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Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 5:05:20 AM

nonuts4thshoney

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i've heard of something called Top's Disease. What eactly does this mean? How would someone behave with Top's Disease?

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 6:28:42 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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It's someone who has gotten it into their head "I"m a top/dom/master and therefore am god!!! I will act pompous and no one shall question my fabulousness lest they face the wrath of me! Bow to me insolent slave!"

Basically it's an ego trip from a power rush.

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 6:54:54 AM

nonuts4thshoney

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

It's someone who has gotten it into their head "I"m a top/dom/master and therefore am god!!! I will act pompous and no one shall question my fabulousness lest they face the wrath of me! Bow to me insolent slave!"

Basically it's an ego trip from a power rush.

Interesting. Do they tend to believe that they do no wrong doing at all? Do they sometimes end up mentally or physically abusing their subs/slaves? Do they come to this conclusion that a slave/sub is just that and it doesn't matter what they want to the point that ?
Also, is this most common with a newbie or does it happen later in a lifestyler as well? And, (i'm so full of questions..lol) How long does this typically last before they realize what they are doing?

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 6:59:24 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney
Do they tend to believe that they do no wrong doing at all?

They are the dom, how could they be doing anything wrong?

quote:

Do they sometimes end up mentally or physically abusing their subs/slaves?

Sometimes. More often they just act like an asshole. This is often related to the "Rock Star Dom" symdrome and can rarely hold a relationship for more than 6 months.

quote:

Do they come to this conclusion that a slave/sub is just that and it doesn't matter what they want to the point that ?

It's usually not that bad, it's more of a "Oh I just decided I want this, now get it for me!" mixed with a serious attitude of "I'm hot stuff."

quote:

Also, is this most common with a newbie or does it happen later in a lifestyler as well?

It's more common with a newbie, but not always. A dom who is experienced but new to having multiple slaves often goes through it as well- kid in a candy store/need to assert my place as head of the household sort of thing.

quote:

How long does this typically last before they realize what they are doing?

Part of that depends on how self-aware they are, part of that depends on how their partners smack them on the head about it, and part of that depends on their ego.

Sometimes they never learn. Sometimes it takes about 2 years. Sometimes it takes only one little cute slave girl looking them in the eye and saying "You have no clue what you're doing and everyone knows it."

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 11:34:37 AM

maybemaybenot

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Here is a link to FRR Mallory's definition:

http://www.steel-door.com/tops_disease.htm

mbmbn

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When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 12:47:29 PM

Sensualips

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I typically thing of it more as Tross described, rather than in terms of being abusive or unsafe or not valuing their partner as described in that article. For me the connotation is a Dom of either gender that thinks s/he is really hot shit. Someone caught up in being soooo very domly and really power tripping, usually fed by the worshipful gaze of a submissive or submissives. The inflated ego leads to them having bouts of stupid behavior, to varying degrees. I don't usually mean evil or corrupt. It was interesting for me to read that and see that is how others may be using it.

In mild forms, Top's Disease is amusing to me to watch. Then it eventually crosses over into annoying. I admit a I have a gender bias in this area. I really get agitated about it in females. With males, depending on the person and the degree, I find it a little attractive. I think it is both the fun of messing with him a little as well as the challenge. Don't tell my therapist.

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 2:29:47 PM

Dustyn

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I think that I might be having this problem, but I will be damned if I know how to change it. Any suggestions?

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 2:58:05 PM

nonuts4thshoney

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

I think that I might be having this problem, but I will be damned if I know how to change it. Any suggestions?

i checked out the link that maybemaybenot posted above (great link by the way)and found these parts to be very interesting. Are you experiencing what's stated below? If so, or if it's something else, how did you come to realize you may have this problem? Has someone pointed it out to you or have you just noticed the change within yourself? And bravo to you for even realizing something isn't right and asking for help =)

---------------

If a Dominant is not empathetically connected to a submissive or slave, or is not able to feel or sense where that submissive/slave is mentally, they will begin to make mistakes or errors in judgment which can propel them over the threshold of consent. Tops Disease can and does lead to verbal, mental, emotional and eventually physical abuse against submissive/slaves. It 'turns' or 'corrupts' a Dominant from being or expressing their Dominance in a reasoned loving and healthy way into victimizing those they are with to the point of becoming an abuser.

When a Dominant becomes corrupt their judgment is impaired. They tend to believe they are elevated in status and worth by virtue of being dominant over one or more individuals. In addition they may elect to view a submissive or slave as a being of little value or worth, of diminished importance or in truth from an objectified perspective. Such a devaluation is extremely dangerous for and submissive or slave dealing with a Dominant in this condition. By seeing another human being as 'discardable' the Dominant no longer has a focused concern on the safety, mental and physical health and welfare of that submissive or slave.

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 3:09:17 PM

Whiterabbit0117

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Recognizing that you may be acting like an ass is usually the first step toward recovery. As has been noted, some get the wake up call by being called on their attitude, but those badly infected will usually determine that the problem had to be with the other person, not themselves. A more frequent wake up call is observing the behavior in someone else, being offended, and then doing the introspective, "I don't act that way, do I?" Going back and reading your own posts or chat logs can also be an eye opener.

Talking to others is usually the second step. Other Doms who know you and have seen you interact with subs/slaves and others, who you trust to give you honest feedback, are a great resource. "Lord John, have I been acting like an arrogant, pompous, know it all jackass?" Subs can also give you good feedback, especially if not collared to you. In many cases your own sub/slave may accept your behavior (for awhile).

The correct term for one who has changed their way is recovering, not cured, it is too easy to start back down the slippery slope.

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 3:22:07 PM

nonuts4thshoney

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i find this subject very interesting. i wonder if this primarily happens because one doesnt have a mentor, learns on their own or maybe they have had a poor mentor? Is there anything that can prevent this from happening to a Top/Dom/Domme/Dominant?

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 3:37:32 PM

Whiterabbit0117

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Assuming the mentor isn't infected, a good mentor can go a long ways towards appropriate teaching and attittudes of the protege. I have seen pompous jerks teach others to be pompous jerks, however I believe the student selected the teacher based on their own belief of how a Dom should act..

Being active in lifestyle groups or attending regional events are good ways to observe a range of behaviors. Once you are aware of the symptoms it is easy to tell those infected. A little attention will also identify the other common Dom(me) behavior styles.

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 3:38:09 PM

fastlane

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It is the personality of the Top. He would be that way...anyway. An egotistical Arse!
It is however cureable....laugh at him. That makes the weiner shrink and the Ego deflate.
Atleast it made my Ego deflate....but strike the weiner thig a majig I said, in retrospect it had no affect on mine, actually made it harder, if you can imagine that?

Peace, Kevin

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/6/2006 10:17:28 PM

Dustyn

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Let's just say that things started clicking into place in my head.

Been trying for a few days to figure out why a relationship that I thought was progressing nicely suddenly turned into a veritable shitstorm. I knew some of the problem was my fault exclusively, but I couldn't figure for the life of me why it had happened.

As I put it in another post on a different thread, I have an ego the size of New York and the arrogance to power it indefinately. While there are times that my ego does land me in a bad position, it's also helped me out in several ways, too. For starters, while not being the best solution, it makes up greatly for a severe shortage of self-esteem on my part.

Normally, my ego just makes my ass overload my mouth and with guys, hey, a few punches and a couple of beers, and usually things are worked out. My ego has never been a problem with women because I have, somehow, managed to have relationships with purely submissive women and the ego and arrogance is something they want in a dominant. This, however, is not the case with a switch, as I am very painfully discovering at this late date in my life.

She's involved with something that she has years of schooling in, and, well... I opened my mouth and the foot just flew.

How does that line from Top Gun go again?

"Son, your ego is writing checks your body can't cash." Sounds right.

So now I'm sitting here, marvelling that I didn't even see myself doing it. SO many other relationships were influencing this one that it's amazing I could even keep her name straight. I was looking for all the wrong triggers and what not like that and now my ego is scrambling to pay a check it signed over.

I was so far off base as a dominant that I'm even wondering if I really deserve the right to call myself that at this late stage of the game. I was a massively pompous ass. And last, but certainly not least, without intending it, I came as close to mocking what she wants to do for a living as a person could get without outright mocking it. Really fucking piss poor actions and attitudes on my part. It also made me realize that I am very possibly a switch, in that I need someone to tell me when my ego is writing bad checks again.

Personally, I'd really like it if she was willing to do that, but I think I have made way too much of a mare's nest out of this whole thing. And what stinks the most is she is/was (hell, who knows) a really good friend that I loved hanging out with above anything else.

Boy, when I screw something up, I really screw it up good, though.

Whoever posted the link to steel-door, I do owe you a debt of graditude, to an extent. I was looking in the wrong direction for an answer that wasn't there in the first place. Knew I should have tried asking CC what she thought of the whole screwy situation in the first place. Ah well, live and learn, I suppose. I've got the living part down pretty well, but I'm still have troubles from time to time with this whole learning thing. Gotta remember to work on that.

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 3:39:16 AM

SimplyV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney

i find this subject very interesting. i wonder if this primarily happens because one doesnt have a mentor, learns on their own or maybe they have had a poor mentor? Is there anything that can prevent this from happening to a Top/Dom/Domme/Dominant?

There are many reasons a Top/Dominant might get this "disease".. usually its from within themselves, a matter of selfishness overriding common sense. A matter of not being connected within themselves to whats going on around them. Much like a child in a candy store, suddenly being in charge of the store.

Or at least thats what I've seen. Mostly I've seen this with "Dominants" who aren't really dominant but for selfish reasons demand to be one. Usually such a Dominant is over compensating (usually they're submissive [or switch] internally, but refuse to accept it as they consider submissive to be weak) for what they percieve as an internal weakness. So they develope more EGO to hide or distract others from the "weakness" in them. Usually they are only fooling themselves.

But thats just my take on it.

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 3:44:30 AM

SimplyV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

I was so far off base as a dominant that I'm even wondering if I really deserve the right to call myself that at this late stage of the game. I was a massively pompous ass. And last, but certainly not least, without intending it, I came as close to mocking what she wants to do for a living as a person could get without outright mocking it. Really fucking piss poor actions and attitudes on my part. It also made me realize that I am very possibly a switch, in that I need someone to tell me when my ego is writing bad checks again.

Admitting and recognizing the problem is the first step to solving it. Oh and as you've noticed.. I have no problems punching at your ego, should you need to be reminded again. jk.

Keep up the introspection. I'm sure you'll find the truth of you in there somewhere.

V

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 4:24:32 AM

nonuts4thshoney

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OK so i'm reading all of this and another question comes to mind. How about the reactions to a subs/slaves physical and mental wellbeing? Does "Top's Disease" affect their reaction when a sub/slave asks for help? For example if a sub/slave were to say " i'm not doing well mentally and/or physically, i need help" How might one with "Top's Disease" react to this?

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 4:53:47 AM

KatyLied

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quote:

I've seen this with "Dominants" who aren't really dominant but for selfish reasons demand to be one.

This is also common with Dom/Masters who insist on labeling themselves in that manner (as Dom/Master), when what they truly are is a Top. Nothing wrong with being a Top, but please don't identify as something you aren't. A Top isn't going to be interested in much domination beyond kinky sex. A Dom/Master will be more likely to take on broader issues and be more into the entire D/s aspect of the relationship.

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 4:55:27 AM

SimplyV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney

OK so i'm reading all of this and another question comes to mind. How about the reactions to a subs/slaves physical and mental wellbeing? Does "Top's Disease" affect their reaction when a sub/slave asks for help? For example if a sub/slave were to say " i'm not doing well mentally and/or physically, i need help" How might one with "Top's Disease" react to this?

You want the really infected reply?

"Who are you to be thinking (feeling)? What right do you have? You are doing just fine, because I say you are, thus it is so. Now get up and fetch me some coffee, you worthless slave."

*giggles* jk.. kinda

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 4:59:33 AM

nonuts4thshoney

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyV

quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney

OK so i'm reading all of this and another question comes to mind. How about the reactions to a subs/slaves physical and mental wellbeing? Does "Top's Disease" affect their reaction when a sub/slave asks for help? For example if a sub/slave were to say " i'm not doing well mentally and/or physically, i need help" How might one with "Top's Disease" react to this?

You want the really infected reply?

"Who are you to be thinking (feeling)? What right do you have? You are doing just fine, because I say you are, thus it is so. Now get up and fetch me some coffee, you worthless slave."

*giggles* jk.. kinda

LMFAO!!! yes and this is because they would refuse to believe the sub/slave has any problem right? They have disregard for their wellbeing.

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RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 5:15:24 AM

SimplyV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney
LMFAO!!! yes and this is because they would refuse to believe the sub/slave has any problem right? They have disregard for their wellbeing.

K.. see if the sub has a problem.. then that means THEY have a problem.. and since the Dominant is all powerful.. there can be no problems. Thus there is no problem.

There are various degrees of infection in my mind anyway..

In certain cases.. If the sub has a problem like "That guy over there called me a name".. then by all means the Dominant will hear that problem because they can "show" how powerful they are by "solving" it.

However, when it comes to a problem with the relationship or inconviencing the Dominant in any way.. or if acknowledging the problem would reveal or require the Dominant to admit having a flaw, then it is no longer heard or a concern for the Dominant. If it is heard at all, it must then be a failure in the submissive as the Dominant is perfection personified.

Ex.
sub - "Can we talk? I just don't feel like I'm getting what I need out of this anymore."
Dom/me - "What you need is what I say you need. If you're not happy, its because you choose not to be happy. You're just not submissive enough. Fetch my whip. I'll teach you what submission means."

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