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CynthiaWVirginia -> RE: Raising children? (4/18/2010 5:50:54 PM)

Some problems I've run into with that takes a villiage to raise a child thing...other parents won't let anyone say one thing out of line about their children, even when you've gone to them in private and have tried to be as kind and polite as possible when breaking the news. 

If you witnessed their child slashing someone's tires, and told the parent so the parent could discipline their own child, so they could go to the victim and offer to replace or repair the tires...the parent would go berzerk, screaming that their child would never do such a thing (even if you had photographic evidence). 

This is not the good old days anymore, when others could rely on parents to handle their children, we have to turn to the police instead or suffer the many consequences of merely letting a parent know what their kid has been up to. 

The other problem I ran into was EVERYBODY telling me to let children be, give them endless freedom, no supervision, because everything will be okay if they have lots of "peer group only" friends and if they were allowed to "follow their heart".  Most of the parents who told me this...were telling me how to train my son so that their children would stop beating the H out of him.  They took no responsibility for teaching their own children morals, so in the end I was forced to resort to police and pressing charges, and to homeschooling to literally save my child's life.  He wanted to die because of all the abuse he was having to live with in school...he was only in third grade and I almost lost him.

These other kids...<wide evil grin>...I hear from friends who report gossip, and I hear of all the jail time, teenaged pregnancies, drugs, alcohol...and how few love their parents.  (Okay, so I have also run into a few who are now adults and tell me they detest and despise their parents, and plan to drink champagne and dance on their graves.)

My son, on the other hand, in spite of his disabilities, is a superior human being. [;)]  He has some faults, but I wouldn't trade him for any other kid in the world.  No drug use, no alcohol nor tobacco products, never any trouble with the police, and he's so square that often I wonder if they hadn't switched babies at the hospital and I came home with the wrong one, lol.  We talk about everything, have many things in common, love each other a lot, he's not cynical, not defiant, and he's learning some gentlemanly ways. 

He's affected by autism, isn't on any medication, but his counselor was amazed with how patient and in control of his temper he is.  It took a lot of talking and hard work to do this, and it didn't happen overnight.  I've found that watching movies together and making comments about them are a big help.  He gets to hear my opinion on everything, and watches in amazement when I teach him natural consequences through movies...I'll "predict" a bad consequence and then later, it unfolds.  <grins>

Of course, years ago I had to teach him what to do when he got hot or cold, as well as making sure he was hot or cold first and TELLING him that he was hot or cold, so he'd learn how to make that judgment from experience and be programmed with what to do about it.  Maybe this is something that only the parent of an autistic would have to go through.  I had to start his training when he got off the bus one day with heatstroke, as his rituals weren't flexible enough to allow him to take off his coat if he was on a school bus.  My son had so much of my time and attention, and trainings, that he passes for "normal" in public.  (That's a long way from being diagnosed with early infantile autism.)  I had so much work to do raising my son that I can't imagine why other parents around here crank them out and almost wish to never be alone with theirs.  When they give me these long spiels about freedom, what I really see when in their company is the freedom they want for themselves

I've told my son...what good is it to raise children to be such selfish, greedy, defiant, sassy, unfeeling little beasts so that you count down the days until they're legal adults, so you can finally get rid of them forever and be free again.  (Yes, I also watched Hook with him, repeatedly, and laughed my butt off when Hook went into his tirade about "Why parents hate their children," LOL.)

So my bottom line is...I think all this age segregation of our children is harming their development.  They should have friends who are a lot older and a lot younger than they are, so they can learn wisdom from more experienced people, and learn some caretaking skills by having to not behave like a peer to someone half their age. 

Enough typing for now, time to watch a movie and play Pokemon with my son.




thornhappy -> RE: Raising children? (4/18/2010 6:10:31 PM)

I really, really, don't recall saying that.  Damn, I remember the old "coke bottle" rape defense, fer crying out loud.
quote:

ORIGINAL: couldbemage

Thank you!

The world is so much safer and kinder now...

A racist prank? Bad... But in the "good old days" it would have been a lynching.

A rape. Back in the day, it wasn't rape if the girl hadn't gotten the shit beat out of her.

Good old days weren't good.

Kids these days are whiny pussys. Not out of control hooligans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

I also think there're a few other reasons - we hear about it more due to more widespread media, and there are a hell of a lot more people around than when "we" were kids.

I'm 51 - when I was growing up there were neglected kids, abused kids, kids that killed themselves, kids that tried to but failed, kids that killed others while drunk driving, families with terrible reputations.... but now we hear about allllll sorts of cases, not just the ones in our immediate area.

(Remember that the kids of the '60s were raised by WWII vets.)







Aylee -> RE: Raising children? (4/18/2010 6:24:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia

I had so much work to do raising my son that I can't imagine why other parents around here crank them out and almost wish to never be alone with theirs.  When they give me these long spiels about freedom, what I really see when in their company is the freedom they want for themselves


This is what gets me.  I have a child because I WANTED one.  I do not try and dream up all sorts of ways to be able to do "adult things" and foist her off on other caretakers.  Plans and family things are done taking her into account. 

I know people that send their children off to the grandparents for every school holiday.  This confuses me.  Why would you have children and then send them off like that? 





slvemike4u -> RE: Raising children? (4/18/2010 6:33:17 PM)

Oh boy I have to agree with that,I stayed in a miserable marriage because I couldn't imagine not saying goodnight and goodmorning on a daily basis....
Than when the marriage falls apart(finally) she askes me to take him.....oh glory days.....why didn't she say that 3 years earlier.....LOL.




tazzygirl -> RE: Raising children? (4/18/2010 9:29:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

You obviously misunderstood my post then.

I'll try again. I think that media blows a lot of this out of proportion. I don't think parents are better or worse than they have ever been.

- LA



I disagree. Parents are worse, in many cases. Having listened to quite a few in L&D over the years, as well as my sons friends, ect, many have the idea that their child wont "take any crap from anyone". Its no longer raising them to be responsible... they are being raised to do unto others first. Is this all parents? Nope. And its mostly prevelant among younger parents, especially teenage ones. And, if you flip to TV shows like My Sweet Sixteen, most reality shows featuring familes (Housewives of any city.. lol) as well as Super Nanny (god, i love that woman), you can see exactly what im speaking of.




stella41b -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 12:48:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika



I'll try again. I think that media blows a lot of this out of proportion. I don't think parents are better or worse than they have ever been.

- LA



I disagree. Parents are worse, in many cases. Having listened to quite a few in L&D over the years, as well as my sons friends, ect, many have the idea that their child wont "take any crap from anyone". Its no longer raising them to be responsible... they are being raised to do unto others first. Is this all parents? Nope. And its mostly prevelant among younger parents, especially teenage ones. And, if you flip to TV shows like My Sweet Sixteen, most reality shows featuring familes (Housewives of any city.. lol) as well as Super Nanny (god, i love that woman), you can see exactly what im speaking of.


This might seem an oxymoron, but take it from me that reality TV isn't indicative of any reality at all. Certainly not the reality found in society.

The only thing reality TV is indicative of is celebrity culture which convinces the untrained and sometimes uneducated that they're 'stars' on a par with the trained and educated.

These people featured on reality TV shows, who make up those families such as on Super Nanny aren't real people or real families, but made up from people who pay to have profiles registered on 'talent' websites such as Starnow who get paid to appear in shows pretending to be 'real' people.

Put another way, these aren't real dysfunctional parents, but people who pretend to be dysfunctional parents on TV so that they might be 'noticed' and become famous and rich.

But you'd be surprised at the number of people who fall for this and really believe they're real people.




LadyAngelika -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 4:41:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I disagree. Parents are worse, in many cases.


And you base this opinion on your personal experience? That is not an authority. Do you have some real data to back up such a statement?

FYI, you might want to read up a little about Moral Panic: http://www.mediaknowall.com/violence/moralpanicnotes.html

- LA




LadyAngelika -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 4:46:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
This might seem an oxymoron, but take it from me that reality TV isn't indicative of any reality at all. Certainly not the reality found in society.

The only thing reality TV is indicative of is celebrity culture which convinces the untrained and sometimes uneducated that they're 'stars' on a par with the trained and educated.

These people featured on reality TV shows, who make up those families such as on Super Nanny aren't real people or real families, but made up from people who pay to have profiles registered on 'talent' websites such as Starnow who get paid to appear in shows pretending to be 'real' people.

Put another way, these aren't real dysfunctional parents, but people who pretend to be dysfunctional parents on TV so that they might be 'noticed' and become famous and rich.

But you'd be surprised at the number of people who fall for this and really believe they're real people.


Thanks for this input stella. I consider Reality TV as one of the main contributors of maintaining the dumbing down of our civilisation. You would figure with the arrival of access to information through means like the Internet that people would become more informed but somehow, some keep finding ways to keep the masses ignorant, rendering them incapable of understanding the difference between real and staged any more.

- LA




sirsholly -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 4:49:43 AM)

quote:

I know people that send their children off to the grandparents for every school holiday. This confuses me. Why would you have children and then send them off like that?
There are people out there that have "babies" as opposed to "children".

Babies are cute and cuddly. When you put them down you will find them in the same place you left them. They do not talk and therefore do not challenge and argue with every word that comes out of your mouth. They do not look at what you prepared for dinner and bellow "Bleeeeech!", then bellow even louder when you told them they liked it the last time you made it. Babies do not care what they wear. An older child will argue about their wardrobe until you pull a power play and dress them in the offensive article only to find them stark naked 10 minutes later.
It is the easiest thing in the world to pick up a baby for a hug and a snuggle. It is not so easy to hug a toddler after a day of cleaning Spaghetti off of the walls. Babies travel well. You can really take them anywhere within reason. Toddlers are a pain in the butt in most social situations and are, quite frankly, annoying to others who have no desire to play endless rounds of Peek-A-Boo. As an adult in an adult gathering, someones child is not nearly as cute as the parents want to think. Pay a sitter.

Caring for a baby is easy for the most part. Caring for a child is frustrating, trying, and the biggest test of patience we will ever face.
A baby requires a nurturer. A child requires a parent. That fact means a lot of them are shipped off to Grandmas.




tazzygirl -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 5:21:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika



I'll try again. I think that media blows a lot of this out of proportion. I don't think parents are better or worse than they have ever been.

- LA



I disagree. Parents are worse, in many cases. Having listened to quite a few in L&D over the years, as well as my sons friends, ect, many have the idea that their child wont "take any crap from anyone". Its no longer raising them to be responsible... they are being raised to do unto others first. Is this all parents? Nope. And its mostly prevelant among younger parents, especially teenage ones. And, if you flip to TV shows like My Sweet Sixteen, most reality shows featuring familes (Housewives of any city.. lol) as well as Super Nanny (god, i love that woman), you can see exactly what im speaking of.


This might seem an oxymoron, but take it from me that reality TV isn't indicative of any reality at all. Certainly not the reality found in society.

The only thing reality TV is indicative of is celebrity culture which convinces the untrained and sometimes uneducated that they're 'stars' on a par with the trained and educated.

These people featured on reality TV shows, who make up those families such as on Super Nanny aren't real people or real families, but made up from people who pay to have profiles registered on 'talent' websites such as Starnow who get paid to appear in shows pretending to be 'real' people.

Put another way, these aren't real dysfunctional parents, but people who pretend to be dysfunctional parents on TV so that they might be 'noticed' and become famous and rich.

But you'd be surprised at the number of people who fall for this and really believe they're real people.


While the adults may play, the children do not. lol i actually knew one of the familes on Nanny... and they were exactly as they were portrayed.





tazzygirl -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 5:42:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I disagree. Parents are worse, in many cases.


And you base this opinion on your personal experience? That is not an authority. Do you have some real data to back up such a statement?

FYI, you might want to read up a little about Moral Panic: http://www.mediaknowall.com/violence/moralpanicnotes.html

- LA



Mean Girls Get Meaner

Troubling statistics reveal that our new American girl is becoming as prone to violent behavior as boys. Want proof? Read on:


Twenty years ago roughly ten boys were arrested for assault for every one girl. That ratio is now four to one.
Girls in gangs are just as likely to participate in beatings as boys.
U.S. Department of Justice shows that in 1990 one in 50 juvenile arrests for all crimes is a girl. In 2003 one in three juvenile arrests for violent crimes is a girl.
More than one in every four teens aged 13 to 15 who are arrested for aggravated assault is a girl.
But even more disturbing: The greatest increase in overall percentages of violent crime arrests is among younger girls.


http://micheleborba.ivillage.com/parenting/archives/2008/04/mean-girls-get-meaner.html

Do you have another theory as to why this is happening? And this is just one Dr, one finding. Google for more.

Permissiveness: angry parents, unhappy kids
When parents get unhappy results from too much permissiveness, it is not so much because they demand too little, though this is part of it. It is more because they are timid or guilty about what they ask or because they are unconsciously encouraging the child to rule the roost.

If parents are too hesitant in asking for reasonable behavior--because they have misunderstood theories of self-expression, because they are self-sacrificing by nature, or because they are afraid of making their children dislike them--they can't help resenting the bad behavior that comes instead. They keep getting angry underneath without really knowing what to do about it.

This bothers their children too. It is apt to make them feel guilty and scared, but it also makes them meaner and all the more demanding. If, for example, babies acquire a taste for staying up in the evening and the parents are afraid to deny them this pleasure, they may turn into disagreeable tyrants who keep their mothers and fathers awake for hours.

Parents are bound to dislike them for their tyranny. If parents can learn to be firm and consistent in their expectations, it's amazing how fast the children will sweeten up and the parents will, too.

In other words, parents can't feel right toward their children in the long run unless they can make them behave reasonably, and children can't be happy unless they are behaving reasonably.


http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,3928,00.html

This is mine.




stella41b -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 5:48:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

While the adults may play, the children do not. lol i actually knew one of the familes on Nanny... and they were exactly as they were portrayed.



So you've never heard of a child actor? I actually work in the industry and I use such sites as Starnow for casting calls. Each applicant, and I can receive literally hundreds for each role, lists their credits, including reality TV credits.

But okay, you're entitled to your opinions and to think what you think. Please don't let me stop you.




tazzygirl -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 6:05:32 AM)

Perhaps the industry has jaded you into that belief. I know of familes just that bad, children ruling the roost, parents afraid, or unable, to begin to control the behaviors they, themselves, instilled.

Im off to work. Will continue this tonight. Have a great day, stella [:D]




sirsholly -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 7:00:32 AM)

quote:

I know of familes just that bad, children ruling the roost, parents afraid, or unable, to begin to control the behaviors they, themselves, instilled.
i see the problem as "begin to control". If the parent exerts no authority when the kid is young, there is no way in hell the child will accept the authority of the parent when they are older.




cpK69 -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 7:48:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


your thoughts?


Pretty much the same old, same old. Things like:

“Your opinion matters more than truth or balance”

“Hate those not like you”

“Win; any way you can”

Not that this is what they are being told, but that it is what they are shown. Though, the problem is not secluded to the parents input.

The difference between ‘now and then’ is that technology has allowed for more opportunity and greater means.

Kids will be kids; of all generations.

Kim




allthatjaz -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 8:20:06 AM)



My parents and my grandparents taught me the most valuable lesson in life and that was how 'NOT' to parent my children.
Whenever I hear about new parenting being bad parenting I think about the way I was brought up.
There is a huge difference between bad parenting and ignorant parenting.
I think its sad that people are under so much pressure to continually ladder climb and improve their quality of life.
I think its equally sad that so many households are now in serious debt because all this consumerist bollocks has brain washed them into believing they 'must have' and their children must have. Its sadder still that our children are being brought up in such a materialistic world and are under huge pressure from their pier groups to dress like them, to have the latest computer gadget or mobile phone.
Children today go to school where the teachers have little authority. They come home to empty houses because their parents have to work. Grandparents and other relatives often live 100s of miles away and parents feel guilty for not spending quality time with their kids and so replace that time with material things.
None of this means that these kids aren't loved, it just means we live in a changing world where the pressure for parents is much greater.
When I had my children the consumer pressure was starting but it was nothing like it is now. I enjoyed motherhood, I still do but I'm glad I didn't have to do it 20 years later than I did.





Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 9:02:32 AM)

I'm not tazzy, but my mom when we needed spankings would take us out of view of the public, or back then it was ok to spank, she'd spank us right there in front of people and embarrass the shit out of us.

My friend is a mom, and she takes her daughter somewhere private when Sarah starts acting up and needs more than a quiet hush up. Other wise she has absolutely no problem telling Sarah in public you're out of line and you better get your tushy back in line. Sarah is only 3 and isn't embarrassed at all as far as I know. In fact if it's any one who's embarrassed it's my friend when her daughter starts acting up. Because then people stare and watch her dealing with her kid.
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Let me throw another question out there,and if you feel this is a hijack tazzy I apologise for it.What is the opinion of a parent who finds it necessary to deliver that swat in the local departement or grocery store?
How about the parent wh finds themselves in the position of delivering a verbal tongue lashing in publick?




LaTigresse -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 9:09:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

We can take that statement 'some people shouldn't be parents'. I ask again, like who for example? Are there any of you out there prepared to give me a concrete example of someone they feel shouldn't be a parent? Just one example?



Yes I can give several examples.

I really do not care if my point of view is seen as wrong. I firmly believe there are people that are not fit to be parents. I applaud each and every one that is aware of the fact, and avoids becoming a parent.




Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 9:11:29 AM)

Those who had  kids then severely abused them or damn near killed them, or did kill them. People who're not equipped to care for themselves let alone a helpless minor. People like my Aunt Mindy who locked her kids in the bedroom for entire days on end cause she didn't want to deal with them. And no, I am not exaggerating. Her kids were literally locked into the room.

My Biological parents, were people who didn't need or deserve kids,  My brother and I were tortured and abused horrendously by our birth mom and my birth father was a child rapist, who was in prison for raping a child. and CPS had to take us from them or my mom would of killed me. I was severely malnourished had burn marks all over my little body,, as well as other horrors and they had no doubt I would of died if CPS didn't find me and my brother's situation when they did.

I'm not stronger or better or any crap for having gone through 2 families that abused me for my entire life. Except maybe for the fact  I know I am likely to abuse any kids I ever have since I was severely abused, and I see the ability in  myself to be an abuser, and have abused people in my life,* no not kids my partner* and I am only glad I know that now when I am young and I have plenty of time to work that out.


My adopted mom only knew abuse her whole life, and so she thought that was how you raised kids, slapping them in the face, telling them to go to hell, telling them they're ungrateful brats, allowing those closest to the kids to molest the kids cause she was molested herself, and grew up thinking that's just what happened.
in fact her first child is a product of rape by an uncle.

She never knew to get help or change her thinking, so she passed on a life time of mis treatment to us.
Not every one needs kids or should have them, and it may sound horrible, but it's true.
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b


quote:

ORIGINAL: blueeyedbbwsub

Some so-called parents should never have been allowed to have children in the first place.



Like who for example?

It's this way of thinking which led to the popularity of Hitler and the Nazi Party and the Holocaust.





DarlingSavage -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 11:19:14 AM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDPPnbv8uT0

On violent and nonviolent primitive societies. Initially, I was looking for a video I saw some time ago on a study between 2 species of monkeys. One specie is very loving and expressive of physical affection to their children. The other specie is very abusive towards offspring. This video discusses societal violence and briefly discusses the cycle of child abuse, also discusses how the prison system exacerbates violence in society.




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