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BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 11:31:46 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		We had a very interesting discussion last night at a Munch regarding this topic. Is sex ALWAYS a part of your BDSM activity? Do you attend clubs or other public lifestyle functions at places that expressly forbid sex or any direct genital contact? If so, how do you deal with that? beth points out that she, and most women, gets to 'cheat' because their orgasms can be achieved without being so obvious. So how many of you 'cheat'?????




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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 11:35:47 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Sex is not always part of our playtime. When we host an event anything insertable anywhere is forbidden. We just had a lengthy discussion about this after our last munch On Saturday as well. Planning next month's party.

To me the lifestyle is not about sex. It is about control. You can control people in many ways. Doesn't need to be sexual.

However, I am in a relationship with my Dominant so sex does come into play. Maybe 60% of the time I'd say.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 11:56:31 AM   
ScorpioMaster


Posts: 146
Joined: 3/30/2004
Status: offline 		If you have seen some of the ladies achieving an orgasm after they were flogged was not so obvious. They can be real screamers but I would contend we use methods that are part of the sexual experience. The whole mind, body, and imagination are part of the sexual arousal. We create that illusion and sexual tension so the person can achieve an orgasm by letting it to build slowly until they can not handle it. Remember according to Clinton giving a BJ is not sex.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 12:20:39 PM   
MaitresseEden


Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline 		ok.. I'm disagreeing here. It is all About sexuality to me. I love sexual and sadistic control and torture. One of the complaints I hear most often is well he/she beat me to a pulp.. and I took it to please them but I just wanted them to touch me afterwards.. or. Why can't they make the sex hurt too. To me.. so much of the SM is about sex. For me personally I despise the typical "rack em and smack em" mindset that you often see. It is much more intense to have someone begging to cum, or begging to touch you, and please you whilst they suffer in agony than it is to make hamburger meat out of their backside. Anyway.. I know I know.. to each his/her own. But if I could penetrate something at a party, I wouldn't waste my time going, because I would not be able to play the way I enjoy. Be it having my subs please me, or me useing my subs for my enjoyment, or letting their pain and suffering in climaxing be everyone elses entertainment.

just my .02

Ms. Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 12:29:43 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Its all about sexuality which is Concern with or interest in sexual activity. but it has nothing do with sexual congress: the act of sexual procreation between a man and a woman; the man's penis is inserted into the woman's vagina and excited until orgasm and ejaculation occur

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 12:35:26 PM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

beth points out that she, and most women, gets to 'cheat' because their orgasms can be achieved without being so obvious. So how many of you 'cheat'?????

Cheat be damned *lol*, when I was subbing at public events it was clear to the whole room what had just happened. It is very common at the play parties I go to that fem subs are having an orgasm without any insertion, penetration or genital manipulation.

sub males, I know it isn't fair, but that is the price for having your plumbing on the outside.

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 12:46:54 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Lady,
You ladies have all the fun. *lol*
Forget just the sub males - NO FAIR! - NO FAIR!! For us Masters either!

Merc

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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 12:54:38 PM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Lady,
You ladies have all the fun. *lol*
Forget just the sub males - NO FAIR! - NO FAIR!! For us Masters either!

Merc

Ever wonder how many Dommes are having an orgasm from working their subs? Hey there has to be some compensation for having to do hair, nails (fingers & toes), shaving or depiliating most of the body, wearing high heels etc. And don't forget, males can be dressed and ready in a matter of minutes, we have to do our makeup and don fet wear, which sometimes requires a winch if you are into corset training and want it hourglass figure tight. I give myself at least an hour (not including showering & drying my long hair), so those nice perks like being able to orgasm anywhere, anytime is just our reward for the trouble we go to.

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 1:45:05 PM   
strongnsubmissiv


Posts: 197
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin

Ever wonder how many Dommes are having an orgasm from working their subs? Hey there has to be some compensation for having to do hair, nails (fingers & toes), shaving or depiliating most of the body, wearing high heels etc. And don't forget, males can be dressed and ready in a matter of minutes, we have to do our makeup and don fet wear, which sometimes requires a winch if you are into corset training and want it hourglass figure tight. I give myself at least an hour (not including showering & drying my long hair), so those nice perks like being able to orgasm anywhere, anytime is just our reward for the trouble we go to.



Ok Shoshin... i know you and i are local and through a common friend i have heard very nice things about you, but i'm gonna take you to task on this one!

The stresses that come from play party preparation can be equally daunting for a sub male i have to say. For starters, we have selection zero of interesting outfits that we may wear. It seemed to me it's always the same ol same ol, while the women walk around in the latest fun fashions that men will never be able to enjoy. (unless you're a TV but that's another topic.) Then, our choices of what to wear at all is usually left in the hands of the Domme, so there's no chance that i might hide the spare tire, if i'm feeling particularly bloaty that week, because we're usually pretty much naked from the waist up. Then comes the task of tweezing out the odd unsightly hair that has started to grow on our backs that pre 30 year olds will never have to do. Oh and i must not forget the two weeks of being naked on the tanning bed, because when exposing my behind during play, for all to see, nobody should be blinded by it's alabaster colour. All this going on while the Domme flogs us mercilessly, looking great in her leather skirt, hiding her white bum. :P Oh and then there is shoes. Tell me, what male shoe is made today, that matches a pair of tight black leather shorts and a collar, and ins't worn during Oktoberfest? Now God forbid this is a private party, because then it's time to shave and trim down below. An area that unless is shaven on a regular basis, get's attacked two days later with irritated shaving bumps.


So preparation is stressful indeed for we men and it's not as simple as it all looks. Now am i complaining about it all? I hate to admit i love it terribly.

sns

_____________________________

*** Strong and submissive are not contradictions ***

(in reply to LadyShoshin)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 2:15:39 PM   
MaitresseEden


Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline
quote:


The stresses that come from play party preparation can be equally daunting for a sub male i have to say. For starters, we have selection zero of interesting outfits that we may wear. It seemed to me it's always the same ol same ol, while the women walk around in the latest fun fashions that men will never be able to enjoy


You raise some good points.. I prefer my men to dress is all black.. preferrably black dress slacks and a black dress shirt and underneath a black g- string or whatever garmet of my choosing. As for footware. Black boots are sexy as hell, the military ones or cowboy ones. Waxing is something that may have to be done on a regular basis. I agree however that subs spend a great deal of time ( as they should) in preparing for a public gathering. If into feminization I've seen subs wear otherwise normal attire with heels as well. If there is that unsightly to some bulge or spare tire, a silk robe provided it is short so that their package dangles for all to see, or thier bum peaks out may be worn over a g- string.

As for the Sex.. I refuse to punish myself and deny myself sexual pleasure or release and have been accused on more than one occasion or play party of cumming so loudly the DM's had requests to gag the mistress. But the ovation I got afterwards was worth it. <big evil grin> :D I personal think alot of Mistress's are uncomfortable climaxing in front of others.. or so it seems from my point of view. Truth be told, I'm not always comfortable myself it is entirely dependent on the energy of the gathering and the level of comfort I feel with the submissive. But baby if it feels good.. GO FOR IT!

Ms. Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to strongnsubmissiv)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 2:53:17 PM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: strongnsubmissiv

So preparation is stressful indeed for we men and it's not as simple as it all looks. Now am i complaining about it all? I hate to admit i love it terribly.

sns


You are correct, male subs do go through a lot of preperation, but try wearing all leather and high heeled boots while going through what amounts to an aerobic workout for an hour or more (depending on the sub's endurance). *lol*

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to strongnsubmissiv)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 3:02:48 PM   
merlinjim


Posts: 6
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		It's not like I'm a dom because I chose it. I'm a clinical sadist; though I can have vanilla sex, I have problems maintaining an erection and carrying through on the act.

However if I know the woman is in pain I get as erect as I used to when I was going through puberty... and I pretty much can choose the moment of completion (I highly recommend "The Multi-Orgasmic Man" for those interested)

Luckily I am... shall we say well endowed? That makes it pretty easy to cause pain even when in a vanilla relationship...

I'm not hurting a sub for the sake of the pain itself, I'm hurting her for my enjoyment. For me, a scene without sex is the ultimate frustration. And I don't enjoy it when a sub frustrates me...

That said I will go to occasional demos and play parties or whatever, but I've never participated, and don't think I really want to...

(in reply to LadyShoshin)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 5:16:19 PM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: merlinjim

That said I will go to occasional demos and play parties or whatever, but I've never participated, and don't think I really want to...

That is what I love about this lifestyle, you can go to demos & play parties, not actively participate and be respected because that is the way you live your lifestyle. I love public play, but it is not the be all & end all of the lifestyle, it is one aspect.

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to merlinjim)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/15/2004 9:51:52 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

:P Oh and then there is shoes. Tell me, what male shoe is made today, that matches a pair of tight black leather shorts and a collar, and ins't worn during Oktoberfest?


sns


I have always been fond of a pair of shiny combat boots and a pair of dark folded over socks.. now if a boy has a particularly lovely set of calf muscles white folded over socks.. because it draws attention...just my particular fllllallllalllla labous thing.. a man in shiny leather combat boots.. ooh baby...

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to strongnsubmissiv)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/16/2004 2:09:04 AM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		When I first read the subject line, I immediately thought, "Of course there's sex involved". Then, upon further perusal, I realised the question was with or without coitus. Since sex is to me so much more than rubbing a couple tiny bits of flesh together in rhythmic gyrations, I've been in plenty of scense that have had SEX, but no penetration or orgasm per se. I guess the whole topic depends on what your needs are as a sexual person

~S

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/16/2004 4:52:15 AM   
MasterSnowBeard


Posts: 28
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Near Seattle WA
Status: offline

BDSM Play with my partners is always sexual...
I am a very sexual person... and not only connect with my partners sexually
but also involve Tantric connections as well.
Most of the BDSM clubs and Private Parties Do allow Sex and most that I have been to.
I am sure that might vary from region to region. But no one has ever asked Me to
Stop having sex during a scene ... oral or inserted sex while I have been playing.
Namaste
Larry MasterSnowBeard


_____________________________

This lifestlye is base on respect... respect for A/all ..
Without respect there is nothing...

One should never question the power
of a Magickal Long Silver Haired Wizard

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/16/2004 2:39:11 PM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

We had a very interesting discussion last night at a Munch regarding this topic. Is sex ALWAYS a part of your BDSM activity?


Mostly, lately, play doesn't involve sex at all. It may be sexual for either of us, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're being sexual together. Just coz Joe Blow who's flogging me is a getting a woody doesn't mean I am.

quote:


Do you attend clubs or other public lifestyle functions at places that expressly forbid sex or any direct genital contact? If so, how do you deal with that?


I rarely attend clubs that disallow genital contact or full nudity. I much prefer to prance around naked, and have no problem watching oral sex or insertion being performed.

quote:


beth points out that she, and most women, gets to 'cheat' because their orgasms can be achieved without being so obvious. So how many of you 'cheat'?????


I don't cheat at all, because, as mentioned in one of the cumming on command threads, I don't cum easily and it's highly doubtful I'd do so in public.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/16/2004 3:51:21 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Mostly, lately, play doesn't involve sex at all. It may be sexual for either of us, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're being sexual together. Just coz Joe Blow who's flogging me is a getting a woody doesn't mean I am.


This is the comment that the question is really pointed to. I think I just didn't know how to pose it accurately without this type of quote. If a flogging from "Joe Blow" isn't sexual - what is it? The answer that I've heard in the past is that the flogging serves as some sort of catharsis. I heard this most often when I lived and played in NYC from executives who were fiercely dominant in the office and just wanted to 'surrender' and purge themselves as a submissive at a BDSM club. They would never be slaves, but took very hard corporal punishment exclusive of sex. They called it a mental release.

Conversely, if it does become or is sexual, then what? Do you have the ability to "blow out the hot sexual candle"? This is the other side of the coin, and the "Big Debate" at one of the LA Clubs. I have a very HARD time of this (pardon that cheap upper case pun!). It takes a great amount of self control that I really don't want to experience. What's up with that?

Merc

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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/17/2004 9:05:21 AM   
subheart21503


Posts: 7
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline 		For U/us, play is sexual and usually culminates in orgasm for O/one or B/both of U/us. my Husband and i have talked alot about this very question. Although O/our play is sexual in nature, it doesn't always lead to penetration. In those times when play does not include orgasm for U/us, it is still very satisfying. Sometimes, as a sub, i just want the pain and restraint and sometimes that is all He wants to give. It is all dependent on mood.

_____________________________

play hard, play often, play safe.

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RE: BDSM - With or Without Sex? - 9/17/2004 3:27:45 PM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

This is the comment that the question is really pointed to. I think I just didn't know how to pose it accurately without this type of quote. If a flogging from "Joe Blow" isn't sexual - what is it?


It's good fun. I enjoy the experience. With the right person, it could be sexual, but 99% of the time it's just fun.

quote:


Conversely, if it does become or is sexual, then what? Do you have the ability to "blow out the hot sexual candle"? This is the other side of the coin, and the "Big Debate" at one of the LA Clubs. I have a very HARD time of this (pardon that cheap upper case pun!). It takes a great amount of self control that I really don't want to experience. What's up with that?


If I'm playing with someone and happen to get turned on, then I'll be turned on until I'm not anymore, either by doing something about it, or letting it fade away.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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