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RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 2:53:23 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I'm a virgin now, Huntie!

Ron

Ah, I thought you were using the soft serve as a lure.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 2:53:49 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Are you going to soon argue that Hiroshima and Nagisaki were good reasons for the attack on Hawaii?


I haven't a clue what you are talking about and I doubt that you do either.

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RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 2:57:44 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I said:
Do you find anything wrong with bombing women and children and other non combatants? 
You said:
I find nothing wrong with destroying the enemies means of production.
But you did not answer the question



It is called total war and in some ways is more civilised than allowing conflicts to go on and on.
War is a bitch...total war,it would follow...is a total bitch.
Having said that ,let me add that in no way shape or form am I going to allow you to drag me into another of your pointless little debates where WWII is concerned.

It would make sense for you not to engage in discussing things of which you have no knowledge.


Your views are ,quite frankly off the rails(as I suspect you are too)and all it leads to is going round and round with you.....I have better things to do.

You may feel that my views are off the rails but so far you have not been able to refute any of  them.

Refute any of them?
What makes you think it is my job to set you straight...I devoted a large segment of one afternoon in just that pursuit.....you failed to learn anything on that occasion....I have no confidence that you have grown wiser in the interim.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:00:00 PM   
Thadius


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Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Are you going to soon argue that Hiroshima and Nagisaki were good reasons for the attack on Hawaii?


I haven't a clue what you are talking about and I doubt that you do either.

I must have misunderstood your remarks and position surrounding "Bomber Harris", I thought you were on your usual bash the allies thing and suggesting that Harris was somehow the rationale for the blitz.

Guess I was wrong.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:00:17 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I'm a virgin now, Huntie!

Ron


So you've gone and got an episiotomy...well good on ya... that flappy ol thang needed a couple of stitches taken in it.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:12:39 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		I must have misunderstood your remarks and position surrounding "Bomber Harris", I thought you were on your usual bash the allies thing and suggesting that Harris was somehow the rationale for the blitz.

Guess I was wrong.

History tells us that Harris was following orders from the very top.
As Lady E,quite correctly, pointed out the RAF rather discouraged the luftwaffe from pressing on with their terror bombing of non combatants.
The Anglo-American airforces had strategic bombers in numbers that the Axis could not contend with.
The carpet bombing of Germany comes after the "Blitz" not before.

I do not know where you get this "bash the allies" crap. 
What I have pointed out is that the Anglo-American alliance was crucial in the shaping of the map of Europe after the war but played a rather small part in the prosecution of that war.

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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:22:02 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I must have misunderstood your remarks and position surrounding "Bomber Harris", I thought you were on your usual bash the allies thing and suggesting that Harris was somehow the rationale for the blitz.

Guess I was wrong.

History tells us that Harris was following orders from the very top.
As Lady E,quite correctly, pointed out the RAF rather discouraged the luftwaffe from pressing on with their terror bombing of non combatants.
The Anglo-American airforces had strategic bombers in numbers that the Axis could not contend with.
The carpet bombing of Germany comes after the "Blitz" not before.

I do not know where you get this "bash the allies" crap. 
What I have pointed out is that the Anglo-American alliance was crucial in the shaping of the map of Europe after the war but played a rather small part in the prosecution of that war.

That is why I responded the way I did concerning Hawaii, I thought you were putting the cart ahead of the horse.

I am confused though, you in one paragraph suggest that the Anglo-American bombers kept the Axis in check, yet suggest that they played a small part in the prosecution of the war... how do those add up?

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:25:43 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Perhaps what it will take, is some of the soldiers on these forums to reveal the nitty gritty, the actuality of  killing for one's country for people to understand the reality beyond what the politicians say.

And then we as voters may decide.



Truly I can not think of anything worse than letting voters decide whether or not a war should be waged.

Since he's already been brought up a few times...

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
-Winston Churchill

I cite this forum as Exhibit A.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:35:11 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		I am confused though, you in one paragraph suggest that the Anglo-American bombers kept the Axis in check, yet suggest that they played a small part in the prosecution of the war... how do those add up?

The Anglo-American bombers led to extreemly high  scoring aces for the Germans.
Any serious study of that conflict would necessarily lead one to count the bodies.  The body bag count for the Anglo-Americans is pretty low when contrasted with the other players.
What do you think would have happened if the Anglo,-American armies had suffered 350,000 battle deaths in the first sixty days of the war?  Consider that U.S. battle deaths for the whole war on all fronts was only about a quarter of a million.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/6/2010 3:39:50 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:38:05 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		What makes you think it is my job to set you straight.

So far you have been singularly unsuccessful in doing anything except call me names.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:46:14 PM   
slvemike4u


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

What makes you think it is my job to set you straight.

So far you have been singularly unsuccessful in doing anything except call me names.
Each and everyone of them richly deserved.....but I would be more than happy to discontinue engaging you entirely...if you could grant me the same favor?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:47:36 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I am confused though, you in one paragraph suggest that the Anglo-American bombers kept the Axis in check, yet suggest that they played a small part in the prosecution of the war... how do those add up?

The Anglo-American bombers led to extreemly high  scoring aces for the Germans.
Any serious study of that conflict would necessarily lead one to count the bodies.  The body bags for the Anglo-Americans is pretty low when contrasted with the other players.
What do you think would have happened if the Anglo,-American armies had suffered 350,000 battle deaths in the first sixty days of the war?  Consider that U.S. battle deaths for the whole war on all fronts was only about a quarter of a million.

So we are going to declare how much involvement or how much impact each nation had on the war based on the number of lives lost by their side? That is a bit of a stretch. Simply stated, it doesn't take into account tactics, weapons, or equipment, much less training or ability. It also doesn't take into account that some units (air, sea, or land) simply got lucky.

One could easily argue that if there was no error in judgement made regarding refueling and rearming the battle of Midway would have turned out differently, and its effects on the Pacific theater would have been devistating. Bastogne could have changed a great deal, so could the simple delay of Hitler's move towards Russia, or how about a slight change in tactics at Normandy?

While body counts can be a useful tool in judging just how bloody a battle was, or in evaluating the tactical decisions made, it definitely isn't a measure of how much influence a side had on the overall war, much less on the effects that one of the winning sides had on it (as the victors normally have much less loss of life, not always but as a rule of thumb).

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:52:23 PM   
slvemike4u


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From: United States
Status: offline 		Nor does it take into account German unwillingness to retreat or surrender in the face of Russian advances.As the war ended German troops on the western front were much more likely to surrender to the western powers than those on the eastern front were.Troops fighting the Russians were ,with good reason more likely to fight to the bitter end...driving up all casualties in that theater.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:53:39 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


The Anglo-American bombers led to extreemly high  scoring aces for the Germans.
Any serious study of that conflict would necessarily lead one to count the bodies.  The body bag count for the Anglo-Americans is pretty low when contrasted with the other players.
What do you think would have happened if the Anglo,-American armies had suffered 350,000 battle deaths in the first sixty days of the war?  Consider that U.S. battle deaths for the whole war on all fronts was only about a quarter of a million.


According to this logic, the Russians lost the war.

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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:54:53 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Please don't look for logic in his WW II shit....it just isn't there!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:57:55 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Define carpet bombing.
I do not deny that the blitz occured or that civilians were targeted.
My point was that it was started by the Britts and carried to its logical fruition under the direction of "Bomber Harris".

If I remember correctly Churchill was a conservative who was called upon to form a government after Chamberlin stepped down.
He was also voted out within days of the defeat of Germany.


Firstly, carpet bombing, as a tactic, was used by the Germans in the Spanish Civil War.
Secondly, the first bombing attack on a civilian area in ww2 was on London
Thirdly, conservative  Churchill or not, the war time government was a coalition

All three facts are easily checkable.

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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 3:58:28 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Please don't look for logic in his WW II shit....it just isn't there!


LOL

Fair enough, I just can't believe anyone would try to boil it down to that. It also completely ignores things like, oh, where the war was fought.

The US casualties were low compared to the Reich's...there were no battles fought on US soil. In Vietnam, there were probably 100 times as many Vietnamese killed than US soldiers, which has everything to do with the fact it was fought on their land and nothing at all to do with who won.

But again, the fact that one allied nation alone lost more people than the entire axis combined is enough to question the merits of the "body bag theory"

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 4:05:08 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		His entire point is that the western allies had a negligible effect on the outcome of the war.So he spouts statisics and such that,when viewed thru a predetermined prism tend to support his already arrived at misconceptions.
The fact that we armed ,to varying degrees,each and every one of the Allied powers....does not matter to him...The fact that the Luftwaffe spent itself against the RAF matters not to him.....with him its the Russians...Russians ...Russians.
And a cursory look at the numbers of men engaged on each respective front would of course reinforce this misconception....but as Thad pointed out that in no way takes into account tactics nor strategies and such...ahh well,he's allowed to hold onto his fantasies.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 4:41:28 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Define carpet bombing.
I do not deny that the blitz occured or that civilians were targeted.
My point was that it was started by the Britts and carried to its logical fruition under the direction of "Bomber Harris".

If I remember correctly Churchill was a conservative who was called upon to form a government after Chamberlin stepped down.
He was also voted out within days of the defeat of Germany.


Firstly, carpet bombing, as a tactic, was used by the Germans in the Spanish Civil War.
Secondly, the first bombing attack on a civilian area in ww2 was on London
Thirdly, conservative  Churchill or not, the war time government was a coalition

All three facts are easily checkable.


You still have yet to define "carpet bombing".
According to Churchill he picked all the leaders  of the coalition as well as appointing key members of the opposition to government agencies that would be sure to keep them busy and out of mischief.
You do remember that he was twice to face a vote of no confidence  and was tossed from office before the ink was dry on the surrender document.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our militar... - 4/6/2010 4:42:33 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Perhaps what it will take, is some of the soldiers on these forums to reveal the nitty gritty, the actuality of  killing for one's country for people to understand the reality beyond what the politicians say.

And then we as voters may decide.



Truly I can not think of anything worse than letting voters decide whether or not a war should be waged.

Since he's already been brought up a few times...

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
-Winston Churchill

I cite this forum as Exhibit A.


I don't think you understand what I was getting at with my closing sentence.

Politicians are elected to run countries, they are not god, they are not anything other than what they are elected to be, the voter can empower them, and disempower them, that is the way of democracy.

War not only depletes the gene pool, but also depletes a country of wealth in monetery terms, chemical, mineral and whatever other that is required to come out on top.

Post war a  winning country often nearly collapses, normal life, back to old times is hard to complete as so much has changed, materials that were once obtainable now become scarce and the money simply is not there. Britain I believe rationing of food  and materials only finished in 1952, seven years after the end of hostilities

As to Churchill, he was a of a different class to the average voter, he could not see what the average voter could see, because of his dissimilar upbringing. He might have been good in the war years, but after the war, he was voted out of power.



< Message edited by Aneirin -- 4/6/2010 4:47:47 PM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Profile   Post #: 160
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