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Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a cure? - 4/11/2010 7:41:59 PM

OrpheusAgonistes

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A friend of mine just started reading Venus in Furs, and she's been talking about it enough that the book has been on my mind. After his final humiliation, of course, Severin pronounces himself "cured" of his desire to serve at the whims of a cruel and capricious woman. He goes on to declare (in the spirit of the times) that, having rejected one extreme he has rushed off to embrace the other, and now feels that a woman's rightful place is at the feet of a powerful man.

Now I'm excluding the so-called "submissive nature" from this question because I side with people who draw distinctions between submission and masochism. The urges sometimes, but don't always, coexist. I don't see anything self-destructive about submissive impulses (though I also don't experience them very often or very intensely). But masochism....

For me, after my masochistic urges have been consummated often and intensely enough, I generally find myself "repenting." I'm convinced that the daemon of masochism has been exorcised for the final time. This feeling generally lasts a day, two at the most. But there are definitely times, however brief, when I find myself struggling against my inclinations.

I don't self-harm (other kinds of adrenaline and endorphin rushes are preferable), I don't self-sabotage, and I don't feel any kind of vestigial religious guilt. So there is no obvious stain on my quotidian life formed by masochistic inclinations; but sometimes I just rebel against my own (rather deep, rather strong) urges.

So I find myself asking:

Is masochism a disease? Do you want a cure? Is masochism inherently a form of self-destruction? And the part of me that has seen Fight Club too many times (because Brad Pitt looks funny in a fluffy bathrobe, that's why) gives the last question a vagrant twist and says "Is this particular kind of self-destruction really self-realization?"

_____________________________

What I cannot create, I do not understand.--Feynman

Every sentence I have written here is the product of some disease.-- Wittgenstein

Post #: 1

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/11/2010 9:10:48 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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It's an affliction if it impacts your life negatively.
So if you routinely pick fights in biker bars to get your pain needs met, then that's a problem. As long as you are negotiating for safe play with safe players and aren't blowing off your responsibilities then no, it isn't.

And instead of religious guilt, how about just societal messages which say men shouldn't get beat up?

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 4/11/2010 9:12:05 PM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to OrpheusAgonistes)

Post #: 2

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/11/2010 9:17:52 PM

OrpheusAgonistes

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Joined: 3/29/2010
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quote:

And instead of religious guilt, how about just societal messages which say men shouldn't get beat up?

Astute point, though I never really bought into those either. In junior high, when a girl tried to beat you up it meant she was into you. In some ways, I never really outgrew that particular worldview. In some ways, in fact, it never stopped being true.

_____________________________

What I cannot create, I do not understand.--Feynman

Every sentence I have written here is the product of some disease.-- Wittgenstein

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 3

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 4:34:08 AM

lally2

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Joined: 4/16/2009
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if i was to look for a cure id end up doing myself out of 99.9% of the Dominants in my catchment. where would my submissive needs within a relationship go then.

BDSM became part of this because i realised it had to be. in time ive grown to really enjoy some aspects and in some areas i want to explore more and more. there is so much to explore and so much i havent yet explored about myself.

alot of it has been a growing curve for me, being pushed to stretch and finding resources inside of myself i never knew i had. in that is part of the addiction now.

so i came at this in a slightly different direction to you maybe. i came looking for Ds and ended up embracing BDSM as part of that. i doubt i could do without the BDSM now because its become an integral part of my submission.

if anything at all, i think i need to explore the BDSM more and let whatever Ds that occurs come along if it wants to. its a phase im not completely happy with, but im runing with it because i have no choice really -

whats so fascinating about all of this is how you change and grow as you go along. whats 'fun' is that i have no idea how it will all pan out, this phase im going through for instance - ive no idea where it will end.

but i did smile at myself this morning. it occurred to me that in realising a deep need in me that has been burning away for years actually, it might just be the one catharsis i need to 'cure' me. but i dont think so - because whilst the physical catharsis might satiate me for a time, my submissive personality and needs within a relationship will never go away.

you separate the two and i fully understand what you mean. it is of course totally possible to submit youre body to play but not youre heart and mind. but for me the two tie together - i cant submit to play unless im submissive in spirit and mind to the man im with.

so in short, i guess im incurable

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to OrpheusAgonistes)

Post #: 4

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 4:42:58 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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I can understand that the girl hitting you means she likes you, and that is true with a domme partner. But at the same time the girls were punching you in the arm, were the guys teasing you? Because that's two separate messages, right there.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 5

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 4:53:08 AM

OrpheusAgonistes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I can understand that the girl hitting you means she likes you, and that is true with a domme partner. But at the same time the girls were punching you in the arm, were the guys teasing you? Because that's two separate messages, right there.

A little. But I was popular, so I teased them back about how chicks dug me and I dug chicks right back. Also, sometimes I'd rough a guy up a little bit to remind them that I could. Girls get to hit me. Boys don't get to hit me.

But again, I understand and appreciate the point you're making. I'm just kind of a weird case, because I was always the smartest and usually one of the strongest/most athletic guys in the room. So I got a pass out of a lot of the hassling guys do to each other, or else gave better than I got.

_____________________________

What I cannot create, I do not understand.--Feynman

Every sentence I have written here is the product of some disease.-- Wittgenstein

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 6

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 4:58:38 AM

OrpheusAgonistes

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Joined: 3/29/2010
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quote:

but i did smile at myself this morning. it occurred to me that in realising a deep need in me that has been burning away for years actually, it might just be the one catharsis i need to 'cure' me. but i dont think so - because whilst the physical catharsis might satiate me for a time, my submissive personality and needs within a relationship will never go away.

My intuition is that this is my position too, only substitute "masochist" for "submissive." I too occasionally have grand, elaborate, cathartic scenarios that burn hot in my mind and will be realized like a nuclear explosion. But at the end, the same cycle obtains, perhaps even a little more intense and debauched.

Still, I worry--when I'm old and my hair is receding and my body has gone and gone to dogs will I even be able to find the kind of debauchery I need anymore? Or will I be unmarketable? If the latter, then give me a cure sometime in the next few years! A vexing problem indeed.

_____________________________

What I cannot create, I do not understand.--Feynman

Every sentence I have written here is the product of some disease.-- Wittgenstein

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 7

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 5:12:25 AM

lally2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrpheusAgonistes

quote:

but i did smile at myself this morning. it occurred to me that in realising a deep need in me that has been burning away for years actually, it might just be the one catharsis i need to 'cure' me. but i dont think so - because whilst the physical catharsis might satiate me for a time, my submissive personality and needs within a relationship will never go away.

My intuition is that this is my position too, only substitute "masochist" for "submissive." I too occasionally have grand, elaborate, cathartic scenarios that burn hot in my mind and will be realized like a nuclear explosion. But at the end, the same cycle obtains, perhaps even a little more intense and debauched.

Still, I worry--when I'm old and my hair is receding and my body has gone and gone to dogs will I even be able to find the kind of debauchery I need anymore? Or will I be unmarketable? If the latter, then give me a cure sometime in the next few years! A vexing problem indeed.

smile))) - im hoping that as i get older my urges will get less - but who knows) burn bright now is all i can say, never worry about tomorrow - and keep hitting the gym, stay fit and healthy - as you age so does everyone else and im guessing if there is no cure, by then there will be plenty of us oldies showing the newbies how its done!

- and if there is a cure just by dint of getting older then youll have a heap of crazy memories to keep you warm and smiling as they change youre diaper and feed you mush through a straw.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to OrpheusAgonistes)

Post #: 8

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 5:22:04 AM

OttersSwim

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Joined: 9/1/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

...you separate the two and i fully understand what you mean. it is of course totally possible to submit youre body to play but not youre heart and mind. but for me the two tie together - i cant submit to play unless im submissive in spirit and mind to the man im with.

so in short, i guess im incurable

This is also where I sit. Heart and butt go hand in hand. I am in a love relationship in which physical play is only one component of a much larger scene of life, of Her domination and my submission. In order to have even just the vanilla wonderfulness of being with her in relationship, I would let her beat me to a jelly every day...err...well, I think folk will take my meaning....

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to lally2)

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RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 6:18:59 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I will be directing clip to this thread.

From the other side of the kneel, there is a part of Me that would understand if clip wanted to be cured of such an affliction. It isn't always easy for him. The periods that we have been separated and his wants go unmet aren't especially easy.

At the same time, if he was "cured" there would be a big hole. Part of what brought us together in the first place was My sadism that fit his masochism. It would leave something unfulfilled if we were no longer evenly matched. I think we would lose something very important if that were to happen.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to OttersSwim)

Post #: 10

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 6:39:08 AM

choccywoc

Posts: 1919
Joined: 9/7/2009
Status: offline

Relax, their is'nt a cure, even if anyone really wanted one, you may well think you are free, but you will always come back. The simple truth is, if you are born with it, you're stuck with it, you may as well try and make the best of it, good or bad.

(in reply to OrpheusAgonistes)

Post #: 11

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 7:33:28 AM

slavekal

Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
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It is not a disease. There is no cure. In the same way that homosexuality cannot be prayed or therapied away, my need to submit to dominant women cannot be cured. It is silly to try. You have to accept who and what you are. That is the only way to live a happy, honest life.

_____________________________

"The Courage to Submit: the submissive male's guide to finding a dominant woman"
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/the-courage-to-submit-the-guide-for-the-submissive-male-seeking-a-dominant-woman/5968917

(in reply to OrpheusAgonistes)

Post #: 12

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 10:09:15 AM

RedMagic1

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I think it's possible to "de-fetishize" oneself, at least for many people. I've realized most of my sexual fantasies, and I've helped women realized some of theirs -- and the women I'm thinking of had fantasies that were out-there impact play. Baseball bat, stomach punching, pain that takes you to the hospital if you don't walk the razor's edge.

After all that, what's my favorite activity today? Nilla cuddling. Far and away. I don't think I'm unique, either, because I've had r/l conversations, and seen many posts here, from people who said that as they gained BDSM experience in real, the psychological control kink had over their lives diminished.

I'll never be "normal," and I have no wish to try to be, but I think I'm sexually compatible with a broader spectrum of exploratory women than I was five years ago. And that's a good thing.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to slavekal)

Post #: 13

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 11:25:24 AM

kanina

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Joined: 11/19/2009
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Is masochism a disease?
it depends, if the person feels good with it...it isn´t in my opinion, since i am one i don´t feel that it is...

Do you want a cure?
no, i have no problem with it, i'm in peace

Is masochism inherently a form of self-destruction?
To me it isn´t, i do not like to hurt myself in anyway, i like other people to do it....

And the part of me that has seen Fight Club too many times (because Brad Pitt looks funny in a fluffy bathrobe, that's why) gives the last question a vagrant twist and says "Is this particular kind of self-destruction really self-realization?"
it gives me pleasure i like it alot but what makes me happy is the person that does it not the act itself...

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 14

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 12:21:12 PM

pyroaquatic

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From: Pyroaquatica
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Dear Orpheus,

Masochism leads to Adrenaline. The Hormones Lead into Headspace.

I'd liken that to a zen in the moment and movement of.... Whatever you believe.

===

I used to be a Self-Abusing Masochist. It is not fun and I have no idea why I went that path.

I've only achieved that Headspace Twice. It felt as if I was rushing back into my body.

Would I like more? Yes, as long as it is safe and I can trust my partner to do the same for both of us.

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to OrpheusAgonistes)

Post #: 15

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 1:18:55 PM

Wheldrake

Posts: 477
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I see desires of any kind as afflictions only if leaving them unfulfilled is psychologically troubling AND fulfilling them is prohibitively difficult or else problematic in a practical sense. I do have strong masochistic urges, although they're more about wanting to suffer at the hands of a suitable person than wanting to experience pain per se. I guess I might consider my masochism to be an affliction if I felt an overwhelming desire to be tortured beyond the limits of physical safety, or if it became such an obsession that it was interfering with the rest of my life. But since my masochism is well within those boundaries, I just accept it as a part of my personality, kind of like my occasional need for long, solitary walks. I don't see wanting to suffer as wrong or destructive in itself. After all, it's just a specialised form of the hunger for adventure and experience.

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

Post #: 16

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 8:52:33 PM

afkarr

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Joined: 1/13/2010
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It's an affliction that only a good ass beating will cure.

Seriously, I gave up trying to self analyze, because it only frustrated me, as I can't pin point any paticular reason I should be this way. I've jus accepted that I'm a freak, figured out how to find a compatible freak from the other side, and how to work our mutual freakiness into real life in a way that works for us. Beyond that, the whys are pretty irrelevant to me.

(in reply to Wheldrake)

Post #: 17

RE: Is masochism an affliction? Are you looking for a ... - 4/12/2010 9:57:51 PM

LPslittleclip

Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
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i am a masso slave and no i dont want to be cured. im very happy with the beatings thank you very much. for my Mistress and i the beatings are a part of O/our life and it is just as importaint that Mistress needs of beating someone are met as well as mine are to be beaten.

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LadyPact

(in reply to afkarr)

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