!  [:)]


quote:

If Democrats ignore health-care polls, midterms will be costly

In "The March of Folly," Barbara Tuchman asked, "Why do holders of high office so often act contrary to the way reason points and enlightened self-interest suggests?" Her assessment of self-deception -- "acting according to wish while not allowing oneself to be deflected by the facts" -- captures the conditions that are gripping President Obama and the Democratic Party leadership as they renew their efforts to enact health-care reform.


Their blind persistence in the face of reality threatens to turn this political march of folly into an electoral rout in November. In the wake of the stinging loss in Massachusetts, there was a moment when the president and the Democratic leadership seemed to realize the reality of the health-care situation. Yet like some seductive siren of Greek mythology, the lure of health-care reform has arisen again. As pollsters to the past two Democratic presidents, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, respectively, we feel compelled to challenge the myths that seem to be prevailing in the political discourse and to once again urge a change in course before it is too late. At stake is the kind of mainstream, common-sense Democratic Party that we believe is crucial to the success of the American enterprise.  Bluntly put, this is the political reality:


First, the battle for public opinion has been lost. Comprehensive health care has been lost. If it fails, as appears possible, Democrats will face the brunt of the electorate's reaction. If it passes, however, Democrats will face a far greater calamitous reaction at the polls. Wishing, praying or pretending will not change these outcomes. Nothing has been more disconcerting than to watch Democratic politicians and their media supporters deceive themselves into believing that the public favors the Democrats' current health-care plan. Yes, most Americans believe, as we do, that real health-care reform is needed. And yes, certain proposals in the plan are supported by the public.


However, a solid majority of Americans opposes the massive health-reform plan. Four-fifths of those who oppose the plan strongly oppose it, according to Rasmussen polling this week, while only half of those who support the plan do so strongly. Many more Americans believe the legislation will worsen their health care, cost them more personally and add significantly to the national deficit. Never in our experience as pollsters can we recall such self-deluding misconstruction of survey data.


Read the rest at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/11/AR2010031102904.html





tazzygirl -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/12/2010 8:30:00 AM)

Jacking off feels good, huh Sanity?

No need to get that excited. Honestly.

Even the republicans admit it will be passed.




Musicmystery -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/12/2010 8:33:22 AM)

quote:

the far left had taken the reigns of power via the false pretense of being centrists.


Yeah. Right.

Actually, the moderately left elected are governing far to the right of those positions, pissing off mainly progressives.

And to the blind religiously adherent to the right, anything not strictly conservative is "far left."

The world is not left/right. If you believe that, you are a fool, being played by your leaders.




Sanity -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/12/2010 11:24:59 AM)


Politics are left and right, and thats what we're discussing. And which side Obama's on all depends on who he's reading his teleprompter to, doesn't it. One day he's in Iowa telling audiences that he's a staunch fiscal conservative who's going to balance the books, and that he reverently goes to church every Sunday. The next day he's in Hollywood disparaging Midwesterners, claiming they're all ignorant hicks who cling to guns and religion...

One day he's a coal miners' best friend. The next, we're all gonna die if we don't shut down big coal for good.

Sure, Obama's a moderate alright, after you average all the varying positions he takes.

[:D]






Sanity -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/12/2010 11:28:05 AM)


Yeah, of course jacking off feels good, does that offend you? I never knew you were such an icy little prude!


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Jacking off feels good, huh Sanity?

No need to get that excited. Honestly.

Even the republicans admit it will be passed.




tazzygirl -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/12/2010 11:31:44 AM)

~chuckles

Wrong again, Sanity, But then again, you are often wrong.

Im icey with men who find politics sexually stimulating when said politics adds to their own bank accounts and screws over the rest of the nation.

A red blooded american man turns that ice to steam!

ah... such men... far too few found on these boards.




Musicmystery -> RE: The BEST reason yet to pass Healthcare Reform (3/12/2010 11:44:26 AM)

quote:

Politics are left and right, and thats what we're discussing.


They really aren't, except in the minds of those standing on either extreme.




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