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RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 9:48:43 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

there is currently no "nursing shortage"
quote:

Nurses are working shorter staffed than ever before, patients loads have increased

Seems short based on this.


The MBA's who call the shots don't think so.

quote:

Hospitals are *not* filling open positions and are making their staff work short.

quote:


This is true everywhere right now, not just nursing. Different factors at work.

As the recovery begins to extend to jobs later this year, these situations will begin to improve.

What gets lost in the passion of this rhetoric is indeed economic essentials. Complain as they might, at a certain point, business (and hospitals) have to hire, whether they wish to or not, as volume increases.


We disagree that this is going to improve if this bill passes. I believe this bill is going to slow down the economy again. I believe they will shed jobs to cut costs so they keep profits up.

quote:



Now, if you can convince me that fewer people will be seeking medical care, I'm ready to listen to your case for that. But that doesn't seem likely for a few decades at least.



Not likely I agree but I think you wrong in your evaluation of how this is going to play out.

< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 3/19/2010 9:49:22 AM >

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 9:49:40 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Master Tim

Many states regulate nursing hours and nurse - to - patient ratios. Increasing hours or decreasing staffing isnt a simple process.

http://www.nursingworld.org/mainmenucategories/ANAPoliticalPower/State/StateLegislativeAgenda/MandatoryOvertime.aspx

_____________________________

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RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 9:51:40 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Here again is my problem with your claim.

It IS inelastic, second perhaps only to food essentials. So where exactly is this demand going to vanish to? Especially as Baby Boomers age?




Siggghhhh. You must need coffee this morning.

The demand wont go anywhere, its the supply that will shrink. What happens when labor demand exceeds supply? In a free market, salaries go up and the demand is filled.

In a price controlled market the demand isnt filled. Initially inefficiencies are squeezed out (if they arent even further regulated, which they will be under nationalized health care), and then quality and quanity of services go down. Obama can fool the sheep, but he cant create supply by squeezing out the incentives.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 10:18:41 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		Really ask the nurses in CA who are have nurse to patients ratios how well that has worked for them? You know what they did tazzy, they changed the names of the type of units and moved patients around to avoid falling under the lower ratios. Now nurses on med-surg floors, get tele patients and so on. On the floors where they were forced to lower ratios, they did away with PCA's and unit clerks, so the nurses get to do it all now. The administration is always one step ahead to protect the bottom line.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Master Tim

Many states regulate nursing hours and nurse - to - patient ratios. Increasing hours or decreasing staffing isnt a simple process.

http://www.nursingworld.org/mainmenucategories/ANAPoliticalPower/State/StateLegislativeAgenda/MandatoryOvertime.aspx


_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 10:31:48 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Those are interesting sites tazzy and Beingchewsie.,

especially since the 'nursing' aspect cannot be over-looked. Does anyone have the stats on ratio-per patient there? (a few states preferably, for comparason country wide would be good)

ours is
http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/health/resources/nursing/poptpnurseratio1996/1, and we do have a nursing shortage. I do worry about what will happen if your ...(not if, uhhg, seems they are passing it through) WHEN the bill officially passes, if the rates will change or income levels etc and if it will eventually balance out (and our shortage will be relieved since nurses will return to Canada---since they won't be recieving the higher rates that the US pays them.

Do either of you girls have the specifics on any latest studies on the ratios?? Very curious to see the patterns and difference. I'd hope it can be predicted from reading them to understand the value of changes that will come.

oops had wrong link first time.

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/19/2010 10:40:12 AM >

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RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 10:34:58 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

One would think, were they familar with your actual political postings....



Are you familiar with your own postings?

Here, let me help:

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Why isn't President Obama and Democrats Party leadership supporting running a fine tooth comb and taking extra ordinary time to make sure this bill is exact and thorough before the vote on it.....



This was from December when you were preaching the Republican talking point of how the legislation was being rushed through and we should take more time with it.

Now you are criticizing it for not taking effect quickly enough?



(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 10:57:35 AM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Thats twice you referred to me as "slave"..let me ask you something FDD.....do I come here acting all slavely or something?
Or are you somehow confusing a lifestyle choice as an actual occupation or state of being?



Isn't it a name?

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 11:01:06 AM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

What's the matter with October 1st???


Given the number of Presidential "deadlines" that proved to be nothing but rhetoric, what makes you think they'd pass the thing by then?



October 1st is one of those yearly days when many new federal laws go into effect.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 11:07:36 AM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

One would think, were they familar with your actual political postings....



Are you familiar with your own postings?

Here, let me help:

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Why isn't President Obama and Democrats Party leadership supporting running a fine tooth comb and taking extra ordinary time to make sure this bill is exact and thorough before the vote on it.....



This was from December when you were preaching the Republican talking point of how the legislation was being rushed through and we should take more time with it.

Now you are criticizing it for not taking effect quickly enough?






Those are two different points.

The December post is about crafing the actual law, which if he did, they might get it running three years faster.

The current thread is about the poorly crafted bill possibly being voted on Sunday, taking 4 years to go into effect.

Surely you see that right?

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 11:11:57 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Like most people, if I have to pay for something I'll do what I can to keep costs down. Medicate my own cold or flu, even rehabilitate my own tendinitis, its not all rocket science. And I really hate doctors...

I've found that with some time spent on research and with some common sense, some self treatment can be very practical.

BUT, if the government is paying, why not go in? In other words, I think that demand for medical care has the potential to skyrocket under Obamacare while the bureaucrats and providers scramble to contain costs and find additional help at the same time while the elderly and those others who are in dire need will suffer the most.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Now, if you can convince me that fewer people will be seeking medical care, I'm ready to listen to your case for that. But that doesn't seem likely for a few decades at least.






< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/19/2010 11:12:22 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 11:13:45 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

I've found that with some time spent on research and with some common sense, some self treatment can be very practical.


sigh with codex alimentarius coming into effect / law soon enough, even that will be impossible someday I'm afraid.

quote:

I think that demand for medical care has the potential to skyrocket under Obamacare while the bureaucrats and providers scramble to contain costs and find additional help at the same time while the elderly and those others who are in dire need will suffer the most.


is also why I wanted to see some stats, the nursing community might be overwhelmed initially. I suspect there 'might' be a high probability of a mad rush for care, in the beginning until all calms down. Thus why TONS of local clinics would be a good idea until it all mellows out.

It would be sad to see people covered and then having to go by some sort of med-rationing phase. uhhg

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/19/2010 11:27:06 AM >

_____________________________

It hurts.....that you call me a masochist


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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 2:13:05 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Would you be happier if it happened effective Monday?


Wouldn't you???

Again, it is your side that is saying women and childern will be dying if this isn't past Sunday.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 2:27:49 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Thats twice you referred to me as "slave"..let me ask you something FDD.....do I come here acting all slavely or something?
Or are you somehow confusing a lifestyle choice as an actual occupation or state of being?



Isn't it a name?
Yeah so is Fat...would you prefer I refer to you as Fatty?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... - 3/19/2010 2:31:46 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Like most people, if I have to pay for something I'll do what I can to keep costs down. Medicate my own cold or flu, even rehabilitate my own tendinitis, its not all rocket science. And I really hate doctors...

I've found that with some time spent on research and with some common sense, some self treatment can be very practical.

BUT, if the government is paying, why not go in? In other words, I think that demand for medical care has the potential to skyrocket under Obamacare while the bureaucrats and providers scramble to contain costs and find additional help at the same time while the elderly and those others who are in dire need will suffer the most.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Now, if you can convince me that fewer people will be seeking medical care, I'm ready to listen to your case for that. But that doesn't seem likely for a few decades at least.





Are you implying that simply due to the government footing the bill(more bullshit from you,we are the gov,silly) you would voluntarily squander  your most precious resource...namely your time...for soemthing you are capable of adressing at home?
You are even sillier than I previously thought?
edited for typos

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 3/19/2010 2:36:09 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 74
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